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  1. #31
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    I will chalk it up to a rookie getting caught in the heat of the moment. Preseason or no, it is still his intro to the NFL and the guy is going to be excited about it. I would make anything malicious out of it.


    EDIT: After looking through youtube and not finding it imiagine my surprise when it was on the front page of NFL.com. Anyway from what I saw Suh was reaching for the shoulderpad and caught the facemask by accident. Delhomme clearly still has the ball when he starts the tackle, but throws it away a second after contact. Suh looks to be engaged in such a way to not see delhomme throw away the ball. The rest of the tackle seems to be fairly standard, throwing the QB to the ground is nothing new and has happened since forever. Aside from the facemask (which suh clearly grabbed) I see nothing overly wrong about the play, nothing worth a fine in my opinion.
    Last edited by 01d 0rd3r; -08-30-2010 at 11:56 PM.


  2. #32
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    I'm with Mangini. Good kid, dumb play.

  3. #33
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    You just can't do that to a quarterback in the NFL, regardless of whether or not you think he has the ball. My guess is he just got caught up in the moment and was trying to make a play for his team, and just went too far. There's never been any kind of attitude or character question about this kid, so I have no doubt he wasn't trying to intentionally hurt Delhomme or anything. He'll learn.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    YouTube - Suh smashes Delhomme, (720p HD)

    Ndamukong Suh on hit: 'I can't change the way I play'
    Chris McCosky / The Detroit News
    Last Updated: August 30. 2010 1:00AM

    Allen Park --For the record, Ndamukong Suh does not care what Seneca Wallace thinks or says; he's not changing the way he plays the game.

    Wallace, the Browns backup quarterback, told reporters in Cleveland he thought Suh should get suspended for horse-collaring and tossing Jake Delhomme to the turf in the second quarter last Saturday.

    "It's unfortunate that he thinks that," said Suh, who was called for a personal foul on the play. "But it's his opinion, which he's entitled to. I just want to go out and play hard. That's my main focus and that's all I am going to do.

    "It's not my job to worry about whether I hit a guy too hard or not."

    The NFL is reviewing the play, and a league spokesman said any potential suspension would be announced before Thursday's game and fines would be announced Friday.

    "The move was a little over the top as far as a personal foul goes," Wallace told reporters. "I understand the face-mask part. But he horse-collared him and threw him down. We laughed about it, but that stuff can get people really hurt."

    Suh said he didn't realize Delhomme already had released the ball before he whipped him to the ground.

    "I was just going after the ball and trying to make a play," he said. "And that's what I will continue to do. I had no clue he let go of the ball. I just know as a defensive lineman, we want the quarterbacks and the offensive linemen to feel our presence."

    Lions coach Jim Schwartz didn't know whether Suh will get suspended, though he pointed out the Browns were flagged for a personal foul, roughing quarterback Shaun Hill in the fourth quarter.

    "They went low on a quarterback, they got a 15-yard penalty with a personal foul," Schwartz said. "Is that one that needs to be suspended?"

    Schwartz said he talked to Suh, but did nothing to discourage his aggression.

    "We talked about the difference in the NFL in terms of getting one step and then (hitting) the quarterback and the strike zone on quarterbacks," Schwartz said. "There are rules and there are penalties for the infractions. But he's trying to make a sack and there are 350-pound guys trying to keep him from a sack and the quarterback is running around. He didn't try to grab the guy's face mask, he just happened to grab it. He just didn't do a good job of pulling off after that.

    "It's easy to second-look that and say he should have done this or he should have done that. But this is part of being a young player, a part of coaching, a part of him learning how to play in the NFL and it's part of preseason football."

    Suh, who had two tackles and a pass deflection in the victory, understands that a fine could be forthcoming.

    "I know this is a different league and you get fined for these things, but I don't know," he said. "That's their decision and something that I am going to have to live with. But I can't change the way I play. If I do, then I am doing a disservice to my teammates.

