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    A-Web's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Just putting this out there for people to express opinions and projections. Don't make it hostile, and reasonable talk only please.

    I personally believe that Vick will be reinstated and at least practicing / backing up for a team this coming year. I say this because of a couple facts.

    1) Goodell has a nack for second chances. And thirds, and fourths and fifths and sixths...you get the point. We know this because of Adam Jones. And if Adam Jones can still play in the NFL, than I have a feeling a two year suspension is all Vick owes the NFL, and all he is due to sit.

    2) There is an abundance of NFL teams that are, for lack of better terminology, repulsive. Most of this has to do with leadership. And specifically in the Quarterback position. In example, San Francisco, Detroit, New York Jets (Post Favre potentially), Kansas City, Seattle (if you believe Hasselbeck is a wash at this point), Cincinnatti (Palmer has already peaked in my opinion, and that whole team needs revamped), and probably a few others that I'm not going to follow up with. But basically, teams need good quarterbacks. Which means, if you're a quarterback with the credentials to play in the NFL, you will have a job in 2009...I actually believe that is the safest job in the country at this point and time.

    The reason Vick will be a quarterback on an NFL roster next year is that some of these teams need long term fixes. Long term fixes come from the draft, and usually have to develop. This means that they need a temporary, or plug-in quarterback who can get the job done. Even if your team doesn't have the Wide Receivers, Vick can still potentially make due with his legs when necessary. This at least gives that team a "punchers chance." Also, I think that there are teams with fading fan-support. Bringing Vick on the scene in an intelligent way could get alot of attention, and not all of it bad. Second chances can be a beautiful thing, and if Vick plays his cards right, and an NFL team plays his cards right, he can start a foundation to support animal causes (Gets PETA off his back, and inserts him into "Good Guy Status stage 1") and turn his life story to the next page. A second chance for a player can be a new life for a team as well, and a team could use him as that pedestal.

    3...5...or whatever number I'm on) There will be no cheaper NFL Quarterback available. Starter or otherwise. Mike Vick needs a second chance. He has no money, has no job, has no...anything. He is essentially a homeless man with a resumé. And all it takes to return him to the status he once had, is a job. He will take whatever pay cut he requires to get back to that job, and I think he will be a definite bargain buy when he comes into the market. Be that a cheap backup, or super-super cheap starter, he will save teams cap room in a high cap era. And imagine locking him into a contract for that low money, and if the salary cap era comes to an end in the following years, imagine how nice it will be to be paying a guy next to nothing, in a time when some stars are asking for more than whole teams rosters make together (See Highest Paid MLB Players, and the Seattle Marlins, or a few others total Roster Incomes).

    These are my thoughts. I believe a second chance is owed, I believe other atheletes do worse and pay less, and I believe that if he is capable of playing at an NFL level, that I want to watch him play again.


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    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    I agree. I said in another thread, if he did his time he paid his debt. As far as I am concerned he should be given the chance to play again.

    Again, those of you without sin by all means cast the first stone.....

  3. #3
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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    I'm on the other side on this.

    For one, there will be pockets of fans from every team that will stop supporting their team because they don't want to be associated with a team that signs someone who did the the things Vick did.

    Now, as for the things Vick did, people all over the place will scream bloody murder that Leonard Little didn't deserve another chance because he ended a life. Before anyone says anything about that particular parallel, remember this: Little did not kill anyone on purpose. Vick killed those dogs on purpose. There's the difference.

    Also, what was forgotten here is the illegal gambling issue. If Pete Rose has to serve a lifetime ban for gambling, why should Vick get a pass when his actions were, by all accounts, even worse? Doesn't seem fair to me.

    The combination of potential loss of support, the fact that he intended to do what he did, and the eligibility for a lifetime ban due to illegal gambling, is why I say he should never be allowed to wear an NFL uniform again.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.stickershoppe.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MLRPANCmini.jpg[/SIGPIC]This is for Randy! GO BRM!

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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Well, MOM let me point something out...Vick didn't bet on football, the game he played. Rose bet on baseball, the game he managed. Two completely different scenarios. Little took a human life, not necessarily a "pet". One more thing, fans are fickle. If Vick hooks up with a team and has a bang up season, those fans of that team won't care. Look at recent history with Barry Bonds. Villified throughout the league except in San Francisco where he played. Fans loved him there. I for one don't look at character when it comes to players. They aren't representing me in a political or governmental fashion and their actions have no impact on my earnings or livelihood. They are just athletes.

  5. #5
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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    From Friday's Dan Patrick show:

    PETA's Daphna Nachminovitch joined the show to discuss Michael Vick.

    PETA wanted Vick to send a message to people to get out of the dogfighting game. They were going to do a promo.

    Nachminovitch said Vick's representatives asked PETA not to protest if he tries to get back into the NFL. PETA wasn't willing to be part of "a public relations ploy."

    Nachminovitch said that they learned Vick was active in torturing dogs and seeing them suffer.

    "Our mission is to help animals, not athletes," Nachiminovitch.

    Nachminovitch said that Vick shouldn't be able to go back to the NFL without a brain scan and a thorough psychological test -- the kind violent criminals are routinely given.

    "It's a known fact that people who torture and abuse animals are more likely to move on to violent crime toward humans," Nachminovitch said.
    But then people who play in the NFL are willingly committing violence against other humans also?

    It's would be hard to imagine the dramatic drop-off in the quality of play in the NFL if those who committed crimes were banned. But then these guys aren't getting paid for their common sense and citizenship.
    RnD

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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Well, MOM let me point something out...Vick didn't bet on football, the game he played. Rose bet on baseball, the game he managed. Two completely different scenarios. Little took a human life, not necessarily a "pet". One more thing, fans are fickle. If Vick hooks up with a team and has a bang up season, those fans of that team won't care. Look at recent history with Barry Bonds. Villified throughout the league except in San Francisco where he played. Fans loved him there. I for one don't look at character when it comes to players. They aren't representing me in a political or governmental fashion and their actions have no impact on my earnings or livelihood. They are just athletes.
    OK, so Vick hasn't bet on football that we know of, but gambling is one of those addictions that can evolve. It could start with the scratcher lottery ticket, or bingo, and grow to going to the casinos and betting houses next. So just because it might be two different scenarios now, it might not be in the future. In all honesty, I think the gambling rule should include betting on ANY sport, if it doesn't already.

    As far as the Little/Vick comparison, I think you might have missed what I was trying to say -not sure, but just in case- I was arguing the intent. Vick killed those dogs on purpose. Little did not kill that poor lady on purpose, he just made an extremely poor decision to drink and get behind the wheel. I am not trying to defend him, but he didn't drown her or electrocute her and bury her in his backyard to conceal the evidence. That is what I was getting at. It was not whether it was worse to kill an animal or a human, but that it was worse to kill on purpose versus a tragic mistake.

    I agree that fans can be fickle. It does go both ways, though. What happens if he does come back, and has a horrible year? Fans will be screaming that he should have never had the chance in the first place. If he was not gotten rid of after that, pray that you are in one of the richer markets.

    Whether character matters to you or not is up to you, but I do care, because it has an impact on the team I root for. It can cause a lot of distraction through bad publicity, it can cause unrest among other players and coaches, and it can cause disrespect for ourselves as fans when asked how we can possibly root for a team that has the bad apple on the roster.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.stickershoppe.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MLRPANCmini.jpg[/SIGPIC]This is for Randy! GO BRM!

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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Quote Originally Posted by MOM View Post
    OK, so Vick hasn't bet on football that we know of, but gambling is one of those addictions that can evolve. It could start with the scratcher lottery ticket, or bingo, and grow to going to the casinos and betting houses next. So just because it might be two different scenarios now, it might not be in the future. In all honesty, I think the gambling rule should include betting on ANY sport, if it doesn't already.

    Well Since we're going to talk about evolving and or escalating problems within the human psyche, why not just look at human nature, both major and minor.

    1) I guarantee at one point in your life you have lied. Maybe to your friend, maybe to your sibling. Then you lie to your parent (99.99% of people have.) Then you lie to your girlfriend. Suddenly you are lying to everyone right? Does this mean that you are going to start lying to police, stealing identities and carrying around fake identification? No, it just means that you lied. There isn't always an endless evolution to an action that can grow in consequence and mass.

    2) On the same scale, but slightly more drastic and...out there, but still in topic. When you were born, you needed to eat. Whether it be nursing, or formula, you got fed. Now you eat cheerios, or whatever finger food. Next fruit and veggies, suddenly balogna. Chicken, steak. Based on the growing pattern of variety, you must be on the path to cannibalism, and we should ban you from eating because you might start eating people.

    3) Theft. You steal a cookie from the jar, or a dollar from daddy's wallet, or a stick of lip balm from a checkout lane, or whatever. Does that mean that you are going to perform grand theft auto, or go on a bank heist?

    Everyone has their boundaries, and I'm pretty sure, that if I had to bet, if I had to pick between the elevation and escalation pattern, Vick would have been betting on sports BEFORE reaching the betting on animal casualties. So, if he didn't do it yet, in my opinion...seriously...he isn't going to.

    -In regards to PETA, the afterthought is this;

    PETA doesn't have to do a Page Ranking stunt for Vick, but rest assured, if they want him to tell people what he did was wrong, they will NOT stand between him and his goals. He gets out of prison in less than a year, PERIOD. If they don't let him do what he wants, they lose out too. If Vick doesn't make that stance, he still CAN get into the NFL, he did the crime, he paid the time both in Prison and the 2-year suspension. Whereas PETA doesn't have anything else to gain unless they step aside and let the man move forward.

    PETA has alot to lose, and alot to miss in this regard. They can be the people that try to ruin a human life by not granting a second chance, and get frowned upon by a decent ammount of people (we've all made mistakes), and they can also miss a solid opportunity to have a well known name spread some of their ideals, and work with that to endorse their values. In metaphorical form, I give you, an explanation (in past cliche form)

    A penny saved is not a penny earned. You had it to begin with, what did you gain? Now remember that penny you have? Keep it in your mind as we walk this road;

    One day, you see a big bully beat up a little kid. The bully goes into time-out because he gets caught by his mommy. (You have two choices. You can either A) let his mommy teach him a lesson, and he could change his ways, or B) Laugh at him and enjoy seeing the meanie get what he deserves.) Now that you've made your choice, let's move forward in this story. The bully WILL get out of timeout. So, lets see how it turns out, if you chose;

    A) You chose to let his mother take care of the problem. The bully will either stop bullying, or just keep doing what he was doing, and will face the consequences whenever he steps over the line.

    B) You laughed at him for his misfortune. This will upset the bully, and ultimately do one thing, almost guaranteed. He is going to be mad, he will find you, he will beat you up, and steal your penny.

    The Penny in this story doesn't have to be money per se, but it can represent what you have to gain. The bully was paying for his crime, and you could leave it at that. No harm no foul. Maybe he will learn his lesson and stop bullying, thus it can be like a new person (second chance) and the world is a better place. Also, maybe he will realize what he did wrong if timeout is good enough, and he might give you back your lunch money from last week (second chance) and then the world gains a good role model and good person.

    If you made fun of him and dragged him down, maybe he will be mean forever, and continue down a destructive path, that could in fact put many people in bad situations. Whether that be spouse abuse, rape, murder, etc... You cannot gain anything from making fun of him, but leaving him alone or being nice to him have the POTENTIAL to make him a better person, and make you happier as well.

    If PETA leaves Vick alone, he can right his ways and move on with his life no harm no foul. He might even make a stand for animal rights on his own. If PETA backs Vick in his stance against animal cruelty, they get the good samaritan appearance of giving the gift of a second chance.
    If PETA condemns Vick, ultimately all it can do is either nothing, or lead to a destructive path. It will at the least, ruin the quality of life that he can live, but may eventually turn him down a worse path, and could involve innocent people at some point.



    From this point, does anyone see anything that makes sense?

  8. #8
    Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Part of me says once Vick is released, and has paid for his crime, I'm fine with him trying out for teams...just not mine. I have no interest in having this guy represent my favorite team in any way.

    However, there's another part of me, the part that served in the military, that says if you know what you're doing is illegal, and you choose to pursue it anyway, you forfiet your right to be part of the organization ever again.

    So much talent. So much potential. So little self-control. We see too much of it in our youth; especially our athletes and celebrities. It would be a shame to lose talent, but it's probably more important to set the standards and boundaries moving forward.

    Ultimately, I guess my feeling is that Vick blew his chance.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

  9. #9
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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    the simple saying is "Do the crime, do the time"...,well, he did...I wont go as far as to say he DESERVES a chance in the NFL, hell, it should be within his rights..as far as fans not supporting their team because they picked up Vick??..c'mon, where theres an empty seat theres and ASS to sit on it, sorry thats just the way it is...oh yeah, I also know a team who's coming upon a qb who is under the microscope for maybe not living up to his rather large contract, and Vick should be pretty cheap and a DECENT backup. you know, buy low sell high kind of thing??.....hmmmm.

    To me, Football is a game to be played fair and with good sportsmanship, and as long as thats the case any man should be allowed a 2nd chance..

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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    I'll put it this way, the NFL owners really don't care. If Pacman Jones can get multiple chances for what he did, if Ray Lewis can get another chance for what he did, then Vick will get another chance also.

    Trust me.

  11. #11
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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I agree. I said in another thread, if he did his time he paid his debt. As far as I am concerned he should be given the chance to play again.

    Again, those of you without sin by all means cast the first stone.....
    I think there's a big difference between being asked not to stone someone and accepting them as someone you're expected to cheer for. The man has done his time and should be allowed to go about his life. That doesn't mean he's ever going to be someone I'm going to respect or admire, and personally I do want a team that consists of individuals I hope to see succeed.

    Not only does Vick have the animal cruelty rap, but he also was accused of knowingly passing an STD to his partner without saying anything about it. Even on the field, he famously flipped off the home crowd. If he was playing for the Rams, I'd have a hard time believing he was out there for anyone other than himself--certainly not trying to win one for the Rams faithful.

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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Hey I understand all that but let's be honest. Some of these didn't grow up in the best of neighborhoods. Some of these guys had to eat Raman noodles all through their upbringing. Most of them didn't go to the best of schools as a kid. Now, most of them realize that they are in the limelight and they need to change their ways but some can't. Just because they sign a NFL contract doesn't necessarily force them to be model citizens.

    It's a personal choice as fans. I tend to agree with Charles Barkley. Athletes shouldn't be role models. We as fans most of the time put these guys on pedestals when they don't ask for it. Most just want to play the game they love.

  13. #13
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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Should he be allowed to play again? Yes.

    Do I want him on my team? No.

  14. #14
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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Should he be allowed to play again? Yes.

    Do I want him on my team? No.
    Wow, a lawyer making a short but sweet and direct point? No wonder it's cold in Austin.....



    I totally agree. I don't necessarily want Michael Vick on the Rams but I also am glad that this is America and people can get as many chances in a democracy they want.

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    Re: Vick Reinstatement 2009?

    I was talking about this with a co-worker the other day. I think if Vick does come back the perfect team for him is the Miami Dolphins. Imagine the Wildcat with Williams,Brown and Vick as qb. Vick wouldnt have to play every down but he would be more of a threat in the wildcat to throw the football. Then they can put Pennington in, in situations they dont use the wildcat. I think that would make for a pretty dynamic wildcat offense. I dont want him on the Rams but if he came back Miami would be an ideal situation.
    Just Fix It

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