Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 63
  1. #46
    Rambos's Avatar
    Rambos is online now Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Cali
    Age
    50
    Posts
    9,143
    Rep Power
    75

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Scenario for you AV

    I’m playing CB, the offensive has the ball on their own 20 yard line. We have called a safety blitz; I know I have no help over the top. If I get beat off the line of scrimmage it’s a big play maybe a touch down. The ball is snapped, the WR gives a quick move within 4 or 5 yards, and I bite on it. I know I have no help, just me one on one. Two thoughts go through my mind. One let the guy get behind me and try and stay with him, not a good thing. Second is knowingly committing a penalty, and grab the guy and try and slow him down.

    Do I cheat and grab the guy to save a TD and say hey it’s the smart thing to do, or do I say, I will let the guy get behind me because thats cheating?


    I would grab the guy and take the flag, thats the smart play and it’s within the rules. If I hold a guy, it is what it is, just a penalty. If the ref, for whatever reason does not call it, does that make me a cheater in you mind?

    I would say no, I’m expecting a flag, I know what I did, but I can’t call holding on myself. It’s not basketball when you here the whistle you rise your hand.

    So much for me getting off this topic, one thing for sure this thread is not Once and For All…


  2. #47
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,626
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    In your hypothetical, the DB may have to risk a penalty to avoid a TD.

    That has very little to do with what the Patriots were guilty of doing.

  3. #48
    Rambos's Avatar
    Rambos is online now Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Cali
    Age
    50
    Posts
    9,143
    Rep Power
    75

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    In your hypothetical, the DB may have to risk a penalty to avoid a TD
    I would say tour right, grab the guy.


    I’m not concerned with the Pat’s. I want to know if I’m cheater if I commit this act, knowing it’s against the rules.

    Because that’s what I meant by if your not cheating your not trying. I would never advocate anything to hurt a player or do what D Lewis did last year. Some times it's the only thing you can do...

  4. #49
    Fat Pang's Avatar
    Fat Pang is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,603
    Rep Power
    64

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    No, Ferter. What I meant was, you essentially haven't said anything other than "I disagree" for the last three or four posts or so. Consequently, I have no interest in trying to impress upon you once again that I don't agree with the way you see things, and never will (and vice versa).
    As a relatively (gibberish?) educated man I have to say that I am somewhat taken aback by having my opinion labelled as "gibberish" by a moderator. Furthermore, I would suggest that had this infantile subjective comment been posted by anyone else then we may have seen the posts deletion.

    I also have to say that to term my comments "relativist gibberish" and then assert later in the thread that interpretation is valid "Look, it all comes down to opinions and interpretations in the end" is rank inconsistency.

    People are going to post opinion on this board and I don't believe that the correct way of dealing with it is to accuse them of de-railing the thread ( a method used countless times), close the thread (Used more than once) delete the post as unecessary (Used more than once) or ridicule them with language that masquerades as informed comment. (Relativist gibberish)

    Please feel free to delete this post and thereby prove my point.

    Otherwise, please grant me the benefit of your limitless condecension.

  5. #50
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,626
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    I want to know if Iím cheater if I commit this act, knowing itís against the rules.
    If you do it once with the expectation of paying the price, I would say that you are not a cheater.

    If you do it 10 plays in a row with the expectation that you'll only get caught once, I would say you are a cheater.

  6. #51
    Rambos's Avatar
    Rambos is online now Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Cali
    Age
    50
    Posts
    9,143
    Rep Power
    75

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    10 plays in a row with the expectation that you'll only get caught once
    My expectation is that a flag will always be thrown it’s the rule. I’m not basing my decision to grab a guy on the fact that one will be thrown. I just don’t want to give up a big play.

    Am I within the rules to do this, 10 times a game?
    Last edited by Rambos; -04-12-2006 at 01:10 AM.

  7. #52
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,626
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Either way you're outside the rules. Just as second degree manslaughter and first degree murder are both crimes - though of different types and degrees.

  8. #53
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
    Goldenfleece is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    3,586
    Rep Power
    60

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    In my mind, cheating is what it is, regardless of the circumstances. If you break the rules intentionally, you are on some level a cheater. Av took my example, but if somebody killed one of my family members, I could care less whether they did it willing to accept the punishment. If I'm a Ram, and I feel like the other team broke the rules and got away with it, I'm going to resent them for it.

    The issue boils down to gamesmanship vs. sportsmanship. If you lean towards the former, you do whatever it takes to win. In the instance you described, if you can stop a touchdown, you do whatever it takes...push him, grab him, trip him, facemask him, whatever. It's just a matter of degree. Penalties come with the territory, but the gain is worth it. On the other end of the spectrum is the sportsman, who says you beat me without breaking the rules, so now I've got to try even harder to stop the touchdown. If the other team is better than you are within the constraints of the rules, they deserve to win. The rules are designed to tell people what is acceptable, not what the price is if they want to play a certain way.

    Realistically, there are some positions where you just expect that they'll push the boundaries of what is acceptable. The game is so competitive that gamesmanship is preferred over sportsmanship, and failure to enforce the rules in effect encourages people to cheat.

    New England was particularly bad about it. I remember seeing an SI poll a year or two ago about who NFL players thought was the dirtiest player in the game, and Rodney Harrison took over twice as many votes as the second place player. I didn't see a lot of dirty play in this last Super Bowl, just a lot of close calls.

  9. #54
    ramsbruce's Avatar
    ramsbruce is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    FIRING SCHOTTY
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,611
    Rep Power
    52

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    As a relatively (gibberish?) educated man I have to say that I am somewhat taken aback by having my opinion labelled as "gibberish" by a moderator. Furthermore, I would suggest that had this infantile subjective comment been posted by anyone else then we may have seen the posts deletion.

    I also have to say that to term my comments "relativist gibberish" and then assert later in the thread that interpretation is valid "Look, it all comes down to opinions and interpretations in the end" is rank inconsistency.

    People are going to post opinion on this board and I don't believe that the correct way of dealing with it is to accuse them of de-railing the thread ( a method used countless times), close the thread (Used more than once) delete the post as unecessary (Used more than once) or ridicule them with language that masquerades as informed comment. (Relativist gibberish)

    Please feel free to delete this post and thereby prove my point.

    Otherwise, please grant me the benefit of your limitless condecension.
    Utterblitz was wondering earlier if the cat had Fat Pang's tongue. After this post, that question has been answered.
    BRUUUUUUUUUUUCE


  10. #55
    bigredman's Avatar
    bigredman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    El Paso, Texas
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,815
    Rep Power
    61

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Sheeeeesh....All players cheat. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin' to win. I broke the rules when I used to play, I coach players to use certain techniques that are against the rules, but can be hidden from officials. Its alway been this way, and will always be. As a player and coach, you get to know officials and know what they are calling and not calling. You'd be a fool not to take advantage of it. Whether the Rams or the Seahawks got screwed because certain rules were not either caught or called is immaterial. If one team took advantage of these circumstances and the other didn't, OH WELL.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  11. #56
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,626
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    How did the Steelers take advantage of the refs' tendencies?

    Did their DBs get together and say "hey, let the Hawks' WRs push off and hope the refs call offensive pass interference like they're supposed to"?

    Did the D-linemen say to themselves "I don't need to get to the QB because Sean Locklear is bound to hold on this play"?

    Did Big Ben say "Okay, I'll dive near the goal-line. Whether I get in or not, the refs will give me a TD"?

  12. #57
    bigredman's Avatar
    bigredman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    El Paso, Texas
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,815
    Rep Power
    61

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    How did the Steelers take advantage of the refs' tendencies?
    Did their DBs get together and say "hey, let the Hawks' WRs push off and hope the refs call offensive pass interference like they're supposed to"?
    Yes, I teach the DB's to "react" to the receiver placing their hands on them, much like a "flop" to gain the attention of the official for offensive pass interference.


    Did the D-linemen say to themselves "I don't need to get to the QB because Sean Locklear is bound to hold on this play"?
    Yes, I teach D-linemen to twist and sprint to emphasize when a lineman has either ahold of their jersey or their hand is outside their torso.

    Did Big Ben say "Okay, I'll dive near the goal-line. Whether I get in or not, the refs will give me a TD"?
    Ummmmmmm. Camera angles. That's it. Camera angles!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  13. #58
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,626
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    Yes, I teach the DB's to "react" to the receiver placing their hands on them, much like a "flop" to gain the attention of the official for offensive pass interference.
    That's not what happened. The Seahawks' receiver clearly pushed off.

    Yes, I teach D-linemen to twist and sprint to emphasize when a lineman has either ahold of their jersey or their hand is outside their torso.
    Again, not what happened. Locklear had a handful of jersey.

    Ummmmmmm. Camera angles. That's it. Camera angles!
    You know, you may be right. I never considered the possibility that the Steelers were responsible for the placement of the cameras.

  14. #59
    bigredman's Avatar
    bigredman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    El Paso, Texas
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,815
    Rep Power
    61

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    That's not what happened. The Seahawks' receiver clearly pushed off.
    Right, and did the DB "sell" it. No, he resisted and attempted to play through the push off.

    Again, not what happened. Locklear had a handful of jersey.
    Again, did the opposing player "sell" it. No, he fought through what was obviously happening to him all night, which brings me back to my point about official's tendancies.

    You know, you may be right. I never considered the possibility that the Steelers were responsible for the placement of the cameras.
    Ah ha...didn't you see the post after the Super Bowl here on Clan Ram where the Steeler's head coach is caught handing money to the officials?
    Last edited by bigredman; -04-11-2006 at 11:56 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  15. #60
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is online now Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    29 Palms, Ca.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,465
    Rep Power
    128

    Re: Once and For All: The Difference Between the Rams' and Seahawks' Super Bowl Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    Hell, Avenger has told me I'm full of crap, and I agree with him!
    Wow, who's your daddy!LOL

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •