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  1. #31
    bigredman's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    If Martz is guilty of anything, it's stealing HUbison's heart!


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #32
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    If Martz is guilty of anything, it's stealing HUbison's heart!

    Hearts are overrated, Red.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #33
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Wow. I've been meaning to reply to this thread and now it's been three weeks. Whoops, where does the time go?

    I was just going to chime in on Martz and the running game.

    Here are the years Martz was either an offensive coordinator or a head coach (I excluded 2005 because he was out for much of the season with a heart condition):

    year - rsh att
    1999 - 5th 15th
    2000 - 17th 25th
    2001 - 5th 22nd
    2002 - 30th 32nd
    2003 - 30th 28th
    2004 - 25th 30th
    2006 - 32nd 32nd
    2007 - 31st 32nd

    With Mike Martz, I think the claims that he ignores the run are somewhat exagerrated, but not unfounded. Some of it's circumstantial; Martz had to pass the ball because the defense wasn't good and in Detroit his RBs weren't that good. And when you look at the rushing yards in 1999 and 2001 relative the number of attempts, you can certainly say that even though he didn't run the ball alot, he at least maximized his returns from the running game.

    However, looking at the number of rushing attempts, Martz offenses are clearly pass-oriented. At no point during his tenures as OC and HC did his team rank higher than 15th in rushing attempts. Three times Martz offenses have been dead last in that category, and six times (out of eight!) they've finished in the bottom quarter of the league. I don't think you can pin that all on circumstance. The guy likes to pass the ball.

    I didn't buy him as a quarterback. He's just so stiff, especially when he drops back to pass. Really stiff. He reminds me of Kurt Warner.
    -- Kevan Barlow on Adam Sandler's performance in The Longest Yard

  4. #34
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    I don't happen to agree with the idea that Martz has nothing to work with at WR. Davis, Bruce, Johnson, Lelie and Battle could mesh well under Martz.

    Davis should constantly have mismatches in his favor.
    Bruce will teach the others how to do things. Holt was taught and excelled in his first year in the league and first year under Martz.
    Johnson has questionable hands at times but is a very talented WR.
    Lelie has done some big things in good offenses.
    Battle isn't a world beater but as a depth guy he isn't bad.

    It may not all come together but I think that Martz has plenty to work with. Add to that, teams respect the threat of Gore running the ball. If Smith, Hill or O'Sullivan can "get it" in training camp, I think the niners might have a huge turnaround this year.

  5. #35
    desune! is offline Registered User
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    I'm a ***** fan (no avatar yet) and the player I'm really looking forward to this year on O is Ashley Lelie. All reports state that WR coach Sullivan has been working on him non-stop to get him to improve his route running and it looks as if it is paying off. We all already know he's got blazing speed for the go routes and deep corners/posts etc, but if you assume that Bruce will continue his slow decline, then that leaves Lelie as the only proven threat at WR. I'm hoping for big things.

    As for QB Smith? I think he's by far the most talented QB of the three. To those who think Shaun Hill can replace him, I disagree. Hill looked like he did ok at first glance last season, he led the team to victories against the Bucs and Bengals. The Bengals D was woeful, but the Bucs D was surprisingly bad too, they played their 2nd string for most of the game, in off coverage, and Hill's stats were still fairly poor against them. And this was after Nolan brought in former OC Ted Tollner to *babysit* OC Hostler, a move which just so happened to co-incide with a massive upturn in the Niners offensive production. JT O' Sullivan I know less about, so I'll have to wait and see on him.

    I think Martz is the right guy for the 49er O, although perhaps his particular style of offense isn't 100% suited to the make up of the team, there's no doubt Mike Nolan needed someone who can be handed the keys to offense and left alone for the next year or more. Unfortunately (from my point of view) I can't see the improvement in the O being enough to make us a team to *worry* about, and this is because the O-line just isn't ready. Unless Jennings stays healthy and guards Baas and Snyder can prove to be at least adaquate starters, I expect who ever is QB to be eating a hell of a lot turf.

  6. #36
    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Welcome to the Clan Desune. A couple of questions for you: Why did the Whiners let J. Smiley go, did they not like him? Also, what do you think of J. Staley moving over to LT? Do you think that's his best position?

    WHAT SAY YE?

  7. #37
    desune! is offline Registered User
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Smiley was just a case of him wanting more than the FO wanted to pay. I liked him a lot, he played the most of the '06 season with a torn labrum (a shoulder injury) and he would have fitted in well with the more pass oriented O - certainly better than I expect Baas or Rachal to. Considering how bad our O-line play has been in the Nolan era, I think letting probably our O-lineman over that period go is a step backwards.

    As for Staley, he was drafted to be our LT of the future and now we'll find out whether he can cut it there or not. He didn't blow me away last year, and I was especially concerned with his pass protection in the Browns game at the end of the season, he really isn't a mauler type run blocker though, so LT seems his natural home. I think Jonas Jennings is a better player, although Staley is still only a sophmore and has time to improve, whereas Jennings will only decline and he's never played a full season anyway. Putting Staley at LT and Jennings at RT let's us put our best two tackles on the field.

  8. #38
    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by desune! View Post
    I think letting probably our O-lineman over that period go is a step backwards.
    Did you, perhaps, forget to insert the word "best" between 'our' and 'O'? So you are saying that Smiley is a better player than Baas? If so doesn't make much sense that your FO would not at least slap a transition tag on Smiley and try to get something for him. Do you recall who signed him?

    WHAT SAY YE?

