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  1. #31
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    Re: Looks like warner was the better qb after all....

    Quote Originally Posted by rampower View Post
    Bulger has been given a longer rope, but then we dont have a qb in waiting, who has come in when the starter has been injured and shown themselves to be more effective than the starter at that point in time, if that was the case, they probably would have booted bulger out to another team. Frerote, green, berlin all looked quite poor in relief.
    What a great point. Part of the reason Warner wasn't given a longer leash was... because we had Bulger! While Warner was injured and struggling in 2002, the Rams had a 25-year-old back-up who was posting triple digit QB ratings and helping to win games. Even after Bulger's early successes in 2002, Warner remained the starter going into 2003.

    If the Rams had a viable replacement to Bulger on the roster right now, one that was succeeding on the field and leading the Rams to wins while Bulger was struggling in losses, then Bulger probably wouldn't have the kind of leash he's had. Let's not forget that Linehan benched Bulger this year in favor of Trent Green. Had Green gone out and lit up the field, would the Rams have switched back to Marc? Probably not. But Green didn't; he went out and played WORSE.

    It's not as if the Rams organization just woke up one morning and decided to cut Warner out of the blue. Warner was struggling while another guy was not. And not only was the other guy not struggling, but the team was winning with him in the line-up. Warner's last win as a Rams starter was the 2001 NFC championship game. It wasn't all Kurt's fault, but some of it was. Just like it's not all Bulger's fault now, but some of it is. Even with the off the field issues between Martz and the Warners, if the Rams don't have Bulger in 2002 or 2003, then the final chapters of Kurt's Rams story likely end in a very different way.


  2. #32
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    Re: Looks like warner was the better qb after all....

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    What a great point. Part of the reason Warner wasn't given a longer leash was... because we had Bulger! While Warner was injured and struggling in 2002, the Rams had a 25-year-old back-up who was posting triple digit QB ratings and helping to win games. Even after Bulger's early successes in 2002, Warner remained the starter going into 2003.
    What should be a rather obvious difference here is that Bulger was not a 2 time NFL MVP only a year removed from leading the Rams to the Super Bowl either. So, they had a decent QB on the bench? Did they have a special player sitting on the bench? A future Hall of Famer in another pocket somewhere???

    And Warner remained the starter for one game in 2003. One game that he played most of after sustaining a concusion. Then Martz installed Bulger again, dialed down Max Q again with him in there, something he refused to try with Warner, and actually protected him and ran the ball. I mean, they went 12-4 with Bulger basically having his hand held all season that year and despite him throwing as many INT's as TD's and posting a QB rating not in the tripple digits, but of 81.


    I also disagree that Green came in and played worse this year, but that hardly matters. It was one game.

  3. #33
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    Re: Looks like warner was the better qb after all....

    Quote Originally Posted by HornIt View Post
    What should be a rather obvious difference here is that Bulger was not a 2 time NFL MVP only a year removed from leading the Rams to the Super Bowl either.
    Very true, but it was Bulger who was winning games and performing well for the Rams, not the two-time NFL MVP. And the NFL is about winning games. Even after his poor '02 season, Warner was rightfully handed the starting job back for 2003. But he then played poorly and was injured in his first start and only start the following season. Meanwhile, Bulger played very well in 2002 and again when he was reinserted into the line-up in 2003.

    Look at Martz's situation. He'd taken over a Super Bowl champion team, and two of his three years (2000 and 2002) were disappointments. If you're a head coach who wants to rebound, you go with the hot hand and the guy who is winning games. Personally I would have liked to have seen Warner inserted back into the line-up after the '03 bye week, but I can understand why he wasn't.

    Maybe if Warner doesn't get hurt, he doesn't get benched that season. Maybe he leads the Rams on to twelve wins or more. Or maybe the Rams continue to lose and he continues to struggle. Who knows. The fact is he did get hurt, and Bulger started the next week and won. The Rams went on to have a 12-win season and get back into the playoffs.

    This doesn't even begin to crack the off the field issues with Martz and Brenda and whatnot, which I would say certainly played some part in Warner's fate here. But that's another topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by HornIt View Post
    Then Martz installed Bulger again, dialed down Max Q again with him in there, something he refused to try with Warner, and actually protected him and ran the ball.
    Martz installed a simpler offense that protected Bulger more because Marc was a raw quarterback who not only lacked the experience and instincts that more seasoned starters possess but also lacked the time in the system to have it down well. It would have been suicide to throw Marc into the normal offensive system, just like it would be suicide to throw any young inexperienced QB into a complicated timing-based system.

    I agree that I would have liked to see more adjustments from Martz to try and help Warner out, but you said it yourself - Warner was a two-time NFL MVP, a Super Bowl winner, a special player, a future Hall of Famer. I think that begs the question, why should he need a MaxQ offense to protect him when he's that good? I mean, if you're going to emphasize Warner's résumé as a reason to start him over Bulger despite his play, shouldn't his past successes and quality as a player also be a reason why he shouldn't have to have HIS hand held in a watered down offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by HornIt View Post
    I also disagree that Green came in and played worse this year, but that hardly matters. It was one game.
    Green's QB rating last season was nearly 30 points lower than Marc's. His completion percentage was lower than Bulger's. He did not throw a single touchdown pass. He threw nearly half as many interceptions in three games as Marc did in 14. Green's interception percentage (8.3%) was nearly triple what Marc's was (3.0%). I really don't see how it's even a discussion, so suffice to say, we'll have to agree to disagree on whether Green played better.

    And frankly, I think I'm going to bow out of this thread as well. It's been half a decade since Warner was part of this team and this horse has been beaten so far into the ground that we're pounding at dirt at this point. As I said, I would have liked to see Warner get one more start in 2003 after the bye just to see what would happen, but I can't blame Martz for going with the younger guy who is winning and executing.

    And after 2003, it became a financial decision, which is life in the NFL sadly. And it'll be life in the NFL for Bulger if the Rams find a young QB who shows promise while Bulger continues to struggle and take up large chunks of cap space. But they don't have that now, so that's one of the reasons Bulger has benefited from a longer leash IMO.

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