    "Obviously, I am not going to go wild and hit quarterbacks in the head as hard as I can or try to do something stupid. But I am going to continue to play hard. I've slung quarterbacks before and got a personal foul and I've slung quarterbacks before and didn't get a personal foul. That's what the referee is out there for."
    Look, it was a dumb play - a potentially dangerous play - and he needs to learn from this. He can't grab quarterbacks by the facemask or sling them around in a bearhug like that after they get rid of the ball. That much is clear.

    But if I'm a Lions fan, or a Lions player, there's no way that this didn't get me fired up. And if I'm an NFC North quarterback, there's no way that doesn't make my stomach quiver a bit with anxiety.

    Perhaps the biggest issue going undiscussed about this incident is how none of the Browns' offensive lineman reacted to their quarterback being thrown around like a rag doll. If Kyle Turley played on that team, you know he would have gotten in Ndamukong's face. But the Browns seemed completely indifferent to it. Perhaps a bit of a concern for Cleveland.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Ndamukong Suh on hit: 'I can't change the way I play'
    Yea, well....you're gonna.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    Perhaps the biggest issue going undiscussed about this incident is how none of the Browns' offensive lineman reacted to their quarterback being thrown around like a rag doll.
    Bingo! As usual, Nick nails it. Why in the flip were the Browns O-linemen not monkey stomping Suh back to the corn fields of Lincoln? They just stood there with their hands on their hips.

    If I'm Delhomme, I'm kicking in the door at the next OL meeting room, and shouting, "Where the F%&K were you guys?!"
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  6. #36
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Readers' reactions to Ndamukong Suh's physical play hard to understand
    Chris McCosky
    Last Updated: August 31. 2010 1:27PM

    Allen Park -- Lions fans, love you like a brother, but I will never understand you.

    The last thing I expected was a bushel full of negative e-mails Tuesday morning regarding defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh's response to the whining out of Cleveland that he should be suspended for his hit on Jake Delhomme.

    "He can't change the way he plays?" wrote one person. "It's going to be a hell of a long season for the Lions then."

    And also this: "That's not a football play, that's playground thuggery."

    Wow, really? What did you want him to do, apologize?

    "Sorry Mr. Delhomme, I certainly didn't mean to hurt you. I have to learn to take it easy out there."

    Give me a break.

    I actually went back and read how I wrote the article, and how others wrote about Suh's reaction. I wanted to make sure his words weren't distorted or incorrectly colored in any way. And I don't think they were.

    Suh wasn't saying he plans on horse-collaring or face-masking every quarterback he can get his hands on. He wasn't trying to present himself as some reckless tormentor.

    What he was saying is it's his job to be aggressive and to get after quarterbacks and ball carriers. And if he can intimidate them or get them looking over their shoulder to see if he's around, all the better.

    In case you didn't read all the way to the bottom of the story, listen to what Suh is saying here: "I can't change the way I play. If I do, then I am doing a disservice to my teammates. Obviously, I am not going to go wild and hit quarterbacks in the head as hard as I can or try to do something stupid. But I am going to continue to play hard."

    I cannot believe that drew a negative response. With what we've watched from the defenses around here recently, I would think that kind of steadfast passion and intensity would be cheered. Don't you want the Lions' defensive linemen to play with an edge? Don't you want their defensive players to err on the side of aggression? Don't you want them just a bit psycho?

    If he takes the odd 15-yard penalty in the process, so be it. If it got to the point where he was racking them up as fast as Rasheed Wallace gets technical fouls, then we can discuss a possible problem.

    But Ndamukong Suh is tremendously driven and he might end up being the most exciting defensive player we've seen around here since, man, who knows, Chris Spielman?

    You guys are entitled to your opinion, and God bless you for your unflagging interest in this team, but I think you got it wrong on this one.
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  7. #37
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Don't you want them just a bit psycho? If he takes the odd 15-yard penalty in the process, so be it.
    Preach it brother. Preach it!

