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  1. #16
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    Re: Opening Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I think to say they got robbed is stretching it. Even if the play gets reviewed and overturned, Pittsburgh still has the ball on the one yard line with loads of momentum. Yes, anything can happen, but I think it's reasonable to assume that even if they don't punch it in for the touchdown they get three points from a field goal and tie the game. Culpepper still went on to throw two costly picks, so Miami had more than their fair chance to win this game and blew it.

    As for Saban, with the buzzers gone, Saban has to know that he has to get the official's attention with the flag. He was on the fence about it until the very last minute, and then when he finally decides, he gives this halfhearted toss that's no where near where the official is looking. If it's going to be the coach's responsibility to control the challenges, then it should be the coach's responsibility to make sure their challenge is seen, IMO. Saban can't expect the officiating crew to constantly be watching him to see if he wants to challenge. They need to be watching the game.
    I don't think it's stretching it, anything could happen. I don't even like Miami, in fact I dislike them more than most teams, but that was a horrible.

    So now we are judging flag throwing techniques? Who knows why he waited so long, his booth was slow, maybe he was hoping for a replay he could see (which was unlikely since they are on the road) but who knows. The point is the flag was thrown before the kick plain and simple.

    The purpose of replay is to get it right, so why can't the NFL/Refs go look at a tape that clearly shows him throwing the flag before the kick. I don't expect the refs to watch Saban, but when he says hey I threw the flag they need to look at the tape. There is no reason why the refs shouldn't be allowed to look at that split screen that we all saw with Saban throwing the flag before the kick.

    So no matter why he was skeptical, how he threw the flag, where the refs were or weren't looking, the fact remains he threw the flag before the kick.


  2. #17
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    Re: Opening Game Tonight

    Sabin did treat the situation half heartedly, which did confuse and surprise me.
    Allowing that non call certainly had an impact on the outcome of the game. Let's just say that the play is reviewed and the Steelers are held to a FG to tie the game. So now the Dolphins offensive approach is different, closer to the vest like most of the game was for them anyway. Instead, being down on the road and the Steelers ability to run the ball and eat up the clock the Fins start to open up the O and Culpepper throws the 2 costly int's. Taking the 4 points off the board would/could have been huge. Guess we'll never know.

    It's sad to now that everyone watching that game knew Sabin threw the flag but that 1 official didn't. I'm not a fan of the Dolphins and I don't hate the Steelers but that whole scenario just plain sucked.


  3. #18
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Opening Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    So now we are judging flag throwing techniques?
    Of course! Because the purpose of the flag is to be able to get the official's attention and alert them that you want to challenge. Thus, when you throw it at a time and in a manner that counteracts that, you're doing yourself a disservice and can't blame the officials when they miss it. That's typically why you see coaches heave the thing out onto the field or stand next to an official during the decision making process rather than just dump it off like a gumwrapper beside them. Because if the only thing that matters is the flag hitting the field, then heck, they could throw it toward their bench, toward the stands, to their coordinator, anywhere... but the important thing is to throw it so the officials can see it, and Saban didn't do that.

    The way I see it, if Saban was on the fence at all about whether or not to challenge, he should have already either called the officials over or made his way down the sideline towards one. Instead, he stood around and did nothing, and then at the last possible minute, throws the flag. But by that time the officials are awaiting the next play, and instead of throwing the flag where it can be seem, he limply sends it onto the field.

    I just really don't see this as a black and white did he or did he not throw the flag before the play. He could have thrown the flag during the play, but if he doesn't do it in the manner it was intended - so the officials can see it and recognize he's making a challenge - then it's pointless.

    I think that about wraps up my opinion on the matter. Nice debate, RB.

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  4. #19
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    Re: Opening Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Of course! Because the purpose of the flag is to be able to get the official's attention and alert them that you want to challenge. Thus, when you throw it at a time and in a manner that counteracts that, you're doing yourself a disservice and can't blame the officials when they miss it. That's typically why you see coaches heave the thing out onto the field or stand next to an official during the decision making process rather than just dump it off like a gumwrapper beside them. Because if the only thing that matters is the flag hitting the field, then heck, they could throw it toward their bench, toward the stands, to their coordinator, anywhere... but the important thing is to throw it so the officials can see it, and Saban didn't do that.

    The way I see it, if Saban was on the fence at all about whether or not to challenge, he should have already either called the officials over or made his way down the sideline towards one. Instead, he stood around and did nothing, and then at the last possible minute, throws the flag. But by that time the officials are awaiting the next play, and instead of throwing the flag where it can be seem, he limply sends it onto the field.

    I just really don't see this as a black and white did he or did he not throw the flag before the play. He could have thrown the flag during the play, but if he doesn't do it in the manner it was intended - so the officials can see it and recognize he's making a challenge - then it's pointless.

    I think that about wraps up my opinion on the matter. Nice debate, RB.
    Judging flag throwing could be dangerous. Say for example another coach does try to throw it far and close to the ref, but it slips and doesn't go far and the ref doesn't see it, so he gets "robbed" also? It's a poor system especially now without the buzzers.

    It shouldn't be pointless, he still got the flag on the field before the play started. My real beef is with the NFL or the NFL rules comittee, because Saban should have been able to say to the ref "hey I threw the flag, you didn't see it, check the replay." The purpose of replay is to get it right, they couldn't even check to see when the flag was thrown why, because that's just the silliness of the NFL and some of the ridiculous rules in place.

    Good debate, Nick.

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