Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
  1. #1
    general counsel's Avatar
    general counsel is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    atlanta, georgia
    Age
    52
    Posts
    5,628
    Rep Power
    82

    naacp says vick should be allowed back

    NAACP has made two basic statements today. First, like anyone else, vick should be allowed to return to the nfl after he serves his time. I agree with that. I dont think that he should be banned for life based on what he did with the dogs, although if the league turns up information that he was running a gambling ring, rather than just personally betting, i might have a different view. Whether a team will sign him is a different story, but i do think that after a suspension he should have the legal right to return.

    The second comment from NAACP makes me nuts. They say "whats the difference between hunting, which is ok, and dogfighting, which isnt. They are both sports." The difference is that one is legal and the other is illegal. Just like the scotch vs. weed debate. The NAACP is entitled to their ethical and moral view, although i never once heard a hunter say that the objective of hunting is to torture animals. Kill them sure, but not torture them. The NAACP should work with mike vick and others (such as stephan marbury of the knicks who said the same thing today) to legalize dogfighting if they think its ok. That is their constitutional right and i will defend to the death their ability to make that argument in a free society even if i dont agree with it.

    However, unless they get the law changed, the behavior is illegal and stating that its the same as hunting is no defense at all to the actions vick took. If i am driving in a 55mph speed zone and i get pulled over doing 65, does it make any sense to let me off if i tell the police officer that i didnt do anything wrong because the speed limit SHOULD BE 70?

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel



  2. #2
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is online now Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    29 Palms, Ca.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,724
    Rep Power
    129

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    If the NAACP feels Vick should be able to return to the NFL after he serves his time, I'm sure they wouldn't be against concerned, ouraged citizens exercisng their right to protest, boycott, and turn the screws against any NFL team that signed him. It goes both ways. Good luck to Mike hooking up with an NFL team after his stint in the slammer, 'cause IMO it's just not going to happen.

  3. #3
    Sweets's Avatar
    Sweets is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    32
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    I'm totally surprised the NAACP didn't bring up the color of the dogs, since they're basically only about that.

  4. #4
    BigGameMN's Avatar
    BigGameMN is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Age
    32
    Posts
    720
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    This makes me sick. I don't see how any logical person can call dog fighting a sport. Don't these people know the torture these animals endure from just the training their put through? Not to mention the fights and other grisly details.

    And to compare it to hunting is silly. First of all most people who hunt eat what they kill. Second some hunting like deer hunting helps the people by controlling the animal population. Less deer = less people who have wrecks because of deer. Oh and third it's not torture.

  5. #5
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
    Goldenfleece is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    3,586
    Rep Power
    60

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    Too bad for Vick that he's so dependent on his speed. Players tend to slow down as they get older, and he'll be losing valuable time here. He probably won't start serving time until the off-season, and they say he's likely to get 12 to 18 months. If he serves 18 months from the end of the regular season, that would have him getting out right before the start of the 2009 season. By then, he'd be a rusty 29 year old who was never that accurate. Even if the league says let him play, I don't know if it would be worth it to anyone to sign him.

  6. #6
    laram0's Avatar
    laram0 is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Age
    57
    Posts
    9,277
    Rep Power
    109

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    It's a great debate whether Vick will be back in the NFL or not. I hate to say it but there will be a team that will want Vick and do what ever it takes to clear his scarred name.

    My personal opinion is that he should be banned from the NFL for life. PERIOD!

    Is the Pete Rose gambling issue more serious than this Vick catastrophe?

  7. #7
    BigGameMN's Avatar
    BigGameMN is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Age
    32
    Posts
    720
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    I almost 100% confident that he will never be back as a QB . A few teams may want to see what he can do in a "slash" type of role, kinda like Kordell Stewart. The only way he ever gets back as a QB is if Al Davis is still running the Raiders.

  8. #8
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,849
    Rep Power
    169

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    Apparently, the NAACP now stands for the "National Association for the Advancement of Cruelty to Pooches."

