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  1. #46
    Dr MartinVonNostrand's Avatar
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    you want to see an ego, man, I can show you ego's

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  2. #47
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    I will jump in and say Martz was one if not the best Rams coaches ever. The proof is in his win loss record.

    That being said the few things I just never could understand.

    Hired Marmie

    The fact he did not give Warner a fair shot

    Lack of protection of Warner and Marc

    His way of using the media to air his issues

  3. #48
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    At this point Martz is water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. But the team's lack of balance on both sides of the ball over the last three years can't be ingnorred in any Martz post mortem. The hiring of Marmie was a huge mistake by Martz. That and the horrendous special teams caused partially by the revolving door of special teams coaches.
    DeadHead Ram

  4. #49
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    And I firmly disagree, because he did exactly that when he preferred the team keep London Fletcher but yielded to Lovie's advice to replace London with Jamie Duncan. It seems like a pretty similar analogy to me, and I think just brushing it off by saying he simply had no interest in the defense is inaccurate because I don't recall seeing anything to suggest Martz had absolutely no interest in half of his team.
    HE HAD NO INTEREST IN THE DEFENSE WHEN HE HIRED HIS BUDDY MARMIE TO HEAD THE DEFENSE. ARE YOU TELLING ME MARMIE WAS THE BEST CANDIDATE OUT THERE? ARE YOU? DID MARMIE COME IN AND FIX WITH HIS BUDDY MARTZ LOVIE'S SO CALLED MISTAKES? YOU CRITICIZE LOVIE OVER LONDON FLETCHER? TO ADOPT YOUR ARGUMENT, OUR DEFENSE WENT TO HELL BECAUSE FLETCHER LEFT, LIKE THAT ONE DECISION DOOMED THE RAMS DEFENSE. COME ON. FLETCHER WAS A FINE PLAYER, BUT HE DIDN'T CARRY THAT DEFENSE.
    Last edited by bigredman; -05-10-2006 at 11:49 PM.
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  5. #50
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    I will jump in and say Martz was one if not the best Rams coaches ever. The proof is in his win loss record.
    Another common but illogical argument. The coach's win/loss record is only as good as the players on the team. I know. I've coached for 25 years. Check out Marriucci and Seifert. Had great records with whiners, but were losers at Lions and Panthers respectively. Why? Are they lesser coaches at their new teams, or did they have good players while with the whiners? Martz INHERITED a GREAT TEAM. What did he do with it? Look at where the journey ends people, not the first two steps!
    Last edited by bigredman; -05-10-2006 at 11:41 PM.
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  6. #51
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    Nick, brings up a good point which most will just dismiss as nothing. If Martz had as big of an ego as most thought he did, why did he bring in Lovie then? Lovie was considered one of the best defensive minds in the league and Martz pretty much gave him an open field when it came to decisions on that side of the ball. Not something a big, egotistical HC would do I would think.
    Because Vermeil wanted him earlier, but was nixed when Lovie extended his contract with the Buccaneers. It was the Rams FO that brought Lovie's name back up when he became available. I notice you two conveniently refuse to acknowledge that Martz brought Marmie on board, which was TOTALLY HIS CALL!
    Last edited by bigredman; -05-10-2006 at 11:58 PM.
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  7. #52
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    HE HAD NO INTEREST IN THE DEFENSE WHEN HE HIRED HIS BUDDY MARMIE TO HEAD THE DEFENSE. ARE YOU TELLING ME MARMIE WAS THE BEST CANDIDATE OUT THERE? ARE YOU? YOU CRITICIZE LOVIE OVER LONDON FLETCHER? WHO'S A HEAD COACH RIGHT NOW? I CALL THAT SCOREBOARD!
    I don't believe repeating a claim over again in all capitals while still not providing supporting information for said claim makes it any more credible, but maybe I went to some weird school of debate that didn't teach this type of response.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    Because Vermeil wanted him earlier, but was nixed when Lovie went under contract. It was the Rams FO that brought Lovie's name back up when he became available. I notice you two conveniently refuse to acknowledge that Martz brought Marmie on board, which was TOTALLY HIS CALL!
    I see. It's tx and I who won't acknowledge what the things Martz has done, even though you give Martz absolutely no credit at all for anything related to the defense or anything related to the acquisition of Lovie Smith to the coaching staff.

    You praise Dick Vermeil for listening to his assistant coaches, yet when Martz does the same and trusts Lovie's opinion on personnel, it's somehow not the same analogy and Martz doesn't get that same credit.

    Yes, clearly it's tx and I who aren't acknowledging things about Martz here. :drunk:

    No one's denying the very poor move that was Marmie - a poor move that the front office had to have signed off on, contrary to your claim that it was totally Martz's call. Yet you seem to go into DEFCON 4 whenever someone gives Martz any kind of credit for something good that happened while he was a head coach.

    So be it. Since your last response to me was nothing more than the internet's equivalent of screaming and yelling and banging on a loud drum rather than posting something that had any kind of substance or supportive information for your claims, then I think I've finished spending time on this "debate."
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  8. #53
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    I tried to warn you guys earlier, lol.

  9. #54
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    I don't believe repeating a claim over again in all capitals while still not providing supporting information for said claim makes it any more credible, but maybe I went to some weird school of debate that didn't teach this type of response.




    I see. It's tx and I who won't acknowledge what the things Martz has done, even though you give Martz absolutely no credit at all for anything related to the defense or anything related to the acquisition of Lovie Smith to the coaching staff.

    You praise Dick Vermeil for listening to his assistant coaches, yet when Martz does the same and trusts Lovie's opinion on personnel, it's somehow not the same analogy and Martz doesn't get that same credit.

