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  1. #16
    badmoforamfan's Avatar
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsanddodgers View Post
    I fully understand that these (or MOST of these) dogs were raised for the sole purpose of fighting much as cattle are raised for slaughter. Cattle however are slaughtered without subjecting them to a mauling first. That and the fact that those deemed unfit for battle were killed by vrious means not worth repeating.

    Mike Vick was the envy of hundreds or thousands of fans. He had the money, the fame, the lifestyle afforded to a very small percentage of the country and he basically threw it away. I personally would not be sad if he never played another down in the NFL, and I daresay he will barely be missed by anyone other than Falcons fans. Possibly not even by them if the team shows any improvement.
    I totally agree with you on many of your points. Like I mentioned earlier I was merely playing devils advocate. I agree that the way that they (Vick and company) destroyed the animals was horrible. I would also like to point out that cattle are not always humainly slaughterd, but your point is taken. I was 17 when I witnessed the fight and was amazed by the whole sceen. Hillbillies wearing overalls with a couple grand in the front pocket. It is illeagal gambling, but so are office football pools. Though that is at the oppiste spectrum of what we are talking about. I don't agree with it and being that he is/was a role model to many youths is why I also think that he should never be able to have the privledge to play another down in the NFL.

    Funny how a dogfight remains in national headlines and a drunk driver that kills another human being just dosent sell papers.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Maybe not now, but soon.

  2. #17
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Quote Originally Posted by badmoforamfan View Post
    Funny how a dogfight remains in national headlines and a drunk driver that kills another human being just dosent sell papers.
    Drunk driving happens all the time and it makes the papers all the time and lots of death is discussed in the news. What are we suppose to say about it? It is old news.

    Now dog fighting is new and fresh. Lots of people are fascinated because they have never experienced it. It is not mainstream and it is not televised.

    I don't really understand boxing to be honest. Why do people like watching guys bounce around in a ring punching each other until one falls down? Why is boxing legal? Or how about extreme fighting? Why is people fighting different than dog fighting? One is legal, one is not, both cause injury to the participants.

    As far as Vick goes, he is not a good role model. He chooses to do illegal things with the money he has made from the NFL, and he lies about things to cover his tracks. Perhaps he grew up with people that gave status to those with fighting pits and he still needs to be important to those people. I hope that he has seen the light and that he has seen that he has headed down the wrong path. Only time will tell if he is just telling people what they want to hear, or if he is just covering up again.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #18
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Boxers have a choice. Dogs don't (including dogs who happen to be boxers).

  4. #19
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Boxers have a choice. Dogs don't (including dogs who happen to be boxers).
    Exactly. A boxer chooses to go into the ring and can throw in the towel at any time if things get bad, then walk away. In boxing there are rules, precautions, padded gloves, doctors, cut men and referees who closely monitor the action. Boxers also don't have to worry about being electrocuted, drowned, shot, hung or slammed to the ground until dead if they don't perform well enough. No comparison.

  5. #20
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Exactly. A boxer chooses to go into the ring and can throw in the towel at any time if things get bad, then walk away. In boxing there are rules, precautions, padded gloves, doctors, cut men and referees who closely monitor the action. Boxers also don't have to worry about being electrocuted, drowned, shot, hung or slammed to the ground until dead if they don't perform well enough. No comparison.
    If dog fighting were legal like boxing and it had all the rules, precautions and monitoring devices in place, would you still be offended by it?

    Are people ok with race horses being shot and greyhounds being dumped after their glory days are over?

    Sorry I am so fftopic: here.....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #21
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Hey Utter,

    IMHO, I think the key here is that boxers, MMA fighters, football players, etc, decide for themselves to take on their profession of choice. If they are not succesful in their career choice they simply lose a job. These people are not killed whether it is humane or not.

    Animals are forced into whatever their owners are "into" and to me this makes the owners the 'bad guys'.

    I think I understand your point though...
    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

  7. #22
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Quote Originally Posted by UtterBlitz View Post
    If dog fighting were legal like boxing and it had all the rules, precautions and monitoring devices in place, would you still be offended by it?
    What precautions could be put in place for dog fighting? Muzzles? Paw covers? Come on now, dogs are thrown into a pit with the expectation of mauling each other until one collapses or dies. It's illegal for good reason.

    Again, I just don't see the comparison to boxing. I understand arguments against prize fighting, but the bottom line is the competitors have a choice in the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtterBlitz View Post
    Are people ok with race horses being shot and greyhounds being dumped after their glory days are over?
    I'm not sure race horses are shot, I believe they are given some form of lethal injection in a humane way when it is necessary to put them down. I don't know much about dog racing, but my guess is it should be better regulated.

  8. #23
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    What precautions could be put in place for dog fighting? Muzzles? Paw covers? Come on now, dogs are thrown into a pit with the expectation of mauling each other until one collapses or dies. It's illegal for good reason.

    Again, I just don't see the comparison to boxing. I understand arguments against prize fighting, but the bottom line is the competitors have a choice in the matter.
    Alright so you don't like the boxing comparison since the people involved have a choice. I understand that. So violence is ok, as long as it is a chosen activity.

    Dog fighting, cock fighting, bull fighting would all not be ok since the animals don't have a choice in the matter and extreme violence is involved. Dog and horse racing are ok since they are legal and they don't involve death too often, even though the animals have no choice there.

    So maybe it is a combination of lack of choice and the degree of violence that makes dog fighting illegal.

    I own a pit mix and I met a guy over in Romania back in the beginning of my pit days. This guy had two fighting pit bulls. He was very proud of those dogs and it meant a lot to him. They don't have pets in Romania. It is very third world over there. Animals are kept outside. No one has any money to de-pest them. He was amazed that I was not going to be fighting my pit. He said that the fights were monitored and the dogs were seperated when one of them gave up. It did not sound like they killed each other very often. I don't really know a lot about fighting pits so I could be wrong about this. Maybe a lot of them actually die in the pit. Of course, once you have a fighting pit that refuses to fight, they probably aren't worth keeping.

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I'm not sure race horses are shot, I believe they are given some form of lethal injection in a humane way when it is necessary to put them down. I don't know much about dog racing, but my guess is it should be better regulated.
    I would guess that any animal that is used for entertainment may suffer in the hands of humans. Any activity that is legal could be regulated so that the worst offenses are prohibited. I am sure there must be instances of abuse in zoos, circuses, and horse and dog racing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #24
    keith m. klink Guest

    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    it all comes down to whether or not humans have the moral capability too be human , there are enough damn sports to cheer for and be a gamblers dream . as said before , horsr racing , greyhound racing , and dog fighting , it's mans own choice because we RULE over all else in this world . we just want more and more . cock fighting , bull fighting . man just wants what he wants . without thought , or care for the loss of a life of a simple animal that just wants too exist . we are the animal , the monsters , the moralless beings . if you condone any of these SPORTS , you are that monster. the killing of these animals has no benefit to society the animals themselves or the environment or humanity . cow's and pigs have been bread for the sole purpose of food protein. these other animals are killed and disregarded for humans savage pleasures , if you need that kind of pleasure too be a man , try some new things in the bedroom with your wife if you need to prove your a man .

  10. #25
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Quote Originally Posted by UtterBlitz View Post
    Alright so you don't like the boxing comparison since the people involved have a choice. I understand that. So violence is ok, as long as it is a chosen activity.

    Dog fighting, cock fighting, bull fighting would all not be ok since the animals don't have a choice in the matter and extreme violence is involved. Dog and horse racing are ok since they are legal and they don't involve death too often, even though the animals have no choice there.

    So maybe it is a combination of lack of choice and the degree of violence that makes dog fighting illegal.

    I own a pit mix and I met a guy over in Romania back in the beginning of my pit days. This guy had two fighting pit bulls. He was very proud of those dogs and it meant a lot to him. They don't have pets in Romania. It is very third world over there. Animals are kept outside. No one has any money to de-pest them. He was amazed that I was not going to be fighting my pit. He said that the fights were monitored and the dogs were seperated when one of them gave up. It did not sound like they killed each other very often. I don't really know a lot about fighting pits so I could be wrong about this. Maybe a lot of them actually die in the pit. Of course, once you have a fighting pit that refuses to fight, they probably aren't worth keeping.

    I would guess that any animal that is used for entertainment may suffer in the hands of humans. Any activity that is legal could be regulated so that the worst offenses are prohibited. I am sure there must be instances of abuse in zoos, circuses, and horse and dog racing.
    Think about it, slamming an innocent animal to the ground until it's dead because it doesn't perform to expectations. The dog fighting culture Vick was a part of is in a sick, twisted class by itself.

  11. #26
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    Re: My final words on Vick: "Shut up, Mike."

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Think about it, slamming an innocent animal to the ground until it's dead because it doesn't perform to expectations. The dog fighting culture Vick was a part of is in a sick, twisted class by itself.
    It is true, Vick has reached a level of cruelty that I can't understand and the dog fighting community must be pretty low to support such things.
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