  9. #9
    itsguud's Avatar
    itsguud is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Newfoundland
    Posts
    1,253
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    I think he should be allwoed back in...

    I'm more liberal then most everyone on issues so most... won't agree with me but I always thought that the American judical and criminal systems were based on the reformation of troubled individules. If that is true, and I think it is at least supposed to be the way that the system in the US works, then shouldn't you all be giving Vick a chance to "change"? It seems to me that you are all jumping on Vick and how much you hate him, which is fine... right now. But if all of you agree and say that "he should never be allowed back into the NFL" then aren't you all part of the bigger problem?... You've all condemned the guy for life and he hasn't even been sentenced yet.

    My question to everyone on this fourm who has come out-right to say that Vick should never be allowed back in the NFL; What is the point of your said criminal system if not for reform?

  10. #10
    HUbison's Avatar
    HUbison is online now Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    40
    Posts
    13,643
    Rep Power
    145

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    Quote Originally Posted by itsguud
    I always thought that the American judical and criminal systems were based on the reformation of troubled individules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Webster's
    Criminal justice - the system of legislation, practices, and organizations, used by government or the state, which are all directed to maintain social control, deter and control crime, and sanctioning those who violate laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by President's Commission on Law Enforcement and Administration of Justice (1967). The Challenge of Crime in a Free Society. U.S. Government Printing Office.
    the criminal justice system is the means for society to "enforce the standards of conduct necessary to protect individuals and the community".
    The U.S. criminal system's purpose has nothing to do with the reformation of criminals. It has more to do with the removal of criminals and the restraint of criminals than the reformation of criminals.

    Having said that, the NFL is not the U.S. criminal system, and as such, I disagree with those who want a lifetime ban for Michael Vick. I don't like the guy, and what he did is one of the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. However, when he has finished serving his appointed time in the pen, I have no problem with him returning to the NFL. Let the NFL hand him a suspension, but not a lifetime ban.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  11. #11
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
    Goldenfleece is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    3,586
    Rep Power
    60

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    Quote Originally Posted by itsguud View Post
    But if all of you agree and say that "he should never be allowed back into the NFL" then aren't you all part of the bigger problem?... You've all condemned the guy for life and he hasn't even been sentenced yet.

    My question to everyone on this fourm who has come out-right to say that Vick should never be allowed back in the NFL; What is the point of your said criminal system if not for reform?
    The purpose of the criminal justice system and the purpose of the National Football League are two very different things. There are a lot of ideas out there about what the point of the criminal justice system should be: rehabilitation, punishment, deterrence, etc. However, the NFL is predominately about entertainment, and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that people might not want to watch a "sports hero" who seems like a scumbag. I mean are we really to expect that after serving a year or so, Vick is going to come out a whole new man. This isn't like one isolated stupid mistake (like Wroten getting caught with marijuana); it looks like he bankrolled the whole operation. According to Vick's father, Vick was staging these fights in his parents' garage and backyard circa 2001. I'm not saying this guy ought to suffer his whole life for it; I'm just saying this is not a guy I would root for. I wouldn't look up to him. I wouldn't want him on my favorite team.
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -08-24-2007 at 11:50 AM.

  12. #12
    RamFan_Til_I_Die's Avatar
    RamFan_Til_I_Die is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,154
    Rep Power
    69

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    If this were steven Jackson, LT, Peyton Manning, Chad Johnson, someone of that caliber, they'd be back. This is Michael "I couldn't complete a pass to save my life" Vick. I really think his days as a starter were numbered before this happened anyway. After possibly 2 years away from the league, his skills will have diminished even further, so from a skill standpoint there would be few takers. Add the dog killing/gambling into the mix and he's even less desireable.

    Now on to the rehabilitation. Assuming the alleged killings and the methods of killing are true,how can you rehabilitate someone like that? What type of sick individual would take a dog and beat it to death, strangle it, electrecute it, drown it, or hang it? If a dog was critically injured and unable to ever fight again, couldn't you just end it quickly with a bullet to the head or something? Only a sick, twisted person who delights in torture and killing would do it the way Vick and his cohorts did. They say this type of animal slaying is the step below the killing of humans and that serial killers and murderers started out this way. Once you've crossed that line, can you come back? I'd have to say the answer is no.