    Yes, clearly it's tx and I who aren't acknowledging things about Martz here. :drunk:

    No one's denying the very poor move that was Marmie - a poor move that the front office had to have signed off on, contrary to your claim that it was totally Martz's call. Yet you seem to go into DEFCON 4 whenever someone gives Martz any kind of credit for something good that happened while he was a head coach.

    So be it. Since your last response to me was nothing more than the internet's equivalent of screaming and yelling and banging on a loud drum rather than posting something that had any kind of substance or supportive information for your claims, then I think I've finished spending time on this "debate."
    OUCH!!!!!!
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  10. #55
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Well, I see Martz is getting blamed for everything again. I do believe it's Martz's fault that global warming is still haunting the world.

    BRM, Martz wasn't without his shortcomings. His lack of attention to special teams cost him every year he was a HC. Also, when you have to blow up the defense in 2000 and then again in 2005 shows you he really didn't have as much input on an everyday basis as a HC should. Also, when teams adjusted to the Rams style, he didn't make the necessary adjustments to counter what other teams started doing. However, he still made the Rams dangerous on any given Sunday. He still brought a scheme to the Rams that won a Super Bowl and took them to another. NO, THE RAMS DID NOT WIN IN SPITE OF MARTZ AND LOST BECAUSE OF MARTZ.
    Last edited by txramsfan; -05-11-2006 at 10:37 AM.

  11. #56
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    I've heard this argument a lot, and I have to wonder a couple of notions:

    1. What evidence does ANYONE have that Martz has a huge ego? (Not Terry Bradshaw said so, but actually data showing Martz' ego)

    2. Assuming Martz does have some huge ego, name one game where that ego lead to a loss.


    I am anxiously awaiting answers.
    Alrighty then....it's going on three days now, and I've yet to see any responses......so I guess we can all quit using the silly "Martz is an ego-maniac" argument.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #57
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Martz INHERITED a GREAT TEAM
    BRM, you are an extremely cool guy, and your generosity with the Holt Foundation is beyond compare. However, I have to disagree with this argument.

    Martz inherited nothing. Martz was here before Holt and Faulk. Bruce was on his way out if not for Martz. Warner would still be on the bench backing up Hostetler if not for Martz. Martz didn't inherit the GSOT.....he built it.

    Think about it this way. Let's say the Rams come out this year, and dominate on defense. We go all the way looking like the '85 Bears on D. At the end of the year, Linehan decides to hang it up, and Haslett becomes the HC. Does that mean Haslett "inherited" the world's greatest defense? Of course not.

    Well, Martz didn't "inherit" anything either.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #58
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Another common but illogical argument.
    Iím not saying he did not have a top-notch team handed to him. But in the NFL what happens after you go to or win a SB, you guessed it you lose quality players! In the NFL we all know turn over of the roster is at break neck speed! This is not baseball back in the 70ís when a team like the Dodgers had the same infield for a decade.

    Bigredman if you believe that the day after the SB win in 1999 this team did not start to lose players your not watching too closely. We lost Players and Coaches as D.V retired.

    Iím a big Warner supporter how many SB has he been to lately? Where is Ernie,AZ,Flecther, ect. Players get over paid every year in this business ea. Arch! 30mil!

    We did make it back to the SB, Martz win lose record is his and his alone. As I have read in other post Martz did have some impact on players that we acquired prior to being the HC, Marshal, Warner ect.

    Itís funny how all the winning coaches have all the best players. Warner and Marc they where really top notch guys before Martz.

  14. #59
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Why doesn't anyone like me?
    :sad:

    I'll use small type as to not offend anyone's sensibilities.

    OK....I have erected a shrine to Martz....I have my Half Lions-Half Rams jersey ordered with Martz's name on it. He is GOD. He got a Super bowl win FOR Vermeil. Vermeil should have kissed Martz's shoes during the Super bowl celebration. Afterall, it was Martz that saved the Rams after the Super Bowl. All the other teams in the NFL are stupid idiots for not hiring Martz as their new Head Coach. Lovie was a defensive moron (The Bears are such pathetic idiots for hiring him). Thank god Martz canned him for all the stupid defensive moves he made. And the front office is to blame for the hiring of Marmie, afterall, Martz just mentioned it in passing, didn't push for the hiring of his old buddy. The front office shouldn't have listened, since it was Martz that came up with the Lovie hiring....oh wait...that was a bad hiring, right? OH, WOW....How could I be such a mental defective. OHHHHHHHH.....the win/loss record.....how could I have been so blind? The so called steady decline of the Rams under his leadership was all an illusion and a knucklehead claim on my part. That's right, lets blame that on the assisitant coaches and front office for letting all of Martz's boys leave the team. Not his fault. Afterall, he got us back to the Super Bowl. The damn officials took that win away from us. I wish he was back. Please bring him back! What do I know? Right? After all, I never met the man supposedly at UOP in Stockton. I must not be a real Rams fan. How dare I. Let me apologize to your superior wisdom and insight. I'm just not worthy to discuss this subject. Sorry, sorry, sorry! I can't argue with such superlative minds that ALWAYS find an excuse to love that man Martz. ALL HAIL CAESAR! Now excuse me, I think I'll go throw up.

    P.S. Tanus...the apology doesn't apply to you since you have never added anything substantive to this dialog
    Last edited by bigredman; -05-11-2006 at 09:51 PM.
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  15. #60
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    Re: Martz is starting goofy stuff in Detroit already

    Martz is gone and I am glad, If you don't win the big one.........your just another one. Martz can fuel his fire else where, be good or not at least it isn't here! Martz had a great winning %.......so did Marv Levy!
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

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