Mike Martz......2.0?

[moklerman]

I would think it impossible not long ago but thinking about '09, could Martz actually be a candidate for HC next year? I think there are some ideas that support it happening.

First, he's going to help Nolan keep his job this year so Martz won't be inheriting that situation.

Second, in the Martz-Bowl today, it was clear that the offense in Detroit is far worse without him and that it probably wasn't "his" fault that things fell apart.

Third, he's clearly showing that he's willing to use a RB if the RB is worth using.

Fourth, familiarity often plays a role in which coaches are hired. In this case, it's within the division as well as former coach.

Fifth, if they want Bulger to come back to life, who better to do it?

Sixth, even though the current staff isn't using any of them, the Rams have a bunch of fast WR's that Martz, I think, prefers.

Seventh, Martz and Saunders are still on good terms aren't they?

I'm sure there are more ways to spin the possibility of Martz coming back but I'm actually open to the idea of it. Especially if the front office is blown up like it should be. I thought it was the right move to get rid of him since they were keeping the FO in place back then but now, it makes sense on many levels to bring him back. I don't know if he'd be a better HC now but I do know that he would be in a much different situation as the HC. Last time, he was a first time HC and only had 1 year as an OC under his belt. He was simply too inexperienced to inherit a team much less one that had all the expectations of the GSOT Rams. This time around, he would be re-building and "saving" the team so that same pressure wouldn't be there.

The more I think about it, the more curious I become about this.

[RamDez]

see, I for one would love him back with the Rams but the town of St Louis would just crucify him.

[moklerman]

Are you sure, RamDez? I mean, perception has to be at least a little different than it was when he left.

He may never live down some of his quirks as a first time head coach but I certainly have my doubts about Martz being the actual and only problem in the first go-around. If we take circumstances out of the equation then I think it might be hard for Rams fans to welcome him back but it can't be ignored that we, as fans, when you boil it all down, were critical of Martz because he wasn't winning Super Bowls. I think most fans have come down from the entitlement high that the GSOT got us all drunk on.

Another thing that I always felt, even though I was really frustrated with him, was that I think he's actually one of the good guys. I think he actually cares and ultimately, as evidenced by Detroit and SF, his style of offense will still put points on the board and give a team a chance of winning. And right now, I think most Rams fans would welcome that over what's happened the last few years and where things seem to be headed.

It seems pretty simple really. Put a good GM in place that could live with or be happy with Martz. Hire Martz. Bring back Bruce(not sure about his contract but I think he's attainable). Bring back Warner(free agent after '08 for all intents and purposes. St. Louis would be the only place I'd see him going if Arizona doesn't keep him as I think he'll retire before moving again). Hire Marshall in some capacity and celebrate "One last time in '09". See how the chips fall and restructure for 2010. I'm sure Martz would choose to re-invent Bulger over Warner coming back but that could be done as well and still implement the "bring back the fans" plan I have in mind.

Edit: '09 will be the anniversary of the birth of the GSOT so it works on that level too if you believe in cosmic things.

[RamDez]

I tell you, I would LOVE to see him back and I do think it would work. But St Louis is a terrible place to be right now and the fans are very fickle. (now I've gone and done it )

[moklerman]

I don't really have a feel for what the fans really feel in St. Louis but I think the team is lucky to have two fanbases and should work to repair that relationship as soon as possible. Winning will solve everything but I'm not opposed to a little politicking with bringing back fan favorites to help in the cause. I'm not really sure of the team's motivation at this point though.

I think it's a tremendous longshot that the Rams would move back to L.A. but the cancerous implosion, ownership issues, attendance dropoff and overall feel of the team right now is becoming eerily reminiscent of the '94 season in L.A. So much of what's going on seems like non-football, behind the scenes maneuvering. I really don't know that there's an interest to put a good product back in St. Louis and with all the turmoil I don't see how they are going to attract quality coaching/players.

"IF" they really want to improve I think Martz could be a real quick fix, especially in the West. But my spider-sense(Rams-sense?) is buzzing loudly right now. I don't know what the danger is, but it certainly feels like something bigger than wins and losses is looming.

[Azul e Oro]

Martz?!

Moklerman's points:

1. Don't be so sure about Nolan.You can make the same argument about him being in a lose/lose situation that was under discussion this off-season with Linehan. If the Whiners improve, Martz gets the credit. Nolan would have actually have legit beef,too, since he had a lot to do with rebuilding their D and O-line.
Not even sure that ,come January, that the Whiners will have improved. they haven't beaten anyone yet. Not really.

2. Detroit is atrocious & was not much better with Martz. 19th overall offense in '06. 54 sacks allowed. And didn't he fail to gel with yet another staff/FO ? He makes nice about Detroit but he did get canned,no?

3. Good thing you didn't make that RB comment after Faulk disappeared in the 2nd half of the SB we lost.Might be a few fans who'd take issue.He certainly wouldn't know what to do about our o-line or have you forgotten the revolving door @ ROT ? Bet Warner hasn't.


4.Short-term, nobody wants to play a Martz offense so seeing him leave the NFC West altogether would be good....unless you have a good pass-rush. Long-term, he's a proven QB killer as an OC. As a HC, his drafts were awful , his game management often suspect,etc.

5. That's just crazy talk, Ram friend. Bulger,never mind an aging Warner, would soon be eating through a straw if we tried a Martz spread O.

The Whiners QB has already been sacked 13 times & he's far more mobile than MB or KW.

6. Yeah, there's some raw speed in Avery & Burton but where's your evidence that they can run the precise timing patterns that Bruce & Holt could ? And who are the #3 & 4 that he needs to make the mad Mike wizardry work at all? Never mind the superb chip-blocking RB, dominant LOT, and solid D that could get a stop after that high risk O turned the ball over which it often did even in its heyday?

7. Who knows about Al & Mike. I know I'd be upset if I were Al & Martz got a shot first. Saunders has shown little enough this year but he certainly has a longer history of sustained success as an offensive guru.

I loved the GSOT as much as anyone but ,even then
I knew in my heart that it was like a drug; made you feel great at the time but was really bad for you in the longrun.

I have hope that the rebuilding has already begun,even if by twist of fate than good management. Georgia's reliance on Shaw & Zygmunt is gone, Bill Devaney seems to be the best personnel guy we've had since Charley Armey-losing him was key to our slide back into the dysfunction of the 90s, imho. Let's hope Chip either makes the bold moves we all crave or sells so we can start afresh & attract some real FO/coaching talent.

It's so unlikely that anyone of real merit will even consider the Rams until then but I don't see how a retread will help a car whose engine just fell out of its neglected body.

On the bright side, maybe there's some unsung greasemonkey like Ellard who can patch us back together with existing parts-despite all appearances there are some good pieces here & there- to go 6 & 6 or better after the bye but after that, it's a long restoration project that needs a a team of experts working together under a real engineer .

I've been a fan for over 35 yrs. I want the Rams to be a something like a BMW again. Fun & exciting but fundamentally sound for the long-run. Power & panache & reliability. Those are the Rams I'm nostalgic for , not the Martz era which was more like a British or italian sports car that spent half the time in the shop.

Maybe Faulk could help in some capacity but haven't we learned our lesson about giving senior coaching positions to the inexperienced & unproven?

[moklerman]

Not even sure that ,come January, that the Whiners will have improved. they haven't beaten anyone yet. Not really.

True, but their offense is clearly better than it was. They were dead last in '07 in scoring and yardage and are 10 and 14 right now. The D and running game look strong too so I don't think it's hard to imagine them competing for the west this year. Instant turnaround on offense thus far.

2. Detroit is atrocious & was not much better with Martz. 19th overall offense in '06. 54 sacks allowed. And didn't he fail to gel with yet another staff/FO ? He makes nice about Detroit but he did get canned,no?

Detroit was 25th in points before Martz and is scoring less than 20/game already without him. Kitna looks horrible and even with Martz gone and 2 new RB's, they're averaging only 75 yards rushing per game. I think Martz was the scapegoat in Detroit and Marinelli had to can him or can himself. Their defense is just too horrible to sustain any kind of running game or offense.

3. Good thing you didn't make that RB comment after Faulk disappeared in the 2nd half of the SB we lost.Might be a few fans who'd take issue.He certainly wouldn't know what to do about our o-line or have you forgotten the revolving door @ ROT ? Bet Warner hasn't.

The Super Bowl where the Rams were constantly trailing and finally got it together and tied it up in the 2nd half? I didn't agree with Martz sitting on Faulk but that game was far from normal situations too. With all the things the ref's were allowing it's hard for me to say whether or not Faulk would have made the difference with 20+ carries. I do know that after all the miscues and mismanagement the Rams were tied with just over a minute to go. Not a great coaching performance by Martz but in retrospect, not horrible either. I wouldn't use that one game to illustrate Martz's career or current style either. Just because he didn't have his best game 7 years ago doesn't mean that he's the same guy.

4.Short-term, nobody wants to play a Martz offense so seeing him leave the NFC West altogether would be good....unless you have a good pass-rush. Long-term, he's a proven QB killer as an OC. As a HC, his drafts were awful , his game management often suspect,etc.

Even with all of that, "his" teams were still getting to the playoffs. I think there's a chance he may have learned a thing or two since then as well. Maybe not, but I think many people forget that he had a grand total of 1 year as an OC when handed the job in '00. Bellicheck didn't look like much his first time as a HC either. It's possible for experience to improve a guy.

5. That's just crazy talk, Ram friend. Bulger,never mind an aging Warner, would soon be eating through a straw if we tried a Martz spread O.

Not really. Warner took more hits last year than any other QB even though he didn't take many sacks and Bulger is already taking hits/sacks with what the Rams have had the past 3 years. I don't see anything Martz would devise as being that much worse. O'Sullivan's taken 12 and Bulger's taken 10 this year. Not an issue in my mind. Not good, but nothing either of these guys haven't been already dealing with.

It's so unlikely that anyone of real merit will even consider the Rams until then but I don't see how a retread will help a car whose engine just fell out of its neglected body.

Like Cowher, Shottenhemier and Billick? Guess who's got the best winning % out of those four? Martz would be a risk but a worthy one. At the very least, it would get all Rams fans interested again.

[jkramsfan]

I have to say you put up a very good arguement for this, I would be in favor of it,we may not be the team of old but we would be competitive and always in the game,how many people knew the game was over Sunday when it was 17-0 in the FIRST qtr. ?that would not happen with Martz.

[makersncoke]

It's ok Dez we are a fickle bunch, I will admit that. Trust me, right now we would take Mad Mike back with open arms. He may win if he ran for mayor right now. We may even approve the sale of the Rams to Bill Bidwell if we thought it would help.

[RAM-BO]

I would think it impossible not long ago but thinking about '09, could Martz actually be a candidate for HC next year? I think there are some ideas that support it happening.

First, he's going to help Nolan keep his job this year so Martz won't be inheriting that situation.

I'm not so sure this is right moklerman. The ***** offense was uber-vanilla before Martz came in. if Martz decides to pursue a headcoaching job, the San Francisco front office might decide Martz is more valuable to their team than Nolan, dump the HC and promote the OC.

[pikers]

Like Cowher, Shottenhemier and Billick? Guess who's got the best winning % out of those four? Martz would be a risk but a worthy one. At the very least, it would get all Rams fans interested again.

I'd be on cloud 9 if we hired a badass like Cowher. He's exactly the type of player-loving tough guy we need to right this nonsense.

[Striped_Kramer]

see, I for one would love him back with the Rams but the town of St Louis would just crucify him.

Would Los Angeles?

[general counsel]

There are no odds of this as long as ziggy and shaw are involved.

ramming speed to all

general counsel