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    Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Horrible game with Rams opened door for Warner to sign with Giants
    Friday, October 22, 2004
    By Tom Kowalski

    ALLEN PARK -- Kurt Warner has won a Super Bowl, a couple of NFL Most Valuable Player awards and has set all kinds of passing records, but he's currently the New York Giants quarterback because head coach Tom Coughlin was impressed with one of Warner's worst-ever games.

    In last year's season opener, when he was quarterbacking the St. Louis Rams, Warner had a horrific game against the Giants. He was sacked six times, fumbled six times (losing three) and was intercepted once in New York's 23-13 win against the Rams.

    Coughlin, who became the Giants head coach this year, remembered that performance (after watching game films) when he was deciding whether to sign Warner as a free agent in the off-season.

    "I looked hard at the game," said Coughlin, whose 4-1 Giants host the 3-2 Detroit Lions Sunday at Giants Stadium. "He had the turnovers, no question, but he also performed with outstanding toughness even well into the fourth quarter, despite the statistics, the turnovers and all of those things. He was battling and competing and had a high percentage completion rate even deep into the fourth quarter."

    Coughlin, who is a hard-nosed throwback coach, wanted a competitor and that's what he got in Warner, who only wanted an opportunity to play. After his glory years in St. Louis, Warner stumbled hard with the Rams and it appeared his career might be over.

    "I never had the doubt, from a personal standpoint, about my skills and that I could play at that level," Warner said. "I had some doubt about whether I'd get a legitimate chance to do it. That's where the doubts were. I always felt that if I ever got that opportunity, I could play this game as well as I've ever played it."

    That's why Warner didn't want to sign with the Lions as a backup to Joey Harrington.

    "It was kicked around and talked about a little bit but, obviously, they have a young quarterback who they've put some stock in and given him the opportunities to continue to progress," Warner said. "It wasn't the most conducive situation to what I was looking for, but I definitely considered it.

    "(Lions) Coach (Steve) Mariucci is an old friend of mine and I really love the guy. That would've been a great fit, other than the standpoint that they have Joey there and he has so much talent and he's proven that's the right direction to go."

    After a close training camp battle between Warner and first-round draft pick Eli Manning, the Giants decided they wanted to go with the veteran. Warner has responded with solid performances, completing 65 percent of his passes and throwing just one interception in five games. However, Warner -- and his three touchdown passes -- is a long way from his high-flying days with the Rams.

    "It's two different systems, two different philosophies. It's a unique challenge," Warner said. "It's different and it's been the biggest adjustment, to change the mindset of how I have to play the game. In essence, play the game more perfect than I've ever played it before. I don't have the luxury, like I did in St. Louis, of throwing it 50 times and make up for a bad throw here or there or a turnover here or there."

    Warner also doesn't have the luxury of job security. He can continue completing passes and winning games but he knows, deep in the back of his mind, that he's just job-sitting.

    "I've known since day one that Eli is the future of this organization and they'll do everything they can to get him ready for that future, as quickly and as fast as that can possibly transpire," said Warner, who refuses to recognize that reality anytime soon. "I don't look at it from that standpoint, at all. I'm hoping this year continues to progress like it has and I'm the starter for this season and we'll get in the playoffs and do the things we want to do. When the season's over, we'll see what direction the team wants to go."

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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    I think any person who knows football could tell Warner was never out of that Game! And that is why going with Bulger was what I thought Pre-mature. Bulger is coming around and I'm glad But I still feel Warner should tearing up the league in Blue and gold! Oh well just my OP! :upset:
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    "It's two different systems, two different philosophies. It's a unique challenge," Warner said. "It's different and it's been the biggest adjustment, to change the mindset of how I have to play the game. In essence, play the game more perfect than I've ever played it before. I don't have the luxury, like I did in St. Louis, of throwing it 50 times and make up for a bad throw here or there or a turnover here or there."
    Thank you, Kurt. You've said what some of us have spent days trying to convey: you're playing in a completely different kind of offense in NY than you would have been here in St. Louis.



    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    "When the season's over, we'll see what direction the team wants to go."
    I think Kurt's kidding himself if he thinks the Giants don't know what direction they're going after this season.

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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    "I've known since day one that Eli is the future of this organization and they'll do everything they can to get him ready for that future, as quickly and as fast as that can possibly transpire," said Warner, who refuses to recognize that reality anytime soon. "I don't look at it from that standpoint, at all. I'm hoping this year continues to progress like it has and I'm the starter for this season and we'll get in the playoffs and do the things we want to do. When the season's over, we'll see what direction the team wants to go."
    I think Kurt's kidding himself if he thinks the Giants don't know what direction they're going after this season.
    I'm sure he knows he'll be elsewhere next year. His agent has already said as much. But he can't say what he knows here in the middle of the season. For now he's the quarterback of the Giants and they have a shot at the playoffs. He can't start predicting the future when the present still means something to his team mates.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    I'm sure he knows he'll be elsewhere next year. His agent has already said as much. But he can't say what he knows here in the middle of the season. For now he's the quarterback of the Giants and they have a shot at the playoffs. He can't start predicting the future when the present still means something to his team mates.
    Yet in other interviews he's talked about how he would like to retire a Giant and spend the next couple years there. Sometimes I wonder....

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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler

    I think Kurt's kidding himself if he thinks the Giants don't know what direction they're going after this season.
    I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think Warner realizes where he will stand at the end of the season. Give the guy a little credit for some intelligence. What would you expect him to say in the middle of the season. That he knows he's a lame duck and is just playing out the string so some other team gives him a contract next year?


    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Thank you, Kurt. You've said what some of us have spent days trying to convey: you're playing in a completely different kind of offense in NY than you would have been here in St. Louis.
    I know that this is the last peg that some of you guys have to hang your hats on, so I won't try to snatch it away from you, but consider this for a moment.

    I'm not convinced that this statement backs up your argument any more than mine. Just because it's a different system does not guarantee that he would now be unable to run the Rams system. According to Warner, this a more difficult system to run for him because he has less room for error. They are not a quick-strike offense that can overcome turnovers the way the Rams sometimes can. He almost has to play perfect football for them to be successful. Also, other than at the tight end position (with the running backs being more or less equal), the Giants have less talent on offense than the Rams. My contention has always been that with the Rams offense being predicated on rhythm and timing, Warner never had the chance to work his way back from his injuries. Sure he had 8 or so appearances, but that was spread over a two year time period, and at least half of those games he played injured.

    Anyway, I don't want to re-open the debate, just pointing out that in my opinion, him showing that he can succeed on a different team, with a different system, with less talent tells me it's more than likely he could have stayed a Ram and been successful. In addition, the evidence suggests that he will continue to improve. I don't think he's 100% comfortable with the system or his teammates yet.

    One last point. How many elite level QB's have been forced to change teams and systems and were able to do it successfully. Not too many. That fact that Warner appears to be accomplishing it is all the more to his credit. The jury is still out...the season is still young after all. But if he keeps playing the way he is and continues to improve, that last peg will be gone, and all your hats will be on the floor.

    Go Bulger and Go Rams!
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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Look how well the Qb of the future has done in Cincy taking over for the seasoned veteren who had a career year just the season before...STOOPID

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think Warner realizes where he will stand at the end of the season.
    See the comments I made responding to Bison. Warner said in earlier interviews that he would like to retire a Giant and play there a number of seasons in the future. Plus, his choice of words is questionable. "When the season's over, we'll see what direction the team wants to go." Um, Kurt. You know what direction the team wants to go. His statement implies the team hasn't made up its mind, which again, is what prompts me to say he's kidding himself if he thinks the Giants haven't already decided on 2005. Kurt Warner is in the same role Drew Brees is in - they're auditioning for teams for next season.



    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    Just because it's a different system does not guarantee that he would now be unable to run the Rams system.
    Wow, I guess I must have missed where my fingers typed this. Silly me for allowing my hands to break away from my mind and write something I had no idea about. Oh no wait, I never said that. :bored:

    What I said was that Warner's comments show that the two systems are in fact different, which is a point I was trying to previously make in another thread.

    Some people were trying to say that success in this NY system means Warner could have succeeded in the Rams system. We don't know one way or the other based on what he's doing in NY because it's a completely different system.

    Success or failure there does not really reflect one way or the other what could have happened had he stayed in St. Louis, and Kurt's comments confirming the difference in schemes supports that point.

  9. #9
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadesofgrey
    Look how well the Qb of the future has done in Cincy taking over for the seasoned veteren who had a career year just the season before...STOOPID
    Yeah, clearly that's all Carson Palmer's fault.

  10. #10
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    Re: Why Coughlin Ptouchdown passes -- is a long way from his high-flyicked Warner....

    [QUOTE=Yodude]Horrible game with Rams opened door for Warner to sign with Giants
    Friday, October 22, 2004
    By Tom Kowalski

    ALLEN PARK -- Kurt Warner has won a Super Bowl, a couple of NFL Most Valuable Player awards and has set all kinds of passing records, but he's currently the New York Giants quarterback because head coach Tom Coughlin was impressed with one of Warner's worst-ever games.







    Coughlin, who is a hard-nosed throwback coach, wanted a competitor and that's what he got in Warner, who only wanted an opportunity to play. After his glory years in St. Louis, Warner stumbled hard with the Rams and it appeared his caree"I looked hard at the game," said Coughlin, whose 4-1 Giants host the 3-2 Detroit Lions Sunday at Giants Stadium. "He had the turnovers, no question, but he also performed with outstanding toughness even well into the fourth quarter, despite the statistics, the turnovers and all of those things. He was battling and competing and had a high percentage completion rate even deep into the fourth quar"I looked hard at the game," said Coughlin, whose 4-1 Giants host the 3-2 Detroit Lions Sunday at Giants Stadium. "He had the turnovers, no question, but he also performed with outstanding toughness even well into the fourth quarter, despite the statistics, the turnovers and all of those things. He was battling and competing and had a high percentage completion rate even deep into the fourth quarter."


    This is exactly what i have been saying all along!

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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    See the comments I made responding to Bison. Warner said in earlier interviews that he would like to retire a Giant and play there a number of seasons in the future. Plus, his choice of words is questionable. "When the season's over, we'll see what direction the team wants to go." Um, Kurt. You know what direction the team wants to go. His statement implies the team hasn't made up its mind, which again, is what prompts me to say he's kidding himself if he thinks the Giants haven't already decided on 2005. Kurt Warner is in the same role Drew Brees is in - they're auditioning for teams for next season.
    I say that this is the right thing to say in this situation. What would you have him say, that he knows he's auditioning? What would his team react if he came out and said that. He's a competitor and he wants to compete, anything less from him and he would lose all credibility with the team. You guys seem to criticise him no matter what he says. The truth his in some people's mind there is nothing Warner can say that would be taken the right way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    Just because it's a different system does not guarantee that he would now be unable to run the Rams system.
    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Wow, I guess I must have missed where my fingers typed this. Silly me for allowing my hands to break away from my mind and write something I had no idea about. Oh no wait, I never said that.

    Wow, I guess similarly, I seem to miss where I attributed that direct quote to you. :bored:


    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Some people were trying to say that success in this NY system means Warner could have succeeded in the Rams system.

    How can you argue with a statement where the operative word is could? Could means exactly what it says....could. It's not a guarantee. Since the crux of most people's arguement was that Warner simply can't play anymore, and he has shown that he can, regardless of the system, it follows that he most certainly could run a system that he ran quite effectively for 3 years.
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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Yet in other interviews he's talked about how he would like to retire a Giant and spend the next couple years there. Sometimes I wonder....
    Nick, I see what you're saying, but, like Yo said, I'm sure Kurt is just playing it safe with his language. No need to burn a bridge on his way out of NY. If he'd said, "I will retire a Giant, and I will spend the next couple of years here", then I'd say yea, he's dreaming. But he's keeping everybody happy with the whole "I'd like to retire a Giant". I'm sure next year he will make a statement similar to "I'd like to retire a _______" and we can fill in the blank with whatever team signs him.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    What would you have him say, that he knows he's auditioning?
    I believe I listed a number of things he could have said that I think would have been fine. But again, to imply that the team is going to be making their decision after this season implies that Warner isn't entirely grounded in reality. Heck, all he had to say was, "I'm not thinking about next season. I'm concentrating on this season and what I can do to help this team."

    Far from the "Warner can't do anything right" stigma you've painted on critics, Yo.



    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    Wow, I guess similarly, I seem to miss where I attributed that direct quote to you. :bored:
    Yeah, I guess quoting me and referring earlier to "your argument" and "you guys" means you're not talking to me or attributing that point of view to me at all, huh?



    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    Since the crux of most people's arguement was that Warner simply can't play anymore, and he has shown that he can, regardless of the system, it follows that he most certainly could run a system that he ran quite effectively for 3 years.
    First, I don't know many people who flat-out argued that it was a definite that Warner could not play anymore on any level. His completion percentage itself seems to nullify that point of view. Most of the people I talked to suspected he was having some kind of problem but very few Rams fans I discussed the topic with seemed to say he was completely done.

    Secondly, no, Warner hasn't shown he can play regardless of the system. He's shown he can go into NY and run a very controlled system. Does that mean he could run the Rams offense? No. Success in New York doesn't equate to success in St. Louis. The possibility is there, but why does it matter? He's in NY, and when he was here, for whatever reason, he had problems. He wasn't just let go because he theorhetically couldn't play, ya know.
    Last edited by Nick; -10-23-2004 at 08:37 PM.

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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Secondly, no, Warner hasn't shown he can play regardless of the system. He's shown he can go into NY and run a very controlled system. Does that mean he could run the Rams offense?
    Touche...I guess I should have worded that differently. My intended point was that to me, Warner has shown he can still play, regardless of the system he's in now...not that he has shown he can play in any system whatsoever.
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    Re: Why Coughlin Picked Warner....

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    Touche...I guess I should have worded that differently. My intended point was that to me, Warner has shown he can still play, regardless of the system he's in now...not that he has shown he can play in any system whatsoever.
    If I understand what you're saying, then I agree - Warner has shown he can still play and be effective and efficient.

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