There seems to be some confusion...

[thoey]

Thoey, you need to sit in a quiet room and read Mok's post again. Slowly. Use a dictionary if there are words you don't understand. Ask a friend to explain the parts that you can't comprehend.

Funny that I was typing my last response while you were typing this and I get told to go too my room again... Guess that is your answer to anything or anyone that sees things differently. Go away...

He's not criticizing the Rams. Criticizing the team is Job 1 of the fan.

He's abandoning the team.

There's no abiguity here.

He has readily admitted that he's not going to root for the Rams, but rather will root for Kurt Warner (who, in case you missed the news, is now a Cardinal).

Maybe you are the one who needs someone to explain the big words to you. He said he was and is a Warner fan. But, he also said that he is a "turned off Rams fan" do to decisions made by the management of the team. What is so wrong with that?

If you can't see that, you're either illiterate, or perhaps you're the one with the "agenda."

Now I know why I didn't sign up for that thread on who wants to be a moderator. I guess I don't know how to belittle people like I am still in high school any more...

[HUbison]

I owe a public apology to Avenger, Nick and anyone else who said there are posters who will put Warner before the Rams. I said there were not any such posters here and I was wrong. To Avenger, Nick, etal., I apoligize, you were right, I was wrong.

Mok has made it quite clear that he is no longer a Rams fan and indeed puts Warner ahead of the Rams for now. That is his choice and I respect it. I disagree with him, but I respect his voice on the subject.

To Mok, I hope you will still be around to post. I've always enjoyed most of what you have to say, and I for one think this would be a lesser board if you decide not to post.

[AvengerRam]

Apology accepted.


As for Mok, I too have no desire to see him disappear from the boards. Frankly, I'm pleased that he has finally decided to be honest, both to himself and to the rest of us, about where his loyalties lie. It has been clear to me for some time that he's a Warner fan before a St. Louis Ram fan, and now its clear to (most) everyone else.

Of course, when the Rams win the division and the Cards stay home, and Mok starts acting like a Ram fan again... well, I'll probably have something to say about that. I've got a pretty good memory.

[moklerman]

Mok is the consummate fair weather fan.

Another popular term used to insult someone. I ask you though, if I'm dispassionate about the Rams after they've come off of their well-discussed 4 out of 5 year playoff run, isn't that the opposite of a fair-weather fan? I'm basing my decision on many other things, winning percentage being very low on the list. Besides all of which, I've stated many times that although I may not be passionate about them at times, I will always be a Rams fan. Always a Rams supporter? Maybe not. But fan, yes.

He's abandoning the team.

I don't know that I've said that. "...not much of a fan" was meant to imply that I'm a fan in the most minute sense of the word. But not MUCH of fan is very different to NOT a fan. I don't support many of the decisions and personnel moves that the team makes right now so I can't be passionate about them. Perhaps an analogy would help. If you catch your kid doing drugs or stealing or something that you don't agree with, your disappointed and unhappy with them but they're still your kid. That doesn't mean that at that moment you're going to give them an ice-cream party.

But I think I got the just of it.

That's pretty much the jist of it. Am I to understand that I'm being perceived in a poor light for not supporting decisions that I don't agree with? I would think that that's not such an unusual thing.

I think a subtle, perhaps unintentional, but interesting section was when he said he would merely follow along with the Rams, but would be enjoying and rooting for Warner

I'm glad you made not of it Nick but I didn't do it by accident. This will be an interesting year watching two former Super Bowl winning qb's play for new teams and possibly disprove their undeserved post Super Bowl treatment. How hypocritical would I be if I pulled for Trent Dilfer to stick it to the Ravens(who I thought screwed him over) and not pull for Kurt Warner to do the same to the Rams? I suppose the Rams should come before my belief system too?

[AvengerRam]

Oh, come now, Mok. Don't punk out now. You were making such progress.
You're a "fan" but not a "supporter." What in Holy Hell is that supposed to mean... other than that (as I stated) you are a fair weather fan. Would you prefer the term "fair weather supporter"?

[thoey]

Mok has made it quite clear that he is no longer a Rams fan and indeed puts Warner ahead of the Rams for now. That is his choice and I respect it. I disagree with him, but I respect his voice on the subject.

Man, you guys are making this like he just pissed on Deacon's jersey. You mean to tell me none of you have ever been fed up with this teams (or another teams) actions and just decided to follow, but not get too ecstatic about them? I guess we are not worthy and only human...

Oh, and that "cute" nickname for us were the Naysayers...

[AvengerRam]

Mok's not a naysayer.

You're a naysayer.

Mok's apparently in a category all his own. The "Ram fans who don't support the Rams and hope they lose to the Cardinals" category.

[moklerman]

To Avenger, Nick, etal., I apoligize, you were right, I was wrong.

Jeez Hubison, I feel really guilty for putting you in that spot. But, I'm just in a different place with the Rams than a lot of you. For me, this is like the '90's when I was hoping for a lot of changes. It took about 9 years to see those changes but things turned around. A lot of you are happy with the current team and perhaps with anything the Rams do at all. I have to pull back on the reigns every now and then and build a new head of steam.

I've just looked at some of these things in ways that I can't offer my support. Let's take Tony Banks as an extreme example. Back then, I would root for TB to do well so the Rams would win. But I really couldn't stand most things about the guy so I wanted the Rams to dump him. That's a bit of a conundrum. If I root for him so the Rams win, that goes against my belief that the Rams would be better off without him in the long run.

But, opinions vary and this is what's working for me. I would like to see many of the components that comprise the Rams gone. I mean, how can you say that without eventually coming to the point that the Rams would have to struggle to have that happen? I don't want the "Rams" to struggle but I want a lot of changes. So, I can't root for them but I can't root against them. Thus, I will follow them but not root for them. If they win, they win. If they lose, they lose. When enough changes take place, I will support and root for them once again. In the meantime, my favorite all-time Ram is still playing so I will root for him.

[thoey]

Mok's not a naysayer.

You're a naysayer.

Mok's apparently in a category all his own. The "Ram fans who don't support the Rams and hope they lose to the Cardinals" category.

I am glad we got that all settled. Now that you have given everyone their name tags, can we go on back with life?

[Nick]

That's pretty much the jist of it. Am I to understand that I'm being perceived in a poor light for not supporting decisions that I don't agree with? I would think that that's not such an unusual thing.

I can only speak for myself, but no, I don't see you in poor light because you don't agree with certain decisions made by the front office. Everyone has a right to agree with or disagree with what they want, and I've certainly been on the side of the coin where I've disagreed with the front office on things. I'm sure we've all been there at one point in time, though in my own experience, it's never been to the point of basically moving most of my support to a player on another team. I've grown to love this organization, its history, and its current incarnation too much to let any disagreements I may have cause me to deviate from my stance.

How hypocritical would I be if I pulled for Trent Dilfer to stick it to the Ravens(who I thought screwed him over) and not pull for Kurt Warner to do the same to the Rams? I suppose the Rams should come before my belief system too?

Tough question. I suspect that, if I were in those shoes, my feelings for the Rams would supercede the desire to see Warner achieve similar retribution, but if you don't feel the same kind of loyalty to the team as I do, then I can understand why you would choose the statement and opinion you have. I don't agree with it, but all things considered, I can understand how you got there.

[HUbison]

You mean to tell me none of you have ever been fed up with this teams (or another teams) actions and just decided to follow, but not get too ecstatic about them?

No, I've never done that.

I guess we are not worthy and only human...

Come on Thoey, this has nothing to do with being worthy or not and you know it. Don't play this like Avenger, me or anyone else is trying to be sanctimonious about this. The point is Mok made his choice, Avenger commented on it, now you're trying to defend Mok's point. Fair enough, but don't act like anyone's on some kind of crusade, because you know it ain't so.

[r8rh8rmike]

The great thing about being a sports fan is that there are no rules or dogma. You can like or dislike, in whatever degree you see fit any team or player. And the best part is you have absolutely no one you are required to answer to.

[thoey]

HU, no I do not think you are on any sort of crusade. I value your posts a lot. In this thread and out of it.

[Nick]

I owe a public apology

I don't think you owe an apology to anyone.

You mean to tell me none of you have ever been fed up with this teams (or another teams) actions and just decided to follow, but not get too ecstatic about them?

I don't believe I have, no. There have been plenty of times where I have disagreed with the direction a team is going, but if I'm a fan of that team, those feelings have never caused me to deviate from my support of them.

[thoey]

The great thing about being a sports fan is that there are no rules or dogma. You can like or dislike, in whatever degree you see fit any team or player. And the best part is you have absolutely no one you are required to answer to.