    Sincerely,
    Richie Incognito
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #38
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris McCosky
    In case you didn't read all the way to the bottom of the story, listen to what Suh is saying here: "I can't change the way I play. If I do, then I am doing a disservice to my teammates. Obviously, I am not going to go wild and hit quarterbacks in the head as hard as I can or try to do something stupid. But I am going to continue to play hard."
    I'm guessing people wanted him to be a bit more conciliatory in his explanation of the play in question. Grabbing an opponents head with both arms and twisting for all your worth was dangerous, plain and simple. He never says he shouldn't have done it or that he went too far, which he did. He didn't convey any remorse about it as well, which again, is what I think people wanted to hear. In case Chris McCosky didn't read to the bottom of his own story, he should listen to what Suh added:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ndamukung Suh
    I've slung quarterbacks before and got a personal foul and I've slung quarterbacks before and didn't get a personal foul. That's what the referee is out there for."
    Sounds to me like he plans on continuing the practice of "slinging" quarterbacks around, which begs the question, did he really learn anything here?

  9. #39
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Sounds to me like he plans on continuing the practice of "slinging" quarterbacks around, which begs the question, did he really learn anything here?
    From the looks of things, I doubt it and that makes me start to love Bradford more and more than I once did.

  10. #40
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Sounds to me like he plans on continuing the practice of "slinging" quarterbacks around, which begs the question, did he really learn anything here?
    Judging by the sentence just earlier in that paragraph - "Obviously, I am not going to go wild and hit quarterbacks in the head as hard as I can or try to do something stupid." - I'd wager he did.

    I think the point he's trying to make is that he's not going to stop going after the quarterback or hesitate because he's worried about whether or not he's going to get a penalty. His job is to get to the quarterback, and that's what he plans on doing.

    On this instance, he went too far, and all indications are it was unintentional. But who wouldn't want that kind of intensity and drive in their defensive linemen?
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  11. #41
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Judging by the sentence just earlier in that paragraph - "Obviously, I am not going to go wild and hit quarterbacks in the head as hard as I can or try to do something stupid." - I'd wager he did.

    I think the point he's trying to make is that he's not going to stop going after the quarterback or hesitate because he's worried about whether or not he's going to get a penalty. His job is to get to the quarterback, and that's what he plans on doing.

    On this instance, he went too far, and all indications are it was unintentional. But who wouldn't want that kind of intensity and drive in their defensive linemen?
    Being aggresive and going after the quarterback is one thing, but saying he's not going to worry about getting a penalty basaed on how he hits one is wreckless and potentially damaging to the teammates he's trying so hard to impress. He definitely needs to be cognizant of his actions on the field and play within the confines of NFL rules. What he did in college is not going to fly in a league that is under tremendous scrutiny over catastrophic injuries.

    As far as wanting that kind of intensity and drive, I had it with Incognito and it was infuriating. It's all about how that intensity and drive is channeled. My guess is Suh will actually change the way he plays, but only after some attitude adjustment.

    It will be intereseting to see what punishment the NFL gives him, but a suspension would not surprise me at all.

  12. #42
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    As far as wanting that kind of intensity and drive, I had it with Incognito and it was infuriating. It's all about how that intensity and drive is channeled. My guess is Suh will actually change the way he plays, but only after some attitude adjustment.
    Well, I think it's rather premature to start mentioning Suh and Incognito in the same discussion. Kind of apples to oranges there, IMO, but I understand the point you're trying to get across.

    As for the bolded comment, it's hard to say whether there will be an attitude adjustment, or if one is even necessary. Suh specifically said he's not gunning for the heads of quarterbacks, but on top of that, the article elaborates that Schwartz "talked to Suh, but did nothing to discourage his aggression."

    And really, I agree with Schwartz's approach to this. The last thing you want to do is discourage your young defensive tackle from being aggressive and going all out, because you run the risk of hindering the kind of impact he can have.

    The last thing Schwartz wants is Suh closing in on the quarterback, thinking to himself, "Wait, should I hit this guy? Or am I going to get flagged?" and then hesitating to make a positive play for his team. And I think that's the point Suh was trying to make with some of his other comments - he's going to continue to play hard and try to make plays for his team.
    Last edited by Nick; -08-31-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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  13. #43
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Well, I think it's rather premature to start mentioning Suh and Incognito in the same discussion. Kind of apples to oranges there, IMO, but I understand the point you're trying to get across.

