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  1. #106
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona




    You know, I've always wanted to use these smilies, and this seemed like the perfect thread for it.

    Enjoy.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -03-13-2005 at 10:36 PM.


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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Leave it to Beaver! :tongue:
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  3. #108
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Go team by team and I bet you'll find more teams that are in a position like we are, with question marks and uncertainty on the bench, than teams like Pittsburgh where Maddox is a satisfactory back-up in times of need.
    To me, that is the point that you're missing or not addressing in this argument. You seem to be focused on only the qb position. The Rams are carrried by their offense more than any other team in the league. I would illustrate this with examples but apparently that isn't allowed under your definition of the argument. But, based on the roster "right now" I'd say the Rams are in real trouble since they don't even have a starting left tackle.

  4. #109
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by theodus69
    Leave it to Beaver! :tongue:
    Theo, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Beaver was the lovable, star of the show. I would label this more along the lines of Wally's irritating friend that was always causing trouble.

  5. #110
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    You must mean Eddie Haskell!<br><br>
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    "I must say you are looking very lovely today, Mrs. Cleaver!"

  6. #111
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Leave it to Eddie? LOL , Mok you're killing me!
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  7. #112
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    You seem to be focused on only the qb position. The Rams are carrried by their offense more than any other team in the league. I would illustrate this with examples but apparently that isn't allowed under your definition of the argument.
    Maybe I'm focused on the QB position because... we're talking about the QB position? Just a hunch.

    If the only examples you can use are teams that have former starters as back-ups (Bledsoe in 2001, Griese and Maddox in 2004) and you can't dig into the current 2005 rosters and depth charts to illustrate your point, then yeah, don't bother. But again, I suspect that if you'd look at current depth charts to see who the #2 guys are, you'd find a number of teams that would see a large dropoff in performance if their main man went down.

    If your point is that the Rams would be in bad shape if Bulger goes down, I'm not disagreeing. I'm just suggesting the Rams aren't the only team that would be in bad shape if their starting QB went down. Can you not simply agree with that principle?
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  8. #113
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Can you not simply agree with that principle?
    Of course I agree with it in prinicple BUT the Rams a) exhibited that they are virtually helpless waaaaaay back in 2004 when their starter goes down (not just a dropoff in performance, the backup qb position was a glaring weakness and liability) and b) Martz seems to take unnecessary risks with his starting qb's protection that, to this point, has cost his starter missed games virtually every year he's been in St. Louis.

    To me, those two factors put the Rams in a precarious position. I will admit that Smoker, being a total unknown is an upgrade over Chandler and Martin, at this point, being totally useless.

    I was at the point last year, when I realized Martz was refusing to put Smoker in (I still don't know why he wouldn't give him some kind of game experience) that I would have rather had Faulk taking direct snaps and either running it himself or handing off to Jackson. I don't know if Faulk can throw it at all but it couldn't have been worse than poor Chandler. As bad as he was and as much as Rams fans wouldn't now give him a glass of water if he was dying of thirst, I just don't know why he fell to pieces like he did. I knew his arm was probably shot (even though he tricked me by looking good in preseason) but it wasn't just his throws. He was totally lost.

    Of the teams in the NFL that actually have a starter and backup in place at this point, that depend on their offense to win games (Baltimore and Miami are a bit unique to me in that they just trudge along on offense for the most part and the qb position is relatively unimportant.), I see:

    ...I don't see any team with as huge a dropoff as the Rams (unless Smoker is actually ready to take the field). The only teams I might consider are Seattle since the haven't replaced Dilfer yet, and Denver since they're actively looking for a backup.

  9. #114
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    How about Miami? Their starter is A.J. Feely, who may not be better than Smoker, and their backup is Sage Rosenfels, who has a lifetime passer rating of 51.9?

  10. #115
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    How about Miami? Their starter is A.J. Feely, who may not be better than Smoker, and their backup is Sage Rosenfels, who has a lifetime passer rating of 51.9?
    I thought I mentioned Miami already, but you bring up a good point. Miami, with it's two, less than stellar qb choices, isn't the same because there is virtually no dropoff. Granted, they would most likely rather have Dan Marino behind center (even right now, bad knees and all!), but they aren't about winning on offense. They go into games knowing that they aren't counting on their qb to win, just not to lose.

    That's a very stark contrast to Martz's philosophy of score as much as we can and hope we can hold on.

  11. #116
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Who was it that talked about Peyton Manning not being as valuable to his team as Marc Bulger is since Jim Sorgi played so well? Delhomme didn't start 2003 as the starter, he came off the bench and ran the offense even better than Peete (Weinke and Peete were battling it out for the #1 spot in the preseason but Weinke got leapfrogged by Delhomme).

