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  1. #1
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    Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Won't get any better for Kurt
    Bob Glauber
    Friday, June 4, 2004

    Yes, even Kurt Warner can't figure out how it has come to this: How one minute, he was the most incredible story in pro sports, the stockboy-at-the-local-HyVee-turned-Super Bowl hero. And how the next minute, he was wearing a headset and a blank stare, wondering where in the world it all went wrong.

    "Sometimes you just sit back and say, 'Wow, how did I get here?'" the former St. Louis Rams quarterback said yesterday. "You wonder where it's going."

    Warner hopes it's going back in the other direction, that the pendulum will begin to swing in the direction of a Super Bowl now that he has left the wonder and heartbreak of the Rams behind and come to the Giants. He believes he again can be the dominant quarterback he was from 1999-2001, when he won a Super Bowl, went to another, collected two NFL MVP trophies and was named a Super Bowl MVP.

    Sorry, Kurt, I have my doubts.

    "I think that two or three years down the road, it's all going to make sense, and that a lot is going to be accomplished," he said. "Sometimes it's hard to make sense of it, but all I can do is take it day by day and see what tomorrow brings."

    Warner's enthusiasm is understandable in light of his experience the last two seasons, in which he failed to win any of his eight starts, suffered three broken bones in his throwing hand and a concussion, and ultimately lost his job.

    But Warner is kidding himself if he thinks he can get back to where he once was.

    He certainly gives the Giants a chance to win more games than if No. 1 pick Eli Manning were thrown into the starting lineup right away. But to imagine Warner throwing darts the way he did with The Greatest Show on Turf in St. Louis is simply unrealistic.

    Once he steps onto the field against the blitz-happy Eagles in the regular-season opener Sept. 12, you will see the same problems that led to Warner's fall from grace. You will see him lock on to receivers the way he did during his difficult times in St. Louis. You will see him get jittery under a heavy rush. And with the shaky offensive line the Giants figure to have, Warner certainly can't expect the kind of protection that once gave him time in his seven-step drops to fuel the Rams' high-octane attack. It doesn't help that the Giants are without the collective speed and talent around Warner that he enjoyed with the Rams.

    Warner can't possibly be as bad as he was in last year's opener against the Giants, when he fumbled six times and suffered six sacks. A mild concussion can explain some of those problems, but certainly not all.

    One player who was with the Rams during their two Super Bowl seasons said Warner slowed down noticeably in recent years, that he was not making on-field decisions as quickly as he did when he first came into the league and that he was becoming increasingly jumpy when he sensed a heavy pass rush.

    In fact, by the time Mike Martz sat Warner after the opener last season, there was substantial, albeit quiet, support among many Rams players for making the change to Marc Bulger.

    Warner played the good soldier the rest of the season, never publicly complaining about Martz's decision. And there were no harsh words about his Rams experience yesterday, only fond recollections of the past and a warm-and-fuzzy look to the future.

    "We had so much success and things were so great, you'd love to ride off into the sunset," Warner said. "Unfortunately, things didn't turn out that way. Those six years were the greatest six years of my life. But I'm looking forward to nothing but better things in New York."

    In fact, Warner hopes to spend the rest of his career in New York, however long that may be. Another red flag: How is he supposed to be this great tutor for Manning when he's looking to play here another four or five years? Manning is the Giants' future, even though Coughlin has decided he'd rather bring him along slowly with a veteran presence like Warner.

    Even if Warner plays well, the Giants shouldn't sign him to a long-term contract next year. This might be Warner's team in 2004, but it's Manning's team in 2005 and beyond.

    And who knows? If Warner fails to recapture the form that made him football's best player from 1999-2001, it might be Manning's team this year after all.

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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Nick,

    I guess for some reality bites harder on the !@#$%^ites

    GO RAMS

    KW LOL in NY you will need it!

    BON CHANCE

    And Brenda well fermez ta bouche, tous le temps!

    FLO
    Socrates: Surf to live! and Live to Surf!

  3. #3
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    They have a worse O line, a RB who can't hold onto the ball, and not alot of speed at WR.

    Don't expect too much.

  4. #4
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Everyone here knows that in 1999 Kurt was all that and a bag of Nacho Cheese Doritos....after that, things never seemed to fit together as well as they did in '99. The Rams had the right combination of people at the right time in the right place for everything to fit. Will Kurt Warner be a success in NY? I hope so, for his sake. Will he take them to a playoff season? I seriously doubt it. The 'ants don't have the same mix of players, talent and coaching that the '99 Rams had....so I think KW will do OK, but won't light up the record books again.
    As far as Manning goes....after reviewing his records, things I have read about his performance so far in practice, and other things I have seen and heard, I think he is not the QB that NY was hoping to get...I really think that we have a better pick in Smoker. Sure, there was that suspension thing, but otherwise, Smoker looks to be another Rams power player, a name that just might go down in history.
    OK, I got off topic....beer has a tendency to make me ramble on. For instance, I end up sounding like Mojo Jojo, repeating the same things using different words. You know, saying the same thing over and over, never repeating the same thing twice. Or another example, saying things different ways while meaning the same thing....OK, I'll shut up now....

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFamily
    As far as Manning goes....after reviewing his records, things I have read about his performance so far in practice, and other things I have seen and heard, I think he is not the QB that NY was hoping to get...I really think that we have a better pick in Smoker. Sure, there was that suspension thing, but otherwise, Smoker looks to be another Rams power player, a name that just might go down in history.
    Wait a sec, you're saying....

    Smoker > Manning??

    I'm not sure I'm buying into this one...
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  6. #6
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Wait a sec, you're saying....

    Smoker > Manning??

    I'm not sure I'm buying into this one...
    Yes, I am. Manning is basically playing his name. He isn't the QB Smoker is according to statistics.

    Quarterback
    Eli Manning
    College: Mississippi
    Year: Senior
    Height: 6'5"
    Weight: 218
    Birthday: January 3, 1981

    Strengths: Eli Manning provides name brand comfort. You know what you’re getting with this prospect, but you might get a little more than you’d first expect. Growing up in the shadow of both his father and his older brother, Eli seems unfazed by the hype that has been heaved upon him. Like his kin, Manning is blessed with the family quarterbacking genes, including the long body, strong arm, and even stronger brain. But Eli’s also got a bit of mojo working for him, too.

    More laid back than the uptight Peyton, Eli showed some brass cahoones in following his father’s well-respected footsteps at Ole Miss. The youngest Manning has good field vision and is an accurate passer. In this year’s spring game, he was razor sharp completing 14 of 20 passes for four touchdowns.

    Manning has also set numerous records at Ole Miss. He broke his own single-season marks last year for passing yards, completions, and attempts. He’s also already the Rebels’ career leader in passing yardage and touchdowns. Manning has shown remarkable consistency, and at one stretch, he went sixteen consecutive games with a TD pass thrown. That streak was broken against Florida, his brother’s arch nemesis. Unlike Peyton, however, Eli was able to vanquish the Gators. Manning capped off an impressive junior campaign with 313 yards and no interceptions in the bowl game against Nebraska.

    Areas for Concern: Despite what you might think, Manning had something of a quiet year as a junior, and his stats did show some decline from 2001. While by most accounts he is still an accurate passer, his completion percentage dipped more than five percent from his sophomore season, and his touchdown-to-interception ratio also slipped considerably.

    A weak Rebel running attack has not helped Manning; regardless, he did have a few uncharacteristic games in 2002. In a 42-7 loss against Alabama, Manning felt heavy pressure and succumbed to four sacks. He also gave up a fumble and an interception in the contest. His three interceptions against Auburn were troubling, the last of which coming under two minutes to play to seal the win for the Tigers. Manning’s junior year regression came on the heels of throwing six interceptions in the final two games of his sophomore season. There might be concerns as to how well he reads the blitz, and when he’s under the kind of pressure he was in 2002, Manning often is found throwing off his back foot and off-balance.

    Manning isn’t much of a scrambler. He scored only the first rushing touchdown of his college career late last season. Though he would later run in another one to raise his total to two, Manning’s career rushing totals at Ole Miss are a negative 107 yards. Manning might also not be a cold-weather kind of player, having grown up in the deep south.

    Playing in the tough Southeastern Conference, Manning has been unable to ignite any serious title hope thus far in Oxford. Archie has also been a tad overbearing in shielding Eli from any Heisman hype, though he has backed down a bit this summer. One would hope that his father would have enough confidence in his offspring to show he was tough enough to handle the hoopla and expectations, especially if he’s going to possibly be a top overall pick.

    How Does He Look in Steel Blue? It won’t be happening with David Carr and Dave Ragone still around Reliant Park. Given how high Manning will go, he will be long gone before the Texans even think QB, and that’s even if the thought crosses their minds. Having one Manning already in the AFC South, it would be a scary prospect to have a second one travelling to Houston every season. With the other three teams in the division not likely to spend a first round pick on Manning, however, this fortunately is a long shot possibility at best.


    Sunday, April 25, 2004


    OVERVIEW

    Jeff Smoker
    Position:
    Quarterback
    College:
    Michigan State
    Height: 6-3
    Weight: 223
    Hometown:
    Manheim, Pa.

    Remarkable reclamation project who emerged as one of the nation's elite passers in 2003 under the guidance of quarterback guru, head coach John L. Smith … To say that Smoker was "reborn" with the installation of the new spread offense would be an understatement … He not only re-established himself on the football field, but also away from the game … Smoker was suspended for the last five games of the 2002 season after admitting to a substance abuse problem. He participated in spring drills but was not allowed to compete for the starting job, but the coaching staff saw a player rededicated to the game and gave him one last opportunity to prove that, when he was named the starter prior to the 2003 season opener … He plays his best when the game is on the line and has a knack for making things happen because he remains cool under pressure … He became the first quarterback in MSU history to reach the 3,000-yard passing milestone in a season in 2003 … "Jeff Smoker provided the one building block in the spread offense," coach Smith said. "Jeff gave us an opportunity to win on Saturdays. I'm amazed at what he accomplished as a first-year quarterback in this offensive system. Jeff had an extremely accurate arm and the knack for staying out of trouble. He made throws that gave our receiver an opportunity to catch it or no one else." … In 40 games, he completed 685 of 1,150 passes (60.0 percent) for 8,932 yards, 61 touchdowns and 39 interceptions, breaking the previous school career records of 467 passes completions by Jim Miller (1990-93), 789 pass attempts by Ed Smith (1976-78), 5,809 yards by Dave Yarema (1982-86) and 46 touchdowns by Bill Burke (1996-99) … Also set the MSU all-time record with 8,714 yards in total offense, surpassing the previous mark of 5,556 yards by Ed Smith.

    ANALYSIS
    Positives: Has a slender frame, but shows good body structure with the potential to add additional bulk … Has defined legs and calves, broad shoulders and good upper-body strength … Made good improvements in 2003 in his pass setup, displaying a better ability to set his feet and step into his throws … Also refined his throwing motion (from three-quarters to overhead), which decreased the windup that he showed in his delivery in the past … Shows very good velocity on his short and intermediate tosses … Improved his play-calling ability and appears much better poised when pressured … Adequate moving in and out of the pocket, showing a good feel and anticipation for the receiver's breaks … Decent scrambler who can throw on the run.

    AGILITY TESTS
    4.95 in the 40-yard dash … Bench presses 225 pounds eight times … 480-pound dead lift … 29-inch vertical jump … 8-foot-3 broad jump … 4.38 20-yard shuttle … 29½-inch arm length … 9 7/8-inch hands … Right-handed … Wears contacts.

    HIGH SCHOOL
    Attended Manheim (Pa.) Central High, playing football for coach Mike Williams … Consensus All-America, who was ranked among the nation's top prospects by SuperPrep (No. 23) and ESPN.com recruiting analyst Tom Lemming … Rated among the country's top 10 quarterbacks by PrepStar (No. 3), SuperPrep (No. 3) and Lemming (No. 6) … Ranked as the Eastern Region's No. 1 quarterback and the No. 4 player overall by PrepStar … Named to PrepStar's All-Eastern and SuperPrep's All-Northeastern teams … First-team all-state quarterback, who completed 150 of 235 passes (63.8 percent) for 2,458 yards, 26 touchdowns and only seven interceptions as a senior … Rushed for nearly 600 yards and 10 scores in 1999 … Connected on 110 of 173 throws (63.6 percent) for 1,993 yards, 17 touchdowns and only five interceptions as a junior … Compiled a 30-4 record (.882) as a three-year starter.

    PERSONAL
    Psychology major … Son of Jay and Sue Smoker … Born June 13, 1981 … Resides in Manheim, Pa.

    Courtesy of NFLDraftScout.com, Powered by The Sports Xchange


    OK, I posted it, now you decide...who got the best bargain?

  7. #7
    talkstoangels61 Guest

    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Hummmmh!.................okay fellow ram fans. I was going to leave this subject alone!....But, after reading these threads i cannot for the life of me even begin to do this!

    #1....I'm not to much of a betting man but, i will take all comers on a friendly wager as i have done in the past with Tex! kurt Warner with adequate protection will once again light up the score board! No doubt in my mind! all takers are welcome.

    This will be to our charity of choice! any amount is fine! It will not only be to prove to whoever about Kurt's ability but, the needy will prosper! Your opinions are respected by me, by all means! But, are you willing to back your words up?............I AM!

    Some of you could not have ever played much football on the offensive side of the ball,or you would never have doubt about our ex-Super bowl QB! fella's the O-line didn't help kW's matters or even the play calling most of the time!

    here's the way i see it! MM as a OC never had the pressure on him in 99'. So he could call all the gimic plays that he wanted,granted DV had to approve them! But, you think about it for a moment! Put your feet in his shoes. You have a job that really does not have your neck in the noose! Aren't you more likely to be a gambler and a lot more at ease doing things that you would not do if in a higher position?.........I have and would of!



    and to keep thinking that the only reason this offense is succeeding is because of MM your totally naive! Point in general! .......say the Rams have or had the personnel that other teams have or had....(example) the Cards.Lions, Bears,Chargers,Bengals,browns,need i go on? Do you think that honestly MM could have taken these teams to the Super bowl and i don't want to hear that it is not close to being the same! These other teams have very good player's! If not we should have really blown them out! Don't you think?

    It has been the players that have been bailing MM out these years! Not MM 's himself! He as a OC in my mind were a much better play caller that he is as a HC!............No pressure in 99" It was DV"s then! So that's why he was alot more creative then than he has been of late!

    Ok getting back to the friendly wager................KW will not only win this year but,he will excel once again!The Giants just might be a team to be dealt with!
    I think he will not only do well but, he will post much better stats and wins than MB and the Rams!.............sad thing is i truly hope that i am wrong!

    For those of you that believe KW is washed up !It's now you opportunity to help your charity's cause! No limit here! It will be for a good cause, and not i told you so!


    Ram on fans and team!

    As long as you continue too post your negative beliefs about KW. I will continue to post my positive beliefs! Sorry but, fair is fair!

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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    I think he will not only do well but, he will post much better stats and wins than MB and the Rams!.............sad thing is i truly hope that i am wrong!
    Wow, give me some of this bet.

    I love Warner and thank him for all he did for the Rams, I really do.

    BUT

    There is no way on Gods green earth is Warner going to out perform Bulger. Bulger has all the tools to play with on his side. Warner has little to nothing.

    Now whats that bet :tough:


  9. #9
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    I'll take Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt over Amani Toomer and David Tyree, not Ike Hilliard according to the depth chart on the Giants home page, everyday and twice Sunday.

    Not to mention Marshall Faulk over Tiki Barber.

    As Dez says, what's the bet and lets go.

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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Not to mention our Offensive Line over theirs. The Giants did nothing to upgrade that position and that was one of the worst O lines in the NFL.

    Remember, they went 4-12 and passed up Gallery for Manning. They play in possibly the strongest division in the NFC. The Eagles are tough, Dallas made the playoffs and have a pretty good defense, and the Redskins went out and try to buy a championship.

  11. #11
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFamily
    Manning is basically playing his name. He isn't the QB Smoker is according to statistics.
    Statistics are statistics. Manning outperformed Peyton's college stats. What does that mean to you?



    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFamily
    OK, I posted it, now you decide...who got the best bargain?
    Well, the best bargain is a different matter. The Giants clearly overpaid for Manning, where all we paid for Smoker is a sixth round pick. If Smoker ends up performing (he's third string now so the liklihood is slim) and Manning busts, of course we got the better bargain. But I don't think there's any reason to say that yet, since we haven't seen either play a single down of pro football.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Eli Manning is the real deal. He played at Ole Miss, not Tennessee. You haven't seen Ole Miss play for any National Championships have you? Even though, I was at the game when Memphis beat Tennessee at Memphis. Peyton was the QB. Was hoarse for three days. BTW Ike, Memphis also beat Ole Miss last year, so our alma mater has owned the Manning's. LOL

    Anyway, Eli is scary with talent. He has a gun, can scramble a little, and probably has forgot more about football than all of us will ever know. Don't sell this kid short, he's a thoroughbred.

    However, watch a kid named Danny Wimprine from the University of Memphis this year. This QB has a major gun. This is a QB Martz salivates about. And, CBS Sportsline has Memphis ranked 13, so they do have some talent. 13, wow. Can't believe it.

  13. #13
    talkstoangels61 Guest

    Talking Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Dez and Tex,
    Tend to agree with you about our weapons 100% but, the fact of the matter is .Will MB use them? You know that Kurt will use his!

    The early part of my post also said with adequate pass protection!.......lol.......but, i did put myself out there for the taking! So i'll honor my bets! Who ever wins the others will have to donate $$$$$$ to their choice of charity's! Kurt will have to be the starter though! Covering my butt here!........lol......Oh by the way Dez, your avatar is the way i felt after the Rams cut KW!..................It made me turn green also! glad that your feeling the same way!....lol....he he....and for you Tex, glad you have horns on your head down there in Texas because you know what the old saying is about texans!...lol..he he......just kidding......lol......couldn't resist!........my bad!.........sorry...........now where's Av?.......lol.........
    Last edited by talkstoangels61; -06-06-2004 at 11:51 PM.

  14. #14
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    The early part of my post also said with adequate pass protection!
    It'll be interesting to see how you guys judge that if you do end up betting some money.
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    Re: Won't Get Any Better for Kurt / Newsday.com

    I am all over that bet for $100 alex, er talks... for KW to get mauled most of the season as he will be served up like a daniel against the first two teams on their schedule.

    One more contigency TTA, you can't wear your Giants T while rooting for our beloved RAMS :tongue: :confused:

    Good luck, KW!

    Hey the best part of (if there is such a thing) for KW leaving is we will not have to see those close-ups of Brenda any longer LO<L :redface:
    Socrates: Surf to live! and Live to Surf!

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