    As for the bolded comment, it's hard to say whether there will be an attitude adjustment, or if one is even necessary. Suh specifically said he's not gunning for the heads of quarterbacks, but on top of that, the article elaborates that Schwartz "talked to Suh, but did nothing to discourage his aggression."

    And really, I agree with Schwartz's approach to this. The last thing you want to do is discourage your young defensive tackle from being aggressive and going all out, because you run the risk of hindering the kind of impact he can have.

    The last thing Schwartz wants is Suh closing in on the quarterback, thinking to himself, "Wait, should I hit this guy? Or am I going to get flagged?" and then hesitating to make a positive play for his team. And I think that's the point Suh was trying to make with some of his other comments - he's going to continue to play hard and try to make plays for his team.
    I just didn't like the way a kid I had a lot of repect for dealt with the incident. His words were defiant, and they angered a lot of Detriot Lions fans, which is telling. His explanation was that he thought Delhomme still had the ball, but that doesn't explain grabbing and twisting Delomme's head and then "slinging him to the ground. He says he won't do anything stupid (so I'm assuming the treatment of Delhomme was an isolated incident), but that he also won't change the way he plays, which apparantly includes regularly "slinging" quarterbacks to the ground. My guess is that he'll be flagged nearly every time he "slings" a quarterback in the future, so it would probably be a good idea for him show some restraint in the way he plays down the line. If Ray Lewis and Julius Peppers can be aggresive without costing their team, so can Suh.

    As far as Schwartz, I agree with him on the intitial facemask not being intentional and that Suh was just trying to make a play, but he also made the point that Suh did not do a good job of "pulling off after that". That's where Suh will have to change the way he plays and I'm sure Schwartz let that be known. Again, aggression is a good thing when it's controlled.

  14. #44
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    I actually watched the game in question up to & a bit beyond that play. Suh did not play well. He was slow off the snap on every play & missed a tackle on the LOS which seemed to get him benched for a while before the rodeo move on Delhomme. So there may have been more frustration than malice involved. I think it looked worse in slo-mo than live. Even The Browns commentators kind of laughed it off.

    Anyway,so much for the pro-Suh campaign's argument that this kid would dominate from the get-go. So far he has 3 tackles & a tantrum on the stat sheet. If he can't channel that aggression within the bounds of legal play, I would take out some extra insurance on my knees if I were him...or Stafford, for that matter. I can't see players like Jared Allen, et al, taking kindly to that kind of upstart rudeness to their QB.

    Hmmm... who'd be the enforcer on The Rams if Sam got planted like that? Jason Brown ?

  15. #45
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Ndamukong Suh's facemask against Jake Delhomme

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I just didn't like the way a kid I had a lot of repect for dealt with the incident.
    Fair enough, we can agree to disagree here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    Anyway,so much for the pro-Suh campaign's argument that this kid would dominate from the get-go. So far he has 3 tackles & a tantrum on the stat sheet.
    That's the thing about defensive linemen. Their contributions don't always show up on the stat sheet. I believe Suh was credited with a single tackle against the Broncos, but one Detroit Free Press writer wrote that he "lived in Denver's backfield for most of the four series he played."

    If you want an example closer to home, look at the Rams/Patriots preseason game. Fred Robbins came out of that game with a sack, but it was Chris Long's penetration that caused the play. You'll notice Long doesn't even show up on the box score.

    Now, I'm not trying to suggest that Suh is dominating out of the gate. He may not be, based upon what you saw against Detroit. I haven't had a chance to watch him myself this preseason. I'm simply saying the stat sheet might not be the best indication of the impact he's having for the Lions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    Hmmm... who'd be the enforcer on The Rams if Sam got planted like that? Jason Brown ?
    Great question. Hopefully we don't have to find out.
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