    I guess you only want to talk about 2004. If that's the case, the Rams are in deeper doo than I already stated. Smoker, who everyone seems to love, hasn't shown a thing as far as running the Rams offense. He looked terrible in preseason last year and couldn't even get into live action when Chandler and Martin were stinking things up. I would take Rohan Davey any day of the week over Smoker at this point and I'm SURE Bill Bellichick has him prepared to come in if necessary. He's actually played a little bit in NFLE so I put him ahead of Smoker. Especially considering the Patriots have a running game, good defense and good special teams to fall back on.

    How 'bout Tampa Bay? They had Johnson struggle and Simms AND Griese came off the bench and played well.

    Maddox is a helluva good backup at this stage. Granted, he's not a great starter but he's a decent starter who knows the Steelers system and would allow the Steelers to stay competitive and/or win games without missing too much of a beat. That's nothing like the Rams situation. Pretty much all the other teams in the league would indeed have a dropoff if their starter went down but I don't know of any teams that would be completely ineffective on offense like the Rams were in 2004. Maybe Smoker will be the next Warner/Bulger off the bench for the Rams but since he looked bad in preseason and didn't even get on the field in 2004 it's not likely at this point.
    Mok,

    You really hit the nail on the head! and it seems like Nick does not like former LSU qb's :tongue:

    The most valid point here is that our achilles on offense is the OL/Back up QB. Based on last year's lousy performance by each group, we really need to be agressive and look for some upgrades in back up qb and PAY for quality OL DEPTH!!!

    This is a no brainer. BTW it looks like TB is solid at the QB position as Simms looked decent before going down. GRiese did well too.

    The 'aints OTH suk at backup qb as well and they have no one who can play based on BAuman's preseason play last year. I will take Rohan over Smoker in a heartbeat. BTW Rohan kicked ass in NFLE last summer leading his team to victory in the championship. LSU baybee

    BTW/OFF Topic-I wish we would have picked up Tim Dwight. A decent special teams player would be nice plus he could do damage even with our depth @ wr!
    Last edited by fearlessone; -03-14-2005 at 06:56 PM.
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  12. #117
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    The 'aints OTH suk at backup qb as well and they have no one who can play based on BAuman's preseason play last year.
    I'm not real high on New Orleans either but again, the dropoff or margin between the 1st and 2nd string qb is the comparison that I'm focusing on. I don't like Brooks at all so Bouman couldn't do much worse in my eyes. I happened to think that he looked really good in his Minnesota days so I was suprised to see him struggle with New Orleans. I'm not sure if it's Bouman's true abilities showing through or just him having trouble with a new system.
    I will take Rohan over Smoker in a heartbeat.
    Yeah, I watched quite a bit of NFLE last year and Rowhan was the best qb in the league by far. I was rooting for J.T. Sullivan but Davie was easily the best in the league. I didn't want to talk him up too much in my example but I think it's a shame that he's stuck behind a young qb like Brady.
    I wish we would have picked up Tim Dwight.
    I really like Dwight but I don't think he'd fit with the Rams. I've always hypothesized how Dwight would be with the Rams and I see him being injured early and often and not producing.

  13. #118
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    I really like Dwight but I don't think he'd fit with the Rams. I've always hypothesized how Dwight would be with the Rams and I see him being injured early and often and not producing.
    Wasn't Curtis supposed to be the next Dwight?

  14. #119
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    Not really trying to resurrect this thread, but figured this info should be here. From KFFL:

    Kurt Warner, QB, Arizona Cardinals
    By John McDermott, Edited by Cory J. Bonini
    What is your first thought when you hear the name Kurt Warner? Do you think of the confident, healthy two-time NFL MVP who led the St. Louis Rams to two Super Bowls? Or, do you think of the injury prone quarterback whose confidence was shaken so badly that many questioned if he could ever play at a professional level again?

    Undrafted by the NFL out of the University of Northern Iowa, Warner was forced to stock shelves at a grocery store in Cedar Falls before joining the Iowa Barnstormers of the Arena Football League. Eventually, the Amsterdam Admirals of NFL Europe came calling where he would later earn the league MVP award. It was a long way to come for a small town Iowa boy, but Warner was just getting started.

    He made such an impact overseas that he was given a shot with the Rams. There he would back up starting quarterback, and much lauded, Trent Green. Before the 1999 season, however, Green suffered a season ending injury that opened the door for Warner. He not only filled in sufficiently for Green, but played so well that he won the NFL MVP award for the 1999 season and led his team to Super Bowl XXXIV. He also won the MVP of Super Bowl XXXIV where he threw for over 400 yards in an exciting 23-16 victory.

    Warner looked as if he was going to be one of the NFL's elite quarterbacks. He went to the Pro Bowl three straight seasons and took the Rams to their second Super Bowl in three years in 2002 where they lost on a last second field goal to the New England Patriots. It would be the last time for quite some time that we saw of the confident and healthy Warner.

    During the 2002 season, rumors were swirling that the thumb on his throwing had was bothering him and it was affecting his control. After a very shaky start in 2002, Warner injured his pinky on his throwing hand as well and underwent surgery to repair it. He played in three games the remainder of the 2002 season and was the starter for the first game of the 2003 season against the New York Giants. He ended up fumbling the ball six times in that game, officially ending his reign as the starting quarterback for St. Louis. He was released by the Rams June 1, 2004.

    Ironically enough, two days later, the Giants signed him to be their interim quarterback until QB Eli Manning was groomed into the NFL. He started the first seven games of the 2004 regular season and won five of them. After a short two game losing streak, where Warner began showing signs of "fumblitis" again, head coach Tom Coughlin named Eli Manning the starter for the rest of the season.

    March 6, 2005, Warner signed a one-year contract with the Arizona Cardinals worth $4 million. He will compete with Josh McCown for the starting quarterback position but is expected to be named the starter before the beginning of the 2005 season.

    There are many questions with regards to Warner. Has his throwing hand fully healed? Is his confidence shot? At 33 years old, how much will age be a factor? Warner is an intriguing story to which we don't yet know the ending to. We may get an idea in 2005.

    Positives
    Kurt will have one of the most talented wide receiver duos in the league to throw to in Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald. It is hard to imagine that Warner will have too much trouble getting the ball into their hands.

    Table: WR Anquan Boldin - Career Statistics

    Year Tm G Rec. Yards Avg. TDs
    2003 ARI 16 101 1377 13.6 8
    2004 ARI 10 56 623 11.1 1

    Table: WR Larry Fitzgerald - Career Statistics

    Year Tm G Rec. Yards Avg. TDs
    2004 ARI 16 58 780 13.4 8

    If Warner can get a few good games under his belt, he could resurrect some of the success that he had between 1999 and 2001.

    Table: QB Kurt Warner - Statistics - 1999-2001 Year Tm G Pass Comp Pass Att Comp % Pass Yds Pass TDs Pass INTs
    1999 STL 16 325 492 66.1 4351 40 12
    2000 STL 11 248 360 68.9 3576 23 20
    2001 STL 15 350 516 67.8 4550 33 19

    Negatives
    Warner's throwing hand is obviously a big concern. He has had trouble with taking snaps cleanly and getting off the center. He has also developed a habit of holding on to the ball too long in the pocket.

    Warner's confidence has been shaken due to the numerous injuries he has mounted over the years and his lack of mobility has made him very nervous in the pocket. It will be interesting to see if he can overcome this under Cardinals head coach Dennis Green's offense. It is likely that it will take Warner a few games to adjust to a new offensive scheme and shake the rust off.

    Table: QB Kurt Warner - Statistics - 2002-2004 Year Tm G Comp. Att. Comp % Pass Yds TDs INTs
    2002 STL 7 144 220 65.5 1431 3 11
    2003 STL 3 38 65 58.5 365 1 1
    2004 NYG 10 174 277 62.8 2054 6 4

    The Cardinals have no running back right now of any value. If they can get a capable tailback to compliment the passing attack, it will help Warner out a great deal. If the Cardinals can't land one of these guys, look for them to possibly draft a running back with the eighth overall pick in April's draft.

    Summary
    There are definitely more questions than answers with regard to how Warner will produce in Arizona. If Warner is named the starter and the Cardinals get a running back to balance out the offense, take a chance on Warner in the waning rounds of your draft. He has some weapons to throw to and may turn out to be a sleeper this year since everyone will be afraid to take a chance on him. If you end up landing him in a later round, you may end up with some good trade bait at the least.
    This space for rent...

  15. #120
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    Re: Warner signs with Arizona

    It is likely that it will take Warner a few games to adjust to a new offensive scheme and shake the rust off.
    Not a bad recap of everything that's transpired but I disagree with the above statement. I think the whole point of Warner signing with Arizona, especially for only one year, is that they are going to be running some variation of the Rams/Chiefs offense that Warner is already familiar with. He may be a little rusty from sitting the last half of 2004 but other than terminology, I think he will be comfortable right away with the scheme in Arizona.

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