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  1. #16
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Guys, all emotion aside, he really only had 5 good years. Granted, those 5 years were legendary but they were only 5 years. That's what is going to be tough for him to get into the Hall of Fame. I hope he does, but it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't.
    He's had 6 great years tx, and with the exception of a few seasons, his overall performance in the other years was solid. When you add the MVP's, the Super Bowls, the Pro Bowls, the lofty statistical achievements, a Championship and his impact on the game, there is no doubt in my mind that he's a lock. Being a legendary figure certainly doesn't hurt the argument for his eventual induction.

    You might have had a case against him before his last 3 years in Arizona, but IMO the incredible things he did during that time blow that case out of the water.

    I'll be shocked in he doesn't get in.


  2. #17
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Canton is currently too lopsided in the amount of offensive players compared to defense and a lot of those are QB`s...i expect Kurt to get in there someday..but it wouldnt surprise me if he didnt get in for a couple of decades and with other QB`s currently playing like Favre,Manning & Brady..if he dont get in before they are eligible..we could be looking at a very long wait.
    there are many great players that have been waiting decades and still not yet enshrined in Canton.

  3. #18
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Again, not saying he won't but I tend to agree with Ramblin. If he doesn't get in on the first ballot, he may have to wait a while.

  4. #19
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Again, not saying he won't but I tend to agree with Ramblin. If he doesn't get in on the first ballot, he may have to wait a while.
    That's a reasonable point tx. I have heard a few voters say he may have to wait, but the overwelming majority of voters comments that I've read, from guys like Kent Somers, Len Pasquarelli, Mike Sando, Howard Balzer, Peter King, Jim Trotter and others, intimate that he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Oh yeah, one other voter had this to say: "Kurt Warner is a Hall of Famer, period." None other than your boy Bernie Miklasz.

  5. #20
    Brain Daddy Guest

    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I guess he was at the right place at the right time twice. He took two laughing stock franchises to the Super Bowl, winning one, and putting his team in a position to win the other two. He's a sentimental favorite who just happened to be a great NFL QB. The guy was special and his achievements speak volumes. If you think he won't be inducted into the HOF, you need to think again.
    How exactly is it that Warner deserves credit for turning around either of those franchises? I'd give credit to Dick Vermeil and Mike Martz. Vermeil was a proven coach who had already taken one team to the Super Bowl, while Martz introduced a revolutionary new offense that left defenders confused and tentative. An offense that, while it might have been figured out some by opposing coaches and players, can still make Jon Kitna a 4,000 yard passer and a converted safety can have 1,000 yards receiving. Now take that offense and plug in legitimate HoFers such as Orlando Pace, Isaac Bruce, and (IMO most importantly) Marshall Faulk, and you've got a situation in which any decent QB should succeed. Right place, right time. I'd give Warner more credit if he had been able to maintain his level of play, but instead his performance dropped and he played himself out of a job and was replaced by Marc Bulger.

    As for the Cardinals, the idea that Warner raised the Cards up is laughable. Fitzgerald and Boldin have been one of the best WR duos, if not THE best WR duo in the league, and you could have argued that either was at least a top 10 wideout, if not top 5. And what did Warner do with that talent his first couple of years with the Cardinals? He was mediocre, and then, for the third time in his career, he was benched. Warner only got the starting job back after Leinart showed what a flop he is before going on injured reserve. Again, I'd pin the team's newfound success on a coaching change. The Cards were a consistently talented team with inconsistent play, and Whisenhunt did a better job of getting consistent play than the previous coach. Right place, right time.

    Now I'm not saying Warner won't make it to the Hall of Fame (because I think he will), I'm saying he shouldn't. I think I've mentioned it here before, but I'll say it again anyway - a guy who played himself out of a job with three seperate teams isn't a Hall of Fame player.

  6. #21
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Daddy View Post
    How exactly is it that Warner deserves credit for turning around either of those franchises? I'd give credit to Dick Vermeil and Mike Martz. Vermeil was a proven coach who had already taken one team to the Super Bowl, while Martz introduced a revolutionary new offense that left defenders confused and tentative. An offense that, while it might have been figured out some by opposing coaches and players, can still make Jon Kitna a 4,000 yard passer and a converted safety can have 1,000 yards receiving. Now take that offense and plug in legitimate HoFers such as Orlando Pace, Isaac Bruce, and (IMO most importantly) Marshall Faulk, and you've got a situation in which any decent QB should succeed.
    Using that logic, I'm assuming you don't think Steve Young (who floundered with a bad situation in TB, then flourished with a good situation in SF) should have been in the Hall of Fame either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Daddy View Post
    As for the Cardinals, the idea that Warner raised the Cards up is laughable. Fitzgerald and Boldin have been one of the best WR duos, if not THE best WR duo in the league, and you could have argued that either was at least a top 10 wideout, if not top 5. And what did Warner do with that talent his first couple of years with the Cardinals? He was mediocre, and then, for the third time in his career, he was benched. Warner only got the starting job back after Leinart showed what a flop he is before going on injured reserve. Again, I'd pin the team's newfound success on a coaching change. The Cards were a consistently talented team with inconsistent play, and Whisenhunt did a better job of getting consistent play than the previous coach. Right place, right time.
    Maybe we can see if the idea that Warner raised the Cardinals is laughable, and test your theory. Let's see if the talented, well coached Cardinals can duplicate the success they had the last few years without the mediocre, opportunistic Warner. Should be interesting.

  7. #22
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Daddy View Post
    while Martz introduced a revolutionary new offense that left defenders confused and tentative.
    Then Steve Young, Joe Montanna, and Jerry Rice are also just a product of a revolutionary new system? Or do you think these three deserve to be in the hall of fame?

  8. #23
    Brain Daddy Guest

    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Using that logic, I'm assuming you don't think Steve Young (who floundered with a bad situation in TB, then flourished with a good situation in SF) should have been in the Hall of Fame either.
    As I mentioned earlier, I'd give Warner more credit if he had maintained his level of play. Despite the rough start to his career, once Young got the starting job in SF, he never gave it up, going to seven straight Pro Bowls and is only one of two players to have the league's highest passer rating six times; he had the league's highest YPA and completion % five times, and led the league in TD passes four times.

    (As an aside, I'd also like to point out that part of the reason Young is in the Hall of Fame is that in addition to being a top notch passer, there have been very few players at the position who could match his athleticism and even fewer who could do both as well Young.)

    On the other hand, Warner started out hot and had three great years with Rams, after which he basically fell off the map and didn't reappear until 2008.

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Maybe we can see if the idea that Warner raised the Cardinals is laughable, and test your theory. Let's see if the talented, well coached Cardinals can duplicate the success they had the last few years without the mediocre, opportunistic Warner. Should be interesting.
    Unlikely, unless Leinart steps up his game or they find someone better than him to replace Warner. Leinart is awful and couldn't handle mop up duty against the Jags after being handed a 31-10 lead.

    I'll ask again, albeit a bit more directly this time - If it was Warner who raised up the Cardinals, why didn't they have a winning record until his 4th year with the team? Why is it Warner was benched in week 5 of 2006? Why is it that he only started ONE game after that point until week 5 of 2007? Or was it being suggested that Warner was making the Cards better from the bench?

  9. #24
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Daddy View Post
    I'll ask again, albeit a bit more directly this time - If it was Warner who raised up the Cardinals, why didn't they have a winning record until his 4th year with the team? Why is it Warner was benched in week 5 of 2006? Why is it that he only started ONE game after that point until week 5 of 2007? Or was it being suggested that Warner was making the Cards better from the bench?
    It's common knowledge that Warner had cronic hand injuries and problems, especially with the thumb on his throwing hand. It plagued him the last few years he was with the Rams, continued to be a problem with the Giants, and affected him the first few years he was with Arizona. Only after he had the opportunity to let it heal properly, then start wearing gloves, was he able to grip the ball effectively, return to form, and make the Cardinals a different team.

    Speaking of Steve Young, here are some quotes from a radio interview he did with Bernie Miklasz a few weeks ago:

    Bernie: "In your mind, is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer?"

    Young: "Yeah, and I said that even last year."

    He went on to say:

    "To my mind, you can not argue against what Kurt Warner has done. Forget the middle part of it, take the Rams, take the Cardinals. Who would have thought, I mean, to me, what other quarterback takes two organizations that haven't done that (go to a Super Bowl) and take them the distance?"

    "Regardless of how it happened or what are the situations, I just think that Kurt has done things that I don't know that anyone else has done. And I think that's enough justification for me just alone."

    He said this about the gloves issue:

    "I think it needs to be added here at the end of his career, that those gloves I think have given him the ability to continue to play football. I think that he did have a struggle with his thumb that ended his career in St. Louis. And until he got the gloves on, I don't know that he could play."

  10. #25
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Warner took this team from the dust to the pinnacle, and after he was gone, to dust we returned. He took Arizona from the dust to the pinnacle... will they find another leader like him?

    People underestimate the leader quotient. Martz and company did... their egos couldn't stand such a leader, and so we lost a chance at dynasty status... lots of people around with a total lack of vision. If a HOF voter is one who has no such vision, you might be right. If they are full of people qualified to be on the Rams' front office, Warner might have a tough go of it.

    If they're football people who understand the qualities that are required to be considered one of the greatest of all time, then he's in first ballot, no question.

  11. #26
    chancelandusa Guest

    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    word for word my exact thoughts (feelings) way to go KURT you will be missed thanks for taking RAM fans & franchise to the promise land!!! class act HOF definitely ? first year of eligibility 2nd 3rd year for sure IMO knowing that its time to go tuff decision but the right one kurt & family still have alot to do in life ITS BETTER TO GIVE THAN TO RECEIVE we all can make a difference in our communitys RAMS 2010 see ya there

  12. #27
    chancelandusa Guest

    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    me exact thoughts (feelings) from r8rh8rmikes first post

  13. #28
    Brain Daddy Guest

    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    It's common knowledge that Warner had cronic hand injuries and problems, especially with the thumb on his throwing hand. It plagued him the last few years he was with the Rams, continued to be a problem with the Giants, and affected him the first few years he was with Arizona. Only after he had the opportunity to let it heal properly, then start wearing gloves, was he able to grip the ball effectively, return to form, and make the Cardinals a different team.
    While I do realize Warner has had hand injuries in the past, I have a hard time believing a pair of gloves is the difference between riding the pine and having a bust in Canton. Warner himself has downplayed the gloves and credited improved protection from the offensive line.

    Kent Somers
    The Arizona Republic
    Oct. 4, 2007 08:15 PM
    In four appearances as Matt Leinart's backup, quarterback Kurt Warner has posted phenomenal statistics, completing 70 percent of his passes for 851 yards, four touchdowns and no interceptions.

    Warner started wearing gloves just before those games, but it's a stretch to credit the gloves for the sterling numbers, Warner said. He said he thinks it has more to do with having time to throw.

    In his four games as a starter last year, Warner was sacked 12 times.

    In his previous 19 starts, he went down 62 times. In his past four games, he's been sacked three times.

    "In my year with Giants (2004) and then my two years here, it was no secret that our pass protection wasn't the best, so I was getting hit a whole bunch," Warner said. "And then I finally started using (gloves) the last two games of last year and I barely got hit. And then this year, the offensive line has been tremendous."

    Warner started wearing the gloves to give him a better grip on the ball, and his passes appear to have a slightly tighter spiral.

    "But to me that's overrated," he said. "Who cares what it looks like? I feel like I'm throwing it like I always have. I feel like I have control. I feel like I'm putting it where I want to.

    "Maybe the one advantage is being in the pocket and having a better grip on the football."
    .

  14. #29
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: Kurt Warner Has Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Daddy View Post
    While I do realize Warner has had hand injuries in the past, I have a hard time believing a pair of gloves is the difference between riding the pine and having a bust in Canton. Warner himself has downplayed the gloves and credited improved protection from the offensive line.
    Warner acknowledged that the gloves gave him back the ability to grip the ball, which allowed him to "throw like he always had". The gloves were part of the equation, which was evident by the fact that since those quotes from 2007, he wore them in every single game for the rest of his Hall of Fame career.

    Regardless of the gloves issue, as Steve Young stated, it doesn't matter how it happened or what the situation was, Warner did things that no one else had done, which is justification for his induction.

    You might not think Kurt Warner deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, which is fine, you're not alone, but you're undoubtedly in the minority, and he will be inducted.

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