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  1. #1
    Nick's Avatar
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    Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    From another message board, the poster heard it on today's Cold Pizza...

    5. Tarik Glenn, Indianapolis
    4. Willie Anderson, Cincinnati
    3. Jonathan Ogden, Baltimore
    2. Orlando Pace, St. Louis
    1. Walter Jones, Seattle

    Thoughts?

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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    If the Rams went to the Super Bowl and Seattle was 6-10 last year, Pace would be at the top of everyone's list.

    I wouldn't trade Pace for any OT in the league.

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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    Avenger, keep telling yourself that - Pace is a stud, don't get me wrong - but Walter Jones was already top on almost everybody's list LAST YEAR before the Hawks made it to the Super Bowl and when the Rams had won 3 straight over the Hawks.

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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    If the Rams went to the Super Bowl and Seattle was 6-10 last year, Pace would be at the top of everyone's list.

    I wouldn't trade Pace for any OT in the league.
    I know my opinion is never going to be seen as impartial but I don't think that's true. People didn't just start saying Walter was better than Orlando in the past few months. Both are amazing but Walter has been more consistent IMO.
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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    In my opinion...

    Pace is coming off one of the worst seasons he has had. The year before I thought he dropped off as well in comparison to the pervious few. Don't get me wrong, and I do still think he is one of the best but the kid needs to step up his game this season to stay on top. Jones has been much more consistent during his tenure.

  6. #6
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    If the Rams went to the Super Bowl and Seattle was 6-10 last year, Pace would be at the top of everyone's list.
    Sorry to jump on the wagon here Av, but this seems like a rather silly statement to me. If the Rams had in fact gone to the Super Bowl instead of going 6-10, then it would have in some part been because of better play from Pace. Just like if the Seahawks went 6-10 instead of going to the Super Bowl, part of the reason for that bad record would likely be attributed to Jones not playing as well as he could. So obviously people would be talking about Pace more if the Rams had success, since that likely would mean Pace had more success.

    Let's face it, Pace did not play perfect ball last year. The reason Jones gets credit, though he's been getting it for a couple seasons now, is because he contributed to his team's Super Bowl journey by playing very good football. Pace played good football as well, but had his share of mistakes.

    Look at the numbers from last season:

    Pace: 16 starts, 6 sacks allowed, 8 false starts
    Jones: 15 starts, 2.5 sacks allowed, 1 holding call, 2 false starts

    I think a lot of this, particularly the sack numbers, relate to the offense and the pass-heavy gameplan we would frequently run. Defenders could frequently just pin their ears back and rush the passer, especially late in games where we were forced to play catch up and couldn't afford to keep running the ball.

    I'm anxious to see if, in a more balanced offense this season, Pace can improve on his numbers. But eight false starts is a trend that Pace has had for years now. Over the last five years, Pace has averaged over 7 false starts a season. Compare that to Jones' average - 1.2.

    Personally, I think Orlando Pace is as good as any tackle in the league from a technique standpoint, and that's supported by the fact that in the last six years he's been called for holding only once. That's simply amazing, and tells me that he has exceptional technique for his position. I believe he's a top five offensive tackle in this league.

    But the thing Pace needs to work on is the false starts. An average of seven a year for the past five years is just excessive, and maybe now that he's obligated to be back in camp he'll be able to fix that. I also believe a more balanced offense is going to help reduce those sack numbers. But it's not all scheme and coaching. Pace has work he needs to do if he wants to retake that top position.

    So right now, I'd have to put Jones on the top. Pace? I'd rank probably at the #3 spot going into this season. Still clearly one of the best in the league.
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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    So right now, I'd have to put Jones on the top. Pace? I'd rank probably at the #3 spot going into this season. Still clearly one of the best in the league.
    If Pace is number 3 according to you, who is your number 2? Pace clearly in my eyes is either #1a with Jones or #2. Ogden has clearly lost a step and could possibly be ranked behind Anderson and/or Glenn.
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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    If Pace is number 3 according to you, who is your number 2? Pace clearly in my eyes is either #1a with Jones or #2. Ogden has clearly lost a step and could possibly be ranked behind Anderson and/or Glenn.
    If I was forced to make a list right now, and I'm ranking offensive tackles going into this season, it'd probably be Jones, then Willie Anderson, then Pace. With that said, if Pace cuts down on the false starts and through either a change of scheme or improved individual play reduces his sack number, he'll quickly rise back up the list. But going into this season, I'd likely give Anderson the nudge.
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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    There are some very valid points raised in this thread. I wouldnt want to live off the difference between pace and jones, i think that they are the two best. I wouldnt want to decide the difference on false starts either, although it has some relevance. I agree jones is the more consistent, but part of it is the play calling and the quality of the rest of the offensive line.

    Its hard to compare pace to jones when jones has had hutchinson beside him and that has to help in a lot of ways.

    One point i would make is that pace and jones dont get holding calls for the same reason that no one called travelling on michael jordan. Its not that they dont hold, its that the refs dont call it on them unless it is completely and totally flagrant and niether of those two calls commit those type of fouls very often and even then, i think the refs cut the superstars a break.

    The holding call on locklear in the fourth quarter of the super bowl would NEVER have been called on big walter, never ever ever.

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel
    I agree jones is the more consistent, but part of it is the play calling and the quality of the rest of the offensive line.

    Its hard to compare pace to jones when jones has had hutchinson beside him and that has to help in a lot of ways.
    Two very good points, GC. Which is why if I were making an official ranking of OTs, it would be made in very very light pencil. I'm really anxious to see how Pace performs outside of Martz's system and with a decent LG beside him in Incognito. Furthermore, I'm anxious to see how well Jones does without Hutchinson beside him. Really, I think when you look at the top left tackles in this game, there really isn't a whole lot of separation between them. Guys like Jones, Pace, Anderson, etc etc are all playing at very high levels and all are big cornerstones to their team's success.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    Very good argument from all and especially Nick who brought up some wonderful stats that I did not know about. The holding ( or lack of) penalties are amazing for Pace, and I truly think that having Incognito beside him will work wonders for the duo. It should be nasty to watch SJ run to the left side behind this pair.

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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    If this survey was done after the 2003 season, Pace would be #1, no doubt IMO. However, the 2004 and 2005 seasons have put Walter Jones on top. He has been the best there is for the past two seasons, but Pace is still a close #2 in my book. Arguments could certainly be made for Anderson, Glenn, and Ogden as well. But then again guys like Levi Jones, Chris Samuels, Tra Thomas (when healthy), Marvel Smith, Jeff Backus, Chad Clifton (though a little jumpy at times)...etc.

    There's a ton of talented OTs out there with a new crop coming up. I'd say Jones followed by Pace have set themselves apart, but the rest of the top 5 and certainly the top 10 could be anybody's guess.
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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    I just have one thing to say, all of those tackles (Except Ogden and Glenn) have Pace to thank for figuring out Dwight Freeney's spin move.

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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    Watching Pace's right side: Blaine Sapaia, Claude Terrell.

    Watching Jones' right side: Steve Hutchinson.

    End of story.

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    Re: Willie Roaf's Top Five Offensive Tackles

    I wouldn't trade Pace for any OT in the league.
    I agree, IMO, and yea I'm a homer, Pace is the best.
    I haven't watch Jones closely unless it is against the RAMS, but I would like to see what he does against Little.
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