  9. #39
    desune! is offline Registered User
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Did you, perhaps, forget to insert the word "best" between 'our' and 'O'? So you are saying that Smiley is a better player than Baas? If so doesn't make much sense that your FO would not at least slap a transition tag on Smiley and try to get something for him. Do you recall who signed him?

    WHAT SAY YE?
    I did indeed mean to say best. Maybe I subconciously couldn't bring myself to type best to describe Niners O-line play over the past few years *shakes head*

    I think to date in their careers, Smiley has proven to be a better player than Baas. This could be blamed on lack of opportunities for Baas, afterall it's not Baas' fault the Niners signed Larry Allen, pushing Smiley out of his more natural spot at LG, but when you're the 33rd overall pick, you should be good enough to make your own opportunities.

    Even if Baas does emerge as being a similar level player to Smiley he'll probably be a better run blocker than he ever will be a pass protector - perhaps not ideal for the Martz offense. I'm not sure about the transition tag or whatnot, perhaps the FO just said "look he'd obviously rather play somewhere he can get more money, so let's not make it a headache", but like I said I have a lot of a respect for him. He went to Miami about 20 minutes into FA (IE 20 minutes past midnight) for $25m with $9m guaranteed. I wish him well.

  10. #40
    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by desune! View Post
    Maybe I subconciously couldn't bring myself to type best to describe Niners O-line play over the past few years *shakes head*
    Careful now, you're starting to sound like a Rams fan!!

    WHAT SAY YE?

  11. #41
    desune! is offline Registered User
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Careful now, you're starting to sound like a Rams fan!!

    WHAT SAY YE?
    I'm just a realist. The offseason is a long, long, looooooong period of reflection and consideration. There'll be plenty of time to talk smack during the season.

  12. #42
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    It is going to add a lil more to the games, not that there wasnt enough excitement and rivalry enough.

    Saunders vs. Martz!

    The highly anticipated bout kicks off Nov. 16 at the legendary Candlestick park, where Saunders plans to unleash a plethora of knockout blows to the *******. And if that wasnt enough, they have already scheduled a rematch for Dec. 21 where im sure Martz is going to want to exact revenge upon the Rams for the uncanny beatdown laid upon them on Nov 16th which is now being called the ********** masacre! Truly a match of epic proportions ladies and gentlemen, these are the days you'll remember forevor, tune in and enjoy...................... THE BATTLE OF THE OC'S!!!!!!

    Come one, come all, November 16, 2008, and the highly anticipated rematch Dec. 21, 2008. Be there or be square!
    Last edited by Tampa_Ram; -07-12-2008 at 12:12 PM.


  13. #43
    Athens is offline Registered User
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Its definitely good to talk at length about the things we AREN'T scared about.... I guess. Unless this is a way to mask your fear by declaring that you aren't afraid?

    A couple points. I have read several times in this topic about how Martz is destined to fail in SF because of the lackluster receiver corps in comparison to what he had in Detroit. I think this is a huge underestimation by some people. Isaac Bruce, Bryant Johnson, Ashlie Lelie, Arnaz Battle, TE Vernon Davis, TE Delanie Walker (get used to this name). And that doesn't even consider that Gore has led the team in both receiving and running which doesn't only show how terrible our receivers were in the past, but also shows what a formidable force Gore is as a receiver. I would take our Receivers, TE, and running back group over Detroit's any day of the week. Your underestimating the talent of this offense. Then you have to understand we have some pretty decent rookies, who will surely benefit from the tutelage of IKE and Martz. The Niners offense dropped off last year due to poor offensive coordinating and injuries, don't expect that to happen as easily with Martz at the helm. I always hated the guy when he was with the shams, but one thing I always respected about his style of coaching is holding players accountable.... something that seemed lacking last year for us.

    Also, I read couple of times people saying Smith would fail under Martz because he wasn't an accurate passer. This is completely inaccurate. Last year Smith played 3 games, any of the games he played after the injury are irrelevant. He couldn't throw the ball with that shoulder injury... period. He should not have been on the field, you can't hold those numbers against his potential. Smiths Head Coach (Urban Meyer)had this to say shortly after Smith was drafted...



    "It's going to be interesting in San Francisco," Meyer said. "Alex is an extremely quick learner. However, he's a guy that, until he understands it, he is nonfunctional. He is a guy that -- I keep hearing how Brett Favre [and Jeff Garcia] kind of makes something out of nothing and is a person that runs around to make a play -- Alex Smith is not that kind of player. Alex Smith is a person that, once he is taught, has to learn it all. He might struggle early, but once he gets it, he gets it."


    Asked what he meant by "nonfunctional", Meyers had the following to say....

    "I'm going to be anxious to watch his development with the *****. Alex is so careful with the ball. His touchdown-to-interception ratio the last 2 years was phenomenal (47 touchdowns and seven interceptions). That's because, unless he knows exactly what's going on, he won't throw it. He won't just try to guess and take a shot. He has to know. That's why, early in his career, and early in our career with him at Utah, he was not an effective passer, because he really didn't understand. Once he understood, there was no one better. He learns quickly, though. But he's not a guy that you throw the ball out there and tell him, 'Go play.' He wants to know what is exactly expected of him and then he becomes a dynamite player.''


    I believe that Martz is the perfect guy to go out there and tell Smith EXACTLY what is expected out of him.



    Get ready Shammies, this is going to be a fun year for the both of us.
    Last edited by Athens; -07-18-2008 at 02:06 PM. Reason: addition of material

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