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Thread: Kurt warner

  1. #61
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    Re: Kurt warner

    Quote Originally Posted by Mok
    Hubison, you'll lose all credibility of your argument with me with a statement like that.
    During 2002 and 2003.....The Rams were 18-3 with Bulger at QB; and 0-8 with Warner at QB. Sorry, mok, it's just facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by atchris
    hubison, I don't know which games you're comparing... is it Warner's in 2002 vs Bulger's in 2003? Or what?
    As I said, that is from all games involving those QBs from '02-'03.
    Quote Originally Posted by atchris
    When you say that the teams Warner played had X pct against everyone else and the teams Bulger played against had Y pct, that's bogus. Warner was hurt in the games you are using for his stats, Bulger wasn't.
    I'm sorry Chris, but this is the NFL. One team wins, one team loses. There is no handicapping for a player that plays hurt or otherwise. However, unless you are in fact Martz or a team doctor, I would dare say you (nor anyone else) can not speak with any authority to the true physical status of any player at any given time.
    They were down to their 3rd string QB many times.
    Yes they were. A 3rd stringer named Marc Bulger that was winning.


    Guys, I admire the loyalty to Kurt Warner. You two have taken a stand on an issue that is far from popular. A stand you take even in direct opposition to quantitative data. That kind of loyalty is rare and admirable. I too think he is a great guy (at least from his public appearance), and was a great Ram. But to come back at this point and say the decision was wrong is just silly. Bulger was leading the team to wins, Warner was not. And as I have asked, I will ask again.......assuming Warner would still be vertical had he stayed with the Rams, would you expect the Rams (and the fans) to wait FOUR YEARS for Warner to regain his status ahead of Bulger?

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Cool Re: Kurt warner

    I love Kurt, and always will. He is a good man of faith and an incredible talent.

    That said, the main thing I notice is how much better the Dolphins are without Linehan. THIS is the relevant issue TODAY, not something from six years ago.
    Last edited by pikers; -09-23-2008 at 03:04 PM.

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    Re: Kurt warner

    During 2002 and 2003.....The Rams were 18-3 with Bulger at QB; and 0-8 with Warner at QB. Sorry, mok, it's just facts.
    We're not talking about the TEAM, we're talking about the QUARTERBACK. There is absolutely NO scientific way to show that Warner would not have had the same, or greater success in 2003 than Bulger. Warner was not given a chance, even in the face of Bulger's poor performance (even though the team was still winning). We were 12-4 IN SPITE OF Bulger's performance that year. If Martz had shelved his ego, and put in Warner against the Falcons after the bye week at the latest, I think we would have won out... at the very least we would have known for sure... but instead Bulger had a decent game against that 5-11 team, but then proceeded to throw 12 picks over the next 6 games, 10 in the 4 leading up to the Vikings game.. and Martz should have put Warner back in then... but Bulger pulled it together vs a team that was sporting a 2-4 record out of their bye, in route to a 9-7 lackluster season.

    WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WARNER WOULD HAVE DONE. MARTZ KICKED HIM TO THE CURB.

    As I said, that is from all games involving those QBs from '02-'03. I'm sorry Chris, but this is the NFL. One team wins, one team loses. There is no handicapping for a player that plays hurt or otherwise. However, unless you are in fact Martz or a team doctor, I would dare say you (nor anyone else) can not speak with any authority to the true physical status of any player at any given time. Yes they were. A 3rd stringer named Marc Bulger that was winning.
    No.. the RAMS were winning. Bulger was throwing a bunch of picks. Warner was holding a clipboard.

    Guys, I admire the loyalty to Kurt Warner. You two have taken a stand on an issue that is far from popular. A stand you take even in direct opposition to quantitative data.
    Perhaps the data is "quantatative", but it's far from meaningful when comparing the two quarterbacks.

    But to come back at this point and say the decision was wrong is just silly. Bulger was leading the team to wins, Warner was not.
    Warner had one chance to lead the Rams to victory in 2003. He did receive a concussion during that chance, but his numbers other than the fumbles were pretty darn impressive. Bulger's numbers "quantitatively" were horrible over the rest of the season.

    assuming Warner would still be vertical had he stayed with the Rams, would you expect the Rams (and the fans) to wait FOUR YEARS for Warner to regain his status ahead of Bulger?
    Who says we would have had to wait 4 years? I think we would have won out the rest of the season in 2003 if Warner had taken over the team starting the week after the bye week, vs the Falcons.

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    Re: Kurt warner

    Quote Originally Posted by pikers View Post
    I love Kurt, and always will. He is a good man of faith and an incredible talent.

    That said, the main thing I notice is how much better the Dolphins are without Linehan. THIS is the relevant issue TODAY, not something from six years ago.
    Good point!

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    Re: Kurt warner

    Good point!
    How so? Miami is 8-27 since he left.

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    Re: Kurt warner

    During 2002 and 2003.....The Rams were 18-3 with Bulger at QB; and 0-8 with Warner at QB. Sorry, mok, it's just facts.
    I'm not debating the team's record at that time, just the statement "Bulger was winning, Warner wasn't". Neither of them ever won on their own and Bulger, especially in 2003, wasn't showing that he was ready to start regardless of what the W/L record was.

    You've said that it was unrealistic for the Rams to wait 4 years for Warner to come out of his funk. I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that the timetable would have been identical if he'd stayed with the Rams. He had to go through 3 coaches, 3 systems and all the personnel changes in that time and it wasn't like they were winning teams when he was playing either. Think about how Bulger has been adjusting to new personnel, poor o-line play and a new system this year. Or Brett Favre.

    But, I've said before that I don't think staying with the Rams was Warner's best course of action because he and Martz, as far as I'm concerned, were at odds and there's just very little good that can come out of a situation like that. I also question whether or not he would have got the point where he'd adopt the gloves if he'd stayed in St. Louis and I think that's a major part of his resurgence. None of that has anything to do with how the Rams dealt with the situation. If it was all based on 2002 then I could at least stretch my imagination to agree with you but Warner was chained to the bench in 2003 when Bulger was exhibiting just as many errors and poor performances that got Warner demoted. Bulger was above reproach while Warner wasn't given a chance to win his job back.

    Warner earned some pine time with all of his fumbles and Bulger earned a chance to start with his 2002 numbers but after 5-10 games of mediocrity Warner should have been given one last shot. Especially when you consider what he'd done for the team. I just can't agree with the idea that an injury riddled 8 game stretch of Warner's career was enough for the Rams to legitimately determine he was finished. More so when you consider their track record at evaluating players.

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    Re: Kurt warner

    Ok, honestly, seriously...

    With all that is going on with this team, all the crap that is happening...

    Who cares about this? Really? What if's and how fors are not going to fix our team as it stands now. There are probably less relevant topics to the current Rams franchise, but it's hard to think of one right now.

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    Re: Kurt warner

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenWing View Post
    Ok, honestly, seriously...

    With all that is going on with this team, all the crap that is happening...

    Who cares about this? Really? What if's and how fors are not going to fix our team as it stands now. There are probably less relevant topics to the current Rams franchise, but it's hard to think of one right now.
    I'll remember what this FO and Martz did forever. It wasn't right, and it's repeating itself with Linehan's benching of Bulger.

    They don't know how to treat and value people; it's biting them on the butt, and it affects us as fans. (but if it does, imagine how it affects the players!)

  9. #69
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    Re: Kurt warner

    With all that is going on with this team, all the crap that is happening...

    Who cares about this? Really? What if's and how fors are not going to fix our team as it stands now. There are probably less relevant topics to the current Rams franchise, but it's hard to think of one right now.
    I can provide a link to all of the Bulger getting benched threads or fire Linehan or the defense sucks topics if it'll help you out.

    This particular subject is relevant because a) it's happening all over again and b)it was never truly resolved.

  10. #70
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    Re: Kurt warner

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    How so? Miami is 8-27 since he left.
    Fair enough; it seems they're trending up and we're obviously not. Remember, they were pretty good not too long ago.

    I see them being Buffalo in a year or so.

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    Re: Kurt warner

    Quote Originally Posted by pikers View Post
    Fair enough; it seems they're trending up and we're obviously not. Remember, they were pretty good not too long ago.

    I see them being Buffalo in a year or so.
    Agreed, but I think the reason has more to do with the presence of Parcells than the absence of Linehan.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Kurt warner

    Since the conclusion of his hit TV show, Tony Soprano is doing a pretty nice job in Miami as well.

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    Re: Kurt warner

    D'Marco Farr adds to the discussion, via his interview with Ramwraith:

    Richbert88 wrote (through proxy):

    Do you think the Rams made the right decision to trade Kurt Warner and go with Marc Bulger ? You were there.

    Farr: Richbert88 no way shape or form do I ever trade Kurt Warner, period. Big mistake! He will probably have Arizona knocking on the door of the playoffs this season. I do like Marc Bulger though. If I could choose a quarterback to lead my team, I would be comfortable with him as long as I had a great offensive line and a stellar running game.
    What HE said.

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    Re: Kurt warner

    This team has done this crap to almost all the players worth anything.Kurt Warner should have gotten as many chances as he wanted to come back.Two time mvps and superbowl mvps should get a little respect from the fo and coaching staff.Bad karma sucks

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    Re: Kurt warner

    Quote Originally Posted by ramhomer View Post
    This team has done this crap to almost all the players worth anything.Kurt Warner should have gotten as many chances as he wanted to come back.Two time mvps and superbowl mvps should get a little respect from the fo and coaching staff.Bad karma sucks
    Amen!

    And I add: all that $$$ went to Marc's head, now he doesn't even have room to store all those necessary playbook stuff inside. Buck him down to minimum NFL wage and let him EARN his way back up. They do that in the private & public sectors...union or non union.

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