  13. #13
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is online now Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    29 Palms, Ca.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,724
    Rep Power
    129

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    Quote Originally Posted by itsguud View Post
    My question to everyone on this fourm who has come out-right to say that Vick should never be allowed back in the NFL; What is the point of your said criminal system if not for reform?
    I haven't seen many here call for Vick to get a lifetime ban, but those who do have compelling reasons IMO. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think this guy is pure evil, beyond rehabilitation.

    My question to you is this, if Vick was involved in a big time gambling operation with payments in the tens of thousands of dollars as has been reported, should he get a lifetime ban?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    Now on to the rehabilitation. Assuming the alleged killings and the methods of killing are true,how can you rehabilitate someone like that? What type of sick individual would take a dog and beat it to death, strangle it, electrecute it, drown it, or hang it? If a dog was critically injured and unable to ever fight again, couldn't you just end it quickly with a bullet to the head or something? Only a sick, twisted person who delights in torture and killing would do it the way Vick and his cohorts did. They say this type of animal slaying is the step below the killing of humans and that serial killers and murderers started out this way. Once you've crossed that line, can you come back? I'd have to say the answer is no.
    Well said Josh.

  14. #14
    itsguud's Avatar
    itsguud is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Newfoundland
    Posts
    1,253
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    Excellent... firstly, my opinion on Vick hasn't been given. I noticed some of you questioning.. or perhaps more correctly stated, thinking that I am defending Vick. My purpose for writing what I did was to simply spark debate... it worked. (PS I knew and hoped HUBsion would be the first response, always a good debate with him).

    Now, as I went online and looked it up, the United States Criminal Justice System is intened to help in the rehabilitaion of troubled individules (I seen this on a government website FYI). The NFL may not be the criminal justice system, however as I have already lost a debate earlier this off-season vs. HUB and a couple of others, on the sole principal that: "the NFL is run under the US Law"... if that is indeed the case then how, can the NFL justify not allowing Vick to play in the NFL again... ever! That would truely be hypocritical.

    How can an organization run under a Law system, as the NFL under the US, which has been pointed out to me in a past argument, which was about marjuana, decide that this player can't be reformed?

    It doesn't and shouldn't matter just the degree of how sick a person is, you can't say that one person is gone past the point of reform, which is what you are basically saying.

    I understand completely if you, me and ever single fan to ever watch the NFL doesn't want Vick to play there again, but this is terribly unfair and is how political systems fail... some people would call this a loop hole.

    Think about it this way, if it is allowed to swing this way for the "good" of the people, then who says it can't swing the other way, for the "good" of the criminal? And don't jump on me for saying this, criminal Lawyers will certainly pick up on it if I did. This is also the reason why this day and age, criminals who break into a home can after the fact sue the homeowner for injury if they get injured while committing the act. (This has happened in the States; we studied a case like this in Law this smester).

    Please, feel free and I hope that you all continue the debate, however read carefully what I have written and don't post without understanding exactly what I have said.

    EXCELLENT DEBATE RAM FANS, let no-one ever say that Ram Fans are stupid or any of the like.

  15. #15
    HUbison's Avatar
    HUbison is online now Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    40
    Posts
    13,643
    Rep Power
    145

    Re: naacp says vick should be allowed back

    I have already lost a debate earlier this off-season
    If we gain knowledge from each other, there's no winners or losers.......just two better informed parties.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Vitt comments and others
    By RamWraith in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: -11-08-2005, 02:53 PM
  2. Defense needs to slow down the Vick
    By RamWraith in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: -01-14-2005, 03:13 PM
  3. The offense, not defense, will have to stop Vick
    By RamWraith in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: -01-14-2005, 10:02 AM
  4. Vick is too slick for Rams
    By RamWraith in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: -09-20-2004, 07:12 AM
  5. Replies: 48
    Last Post: -07-01-2004, 09:49 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •