Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 36
  1. #1
    general counsel's Avatar
    general counsel is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    atlanta, georgia
    Age
    52
    Posts
    5,514
    Rep Power
    80

    will warner make the HOF

    Warner certainly goes down in the rams HOF, but will he ultimately be enshrined in canton? I believe he has very little shot of making it. From a peak performance standpoint, he was as good as anyone ever in terms of statistics, leadership, toughness, accuracy, mvp awards and even a title.

    However, two major factors work against him. First, longevity. He just didnt do it over a long enough period of time. His star was really three years long if you think about it. Second, it will always be said that he was at least partially a function of the system, with great players around him. A final factor is that he did nothing while in new york, the media hype capital.

    Personally, i dont think warner was ever the same after he broke his thumb against the eagles in week one of the 2001 season. His deep ball was never as good. This was one of the toughest guys in the history of the position and one of the very brightest. However, given that he had three great years and then a couple of decent ones, i dont think that qualifies him to be an NFL hall of famer.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel



  2. #2
    txramsfan's Avatar
    txramsfan is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, MO
    Age
    50
    Posts
    7,266
    Rep Power
    65

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    No way does Warner make the HOF. He had three outstanding years with the Rams but he will labeled a system QB instead of a pure QB. Plus, three years of greatness doesn't equate to HOF.

    Is that a knock against him? Absolutely not. He was outstanding with the Rams. However, he didn't have that same consistency with the Giants or the Cardinals that he had with the Rams. Just a fact.

  3. #3
    AlphaRam is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    a
    Posts
    2,521
    Rep Power
    74

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    As nice of a man as he is, he won't get in. It is a shame as he is someone to look up to...as opposed to Michael Irvin the crackhead.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
    ramsbruce's Avatar
    ramsbruce is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,406
    Rep Power
    50

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Facing-The-Giant View Post
    I say he gets in. maybe not first ballot. be he will eventualy get in. imo
    Based on what?

    Three great years does not make Warner a Hall of Famer, no matter how much you like him.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  5. #5
    jkramsfan's Avatar
    jkramsfan is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Destin,Fl.
    Age
    50
    Posts
    3,507
    Rep Power
    44

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    my heart says yes, but my head says he won't,if he could have had a couple of good years after the rams then this discussion may be different,he hasn't been in the best situations since leaving the Rams, he has played for teams that were just waiting for him to have a few bad games so they had a reason to put there high priced rookie in.BUT he always handled it with the utmost class and respect.i will always be a hugh Kurt Warner fan and not for just what he did on the field but for what he does off the field also.

  6. #6
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    29 Palms, Ca.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,235
    Rep Power
    127

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    No one is a bigger Warner fan than I am. I love the guy. I was hoping he would put up some good numbers for a few years in Arizona and give himself a shot, but that didn't happen. He had several HOF game performances with the Cardinals, but nothing consistant and he couldn't finish a single season. His fumble woes, interceptions and benching seem to have sealed his fate. Unless something dramatic happens, Warner will not have enough to make into the HOF. Too bad, because he had the greatest 3 year run in NFL history IMO.

  7. #7
    ramsbruce's Avatar
    ramsbruce is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,406
    Rep Power
    50

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Facing-The-Giant View Post
    the guy deserves it. that is why i said he will. if you were elected in by your pure goodness,he would be the first one in.
    It doesn't matter how nice he is. It was even stretch for me to say he had 3 great years since he missed 5 games in 2000. So he really only had 2 great years, and one good year with the Rams (2000). He had below average years with the Giants and Cards and never played a full season with either of those teams. So I don't see how he deserves it. Like I said, just because he is a nice guy and is well liked, that doesn't mean he deserves it.

    Don't get me wrong, I like him. He was great in the GSOT, but reality says he didn't sustain a high level of play long enough to warrant him a trip to the HoF.
    Last edited by ramsbruce; -03-29-2007 at 09:32 PM.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  8. #8
    BigDaddyPace's Avatar
    BigDaddyPace is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri
    Age
    31
    Posts
    291
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Namath is in and his numbers sucked.

    Terrel Davis came close this year and he only had three solid years before injury ended his career.

    Warner HAD THE GREATEST YEAR EVER BY A QB! He'll make it. People forget that he was 32 when he got his first start and it was an injury that started his downfall.

  9. #9
    ramsbruce's Avatar
    ramsbruce is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,406
    Rep Power
    50

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyPace View Post
    Namath is in and his numbers sucked.

    Terrel Davis came close this year and he only had three solid years before injury ended his career.

    Warner HAD THE GREATEST YEAR EVER BY A QB! He'll make it. People forget that he was 32 when he got his first start and it was an injury that started his downfall.
    Namath also got into the HoF 22 years ago. Getting into the HoF is more difficult now and it will be even more difficult by the time Warner is eligible just due to who is in there now and the numbers they put up. Namath didn't have to be compared with Montana, Marino, or Elway. They raised the bar, and Manning is in the process of raising it even more.

    Davis didn't really come close to getting into the HoF, he was in the top 25 semi finals, but he didn't even make it to the 17 finalists that the committee picked from. http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...272007,00.html

    I doubt that any Rams fan forgets Warner was older when he started or that his injuries started his downward spiral, that also has no bearing on whether he gets in or not.

    Warner had the best year ever?? That's news to Dan Marino and Peyton Manning.

    Also the difference between them is Marino kept on, and Manning keeps having great years, while Warner had 2 great years and 1 good year. Just not enough to get in the way the vote goes today.

    Warner had a great run here, but unless he makes an amazing comeback somewhere else for a few years he won't get in.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  10. #10
    81~BIG-GAME's Avatar
    81~BIG-GAME is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Belfast,Northern Ireland
    Age
    30
    Posts
    595
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Facing-The-Giant View Post
    ok ok ok. in reality he probably won't get in, but i have no doubt that in 03 if he would have started every game instead of being benched by martz he would have lead us to a superbowl again. it was disrespectfull for martz to bench warner after one bad game, that wasn't even that bad. kurt should be our QB right now.
    That's quite a statement,do you really think the Kurt Warner of present is a better option than Marc Bulger? IMO Kurt Warner won't get in,and I'm a massive fan of him,as GC stated he just didn't stay around long enough at the top of his game.But Kurt for me will always be a great role-model and just pure class..

  11. #11
    HUbison's Avatar
    HUbison is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    40
    Posts
    13,544
    Rep Power
    144

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    He won't get in, and he doesn't deserve to get in (And I say that as a huge Kurt Warner fan). Having said that, there are a lot of guys in the HOF that have no business being in the HOF. In this fans opinion, the presence of Joe Namath and Michael Irvin alone make the HOF an absolute joke. However, since those guys are in, let's take a look at Warner vs. Namath.

    Namath - 1886 comp., 50.1 comp %, 27663 yards, 7.4 y/a, 173 TDs, 220 Ints., 3 winning seasons, 2 post season wins, 636 post season yards, 3 post season TDs, 1 SB appearance, 1 SB win, 2 MVPs*.

    Warner - 1645 comp., 65.6 comp %, 20591 yards, 8.2 y/a, 125 TDs, 83 Ints. 4 winning seasons, 5 post season wins, 2221 post season yards, 17 post season TDs, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win, 2 MVPs.

    * Namath's awards were prior to the merger, and in both years he shared the award with two other players.

    Namath has no business in the HOF, but if he's there, then Warner should be there.

    And I don't buy into the idea that the standards change over the years. If that were the case, then older players who don't match up to today's standards should be getting kicked out each year. One Hall, one standard.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #12
    81~BIG-GAME's Avatar
    81~BIG-GAME is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Belfast,Northern Ireland
    Age
    30
    Posts
    595
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    He won't get in, and he doesn't deserve to get in (And I say that as a huge Kurt Warner fan). Having said that, there are a lot of guys in the HOF that have no business being in the HOF. In this fans opinion, the presence of Joe Namath and Michael Irvin alone make the HOF an absolute joke. However, since those guys are in, let's take a look at Warner vs. Namath.

    Namath - 1886 comp., 50.1 comp %, 27663 yards, 7.4 y/a, 173 TDs, 220 Ints., 3 winning seasons, 2 post season wins, 636 post season yards, 3 post season TDs, 1 SB appearance, 1 SB win, 2 MVPs*.

    Warner - 1645 comp., 65.6 comp %, 20591 yards, 8.2 y/a, 125 TDs, 83 Ints. 4 winning seasons, 5 post season wins, 2221 post season yards, 17 post season TDs, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win, 2 MVPs.

    * Namath's awards were prior to the merger, and in both years he shared the award with two other players.

    Namath has no business in the HOF, but if he's there, then Warner should be there.

    And I don't buy into the idea that the standards change over the years. If that were the case, then older players who don't match up to today's standards should be getting kicked out each year. One Hall, one standard.
    Those stats don't lie,and I agree Hub that since Namath is in then Warner should get in also.Warner's post-season stats are considerably better than Namath's.I also agree that there are some inductee's that don't belong in the Hall.I earlier in the thread posted that KW shouldn't get in,and I still stand by this based purely on performance(longevity issue).But on the other hand basing it on who is already in(Namath) Warner should be in..

  13. #13
    general counsel's Avatar
    general counsel is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    atlanta, georgia
    Age
    52
    Posts
    5,514
    Rep Power
    80

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Standards certainly change over time as, among other things, rules change. As an example, rebounding averages plummeted in the nba after the lane was widened. ERA's in baseball went way up after the mound was lowered. What about the dead ball era in baseball. Should the best power hitters in 1910 not get in because the ball was entirely different than it is today? What about scoring averages in basketball before the 24 second clock?

    Absolute numbers in my opinion are a TERRIBLE way to judge historical performance. They are a relevant data point, but way too many fans use them as the be all and end all. Should a guy make the baseball hall of fame just because he plays 26 years, has 3000 hits, spends the last 10 years as a dh and has a lifetime batting average of .271? No, in my opinion.

    Hall of fame, in my opinion, is a combination of longevity and greatness. Greatness should be measured by domination in an individual era and then compared to players from other eras. What is important is how did a player stack up against his peers. Was he one of the greats of the game year after year, or just a good player for a long time who gathered stats. Did he win mvp awards? titles? Did he lead the league in particular categories and if so how many times. How many times was he in the top three in the league in a particular category. By using this method, we do our best to eliminate the statistical deviations from era to era.

    Namath is an interesting case and his election goes to the issue of geographical bias. Namath, a white qb in new york, the highest profile media environment, made the hall of fame based on the super bowl 3 prediction and victory, which was a MAJOR contributing factor in the merger which led to football as we know it today. If he had the same stats playing for a lesser known team, he might never have come close to making it.

    Otis taylor is NOT in the hall of fame. He was a DOMINANT player in his era, yet a LOT less passes were thrown in that era and his numbers dont stack up to the wide receiver numbers of today. This is whats wrong with using stats and assuming that numbers dont change over time.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  14. #14
    HUbison's Avatar
    HUbison is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    40
    Posts
    13,544
    Rep Power
    144

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by GC
    This is whats wrong with using stats and assuming that numbers dont change over time.
    Numbers change, but the standard shouldn't. Namath sat atop the league for 4 years. However, 3 of those 4 years he only had to compete with 9 other QBs. In the 4th year (post-merger) he was in a group with 25 other QBs. During his time he shared 2 MVPs, and won a SB.

    Warner outright won a pair of MVPs and a SB. And was the best in the league for two years while competing in a 31 team league.

    Namath is in, Warner will never be. So what is the difference? You've already hit on it, GC.......Namath had a gimmick. He was the Southern hillbilly in the Northern city. The NFL loves that particular set-up (see Favre and Bradshaw). And, of course, THE prediction against the Colts. He didn't play his way into the Hall, he was in the right place at the right time. Neither Namath nor Warner have done enough on the field to be in the HOF.

    However, one is and one isn't (and won't). And THAT is my problem with it. There's nothing consistent. There's no standard.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #15
    ramsbruce's Avatar
    ramsbruce is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Here
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,406
    Rep Power
    50

    Re: will warner make the HOF

    Good points GC.

    HUb you may not buy that standards change but they do, like it or not. You can't just automatically put Warner in because Namath is in, and kicking people out isn't the answer either. Eras change, better players come along and raise the bar. That's just how it is.

    Look, all Rams fans love Warner for what he did, but he didn't do it long enough to get him into the HoF. That's the bottom line.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •