Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34
  1. #1
    moklerman's Avatar
    moklerman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,597
    Rep Power
    18

    There seems to be some confusion...

    ...about where my loyalties lay so I will clear it up for everyone. At this pont in time, I'm a Kurt Warner fan. Not a Cardinals fan. Truth be told, I'm not much of a St. Louis Rams fan at this point.

    I'm still a huge L.A. Rams fan but in all honesty, too many of the things management/coaching has done to "my" Rams has turned me off. I'm not going to compile a list but supporting the current franchise just seems wrong to me. Kind of like rooting for Philly in the Super Bowl. Yeah, I wanted the Patriots to lose but it just felt wrong to pull for McNabb, Kearse, etc.

    I know a lot of you guys feel blind allegiance is the way to go and have contempt for someone like me who doesn't support the Rams 110% no matter what they do. But, just like the early '90's, when the Rams were a mess and doing things that didn't deserve my support, I had Everett to follow and root for. I wasn't a Saints fan, I was an Everett fan.

    Warner, like Everett, will always be a Ram so following him let's me enjoy the Rams without having to watch their special teams (they'll fix 'em this year, <wink, wink>), defense, 12 cylinder Jaguar engine offense run like it's a lawnmower with a bad plug, bad drafts, etc. Hell, if you want to get right down to it, they've even screwed up the uniforms.

    So, while I will follow along with the Rams just like I always do, I will also be enjoying and rooting for Kurt Warner. And yes, just like I hope Dilfer sticks it to Baltimore twice a year I hope Warner does that to the Rams. It's not about rooting against the Rams it's about some form of retribution. If you can convince me that choosing to bench a qb a year removed from an MVP and Super Bowl, in the prime of his career, coming off of injury, that was proclaimed the starter and given a huge bonus, for an unproven qb that was struggling as much or more, then I will change my mind.

    Until then, Martz, Bulger, Marmie, etc. are all associated with bad memories and I simply can't get enthusiastic about supporting them. I wasn't enthusiastic about Brooks and Walsh either. I just waited things out. Just like now.


  2. #2
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,491
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    There's no confusion at all.


    You're not a Ram fan. That's fine. This is America. You are free to choose to be a fan of whatever team you wish.

    You can root for Warner and, by association, for the Cardinals if you wish. Don't think you'll get much satisfaction there (unless a 7-9 to 9-7 finish is satisfying to you), but hey, that's your choice.

    We Ram fans will do just fine without you among our ranks.

  3. #3
    thoey's Avatar
    thoey is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas, United States
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,017
    Rep Power
    32

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Actually, We Rams Fans will do just fine with Mok amongst our Ranks. Please quit thinking you speak for the rest of us AV...
    This space for rent...

  4. #4
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,491
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    I'm not speaking for anyone. Mok spoke for himself.


    What part of
    I'm not much of a St. Louis Rams fan at this point
    was unclear?

    What part of
    I will also be enjoying and rooting for Kurt Warner. And yes, just like I hope Dilfer sticks it to Baltimore twice a year I hope Warner does that to the Rams.
    was unclear?

    He's not a Ram fan and that's... okay.

  5. #5
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    29 Palms, Ca.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,239
    Rep Power
    127

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    Actually, We Rams Fans will do just fine with Mok amongst our Ranks. Please quit thinking you speak for the rest of us AV...
    Agreed. I have no problems with Mok, regardless of how he feels about the Rams at this point in time.

  6. #6
    moklerman's Avatar
    moklerman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,597
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    (unless a 7-9 to 9-7 finish is satisfying to you
    The question is: Is it satisfying to YOU?

  7. #7
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,491
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    Agreed. I have no problems with Mok, regardless of how he feels about the Rams at this point in time.
    Boy, there really seems to be a reading comprehension problem on this board.

    When I said he's not "among our ranks," I meant he is not a Ram fan. That doesn't mean you have to "have a problem with him." Heck, I don't have a problem with SevenLowry, and he's a Whiner fan. But don't tell me that Mok is a Ram fan when he posts the things he posts. At best, he's a former Ram fan.

  8. #8
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,491
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    The question is: Is it satisfying to YOU?
    That actually is NOT "the question," but since you asked... no, I'm not satisfied with a 7-9 to 9-7 season (with the possible exception of 1979 when the Rams went to the big show and almost pulled off a huge upset after going 9-7).

    Of course, among your fellow Warner/Cardinal fans, you'll probably find many people who would be thrilled with a 9-7 season.

  9. #9
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,300
    Rep Power
    153

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    Actually, We Rams Fans will do just fine with Mok amongst our Ranks.
    I'm not sure how you can really consider him "amongst our ranks" in terms of still being a part of the Ram fan community, after he made the following statements...

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Truth be told, I'm not much of a St. Louis Rams fan at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    So, while I will follow along with the Rams just like I always do, I will also be enjoying and rooting for Kurt Warner. And yes, just like I hope Dilfer sticks it to Baltimore twice a year I hope Warner does that to the Rams.
    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Until then, Martz, Bulger, Marmie, etc. are all associated with bad memories and I simply can't get enthusiastic about supporting them.
    It seems pretty clear based on what Mok has written that he really isn't much of a Rams fan at this point. I think a subtle, perhaps unintentional, but interesting section was when he said he would merely follow along with the Rams, but would be enjoying and rooting for Warner - it should be noted that he didn't say he'd be rooting for the Rams, but just following along. Whether or not that's exactly how he meant it to come across, I think that's a very telling statement.

    It sounds to me like Mok has made his position very clear - he hates the current front office, hates how they handled Warner's specific situation, and thus will not support them while they are in power. If I've summarized his position incorrectly, then I would appreciate him correcting me. But I think I got the just of it.

    To each their own, I guess. He's certainly welcome to his opinions and, if this is the route he wants to take, well, that's his call. There's certainly no rule book on how to be a fan and what you must do. But that said, we're also welcome to our own opinions on the matter. And while I might not have been among the ranks of Ram fans for as long as others, it would certainly take more than this Warner situation to drive me away from the team I've grown to love, respect, and admire. And looking at what Mok has said, in my personal honest opinion, it doesn't sound like he's a Ram fan - like he's "amongst our ranks" in that respect - any longer.

    At any rate, I hope cheering for Warner and the Cardinals, if only by association through the quarterback, revitalizes Mok's passion for football and his enjoyment of the game in a way that the Rams have been unable to do as of recent.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Two
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



  10. #10
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    29 Palms, Ca.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,239
    Rep Power
    127

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    Boy, there really seems to be a reading comprehension problem on this board.

    When I said he's not "among our ranks," I meant he is not a Ram fan. That doesn't mean you have to "have a problem with him." Heck, I don't have a problem with SevenLowry, and he's a Whiner fan. But don't tell me that Mok is a Ram fan when he posts the things he posts. At best, he's a former Ram fan.
    This is what happens when you get into the whole "us vs. them", "you're not one of us", finger pointing thing.

  11. #11
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,491
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Mok is the consummate fair weather fan.

    If things are to his liking, and the team's doing well, he's a fan. If not, he puts his fan status "on hold" and roots for an ex-player to "stick it to" the Rams.

    How much do you want to bet that if the Rams go 14-2 and make the Super Bowl, all the sins of the front office, and all the disdain for Martz, Marmie and Bulger, will simply disappear and he'll be right back here cheering the Rams on with the rest of us.

    Being a fan may be hard to define, but I'd like to think that it includes sticking with the team through thick and thin, not just jumping ship when things aren't to your liking.

  12. #12
    thoey's Avatar
    thoey is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas, United States
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,017
    Rep Power
    32

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    Boy, there really seems to be a reading comprehension problem on this board.

    When I said he's not "among our ranks," I meant he is not a Ram fan. That doesn't mean you have to "have a problem with him." Heck, I don't have a problem with SevenLowry, and he's a Whiner fan. But don't tell me that Mok is a Ram fan when he posts the things he posts. At best, he's a former Ram fan.
    Here I thought "once a Rams fan, always a Rams fan". Silly me. I guess if you don't drink the koolaide, you should be quiet and sit in the corner...

    There are those on this site, some very active people, some not so active, that have their agenda, their opinion. Any thread with a difference of opinion or agenda from theirs is immediately heckle, lambasted, and/or filled with stats to the contrary. Some of those fact have merit, and I have seen opinions change. Some are just enough garbage to cloud the issue, make the thread die, and allow everyone to go back to the koolaide.

    I am not mentioning any names. If reading that causes a reactionary tick, then it is probably you...
    This space for rent...

  13. #13
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,491
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Thoey, you need to sit in a quiet room and read Mok's post again. Slowly. Use a dictionary if there are words you don't understand. Ask a friend to explain the parts that you can't comprehend.


    He's not criticizing the Rams. Criticizing the team is Job 1 of the fan.

    He's abandoning the team.

    There's no abiguity here.

    He has readily admitted that he's not going to root for the Rams, but rather will root for Kurt Warner (who, in case you missed the news, is now a Cardinal).

    If you can't see that, you're either illiterate, or perhaps you're the one with the "agenda."

  14. #14
    thoey's Avatar
    thoey is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas, United States
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,017
    Rep Power
    32

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    Mok is the consummate fair weather fan.

    If things are to his liking, and the team's doing well, he's a fan. If not, he puts his fan status "on hold" and roots for an ex-player to "stick it to" the Rams.

    How much do you want to bet that if the Rams go 14-2 and make the Super Bowl, all the sins of the front office, and all the disdain for Martz, Marmie and Bulger, will simply disappear and he'll be right back here cheering the Rams on with the rest of us.

    Being a fan may be hard to define, but I'd like to think that it includes sticking with the team through thick and thin, not just jumping ship when things aren't to your liking.
    You know, we went through this same thing last year. There were those of us that were pissed with the way that the KW issue was handled. We were also not really ecstatic for the way the front office and coaches were trying to make our team better. We were slammed for saying the Rams were going to have a none too spectacular season. Sent to our own room to quietly talk amongst ourselves.

    Yet, when the season started being played something happened. Us negative people (can't remember the cute nickname I gave us) were a lot better judge of the season than those Rose Colored Glasses wearers. Yeah, we made the playoffs (Barely). Yeah, we won the first round (Against a divisional rival that fell apart). So yes, you can consider last year a successful year and be happy with the staff. I don't and am not.

    And as for the paragraph I bolded, I seem to remember you jumping to the negative side last year when things weren't going well. I guess it is a do as I say, not as I do sort of thing...
    This space for rent...

  15. #15
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,491
    Rep Power
    167

    Re: There seems to be some confusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    And as for the paragraph I bolded, I seem to remember you jumping to the negative side last year when things weren't going well. I guess it is a do as I say, not as I do sort of thing...
    I defy you to show me one post in which I stated that, because the Rams were not doing as well as I would have liked, I was going to root for some ex-Ram player to "stick it to" the Rams, or that I was "not much of a Ram fan" anymore.

    Again, you seem to be completely unable to perceive the difference between criticizing the team and abandoning the team.

    I'll try one more time to illustrate this for you. If you still don't get it, I'll presume you're hopeless.

    A fan, when things are bad or appear to be headed in the wrong direction, can scream about what should have been done, what should be done, or what mistakes have been made. None of those things take away from the fact that the person is a fan.

    A fan can predict failure - while hoping for success.

    A fan can dislike individuals associated with the team - while still hoping that the team succeeds in spite of those individuals.

    Mok, on the other hand, has stated, quite clearly, that he no longer hopes for the Rams' success. Rather, he hopes that an ex-player succeeds - EVEN AGAINST THE RAMS.

    He's not a fan.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •