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  1. #61
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    May I ask why you believe this? The other top RB's as ranked by footballsfuture.com are Beanie Wells, Knowshon Moreno, and LeSean McCoy. Two of the three were already picked, and McCoy does not fit with the Giants needs quite as well as Davis. There is no way he would last until the third round, and since NY still has the option of picking up a quality WR in free agency or via trade, I don't consider Davis going at #29 to be even close to a stretch.
    First off, they have Donald Brown ranked above him.
    Second off, most people have davis ranked between their 9th and 20th running back. Football's future is going out on a HUGE limb there by even putting him at 5. Why would the giants pass on brown for smith?
    Davis 5'11 218, brown is 5'11 210. Not to mention Brown is a better prospect and is faster.
    Running back ranks
    nfldraftcountdown: 9th
    draftbible: 20th
    Walterfootball: 10th
    Scout.com: 9th
    warroomreport: 11th
    The football expert: 7th
    cdsdraft: 13th
    Kffl: 10th

    You should check more than one site before you do a mock, because one site could be reaching.
    Here is scott wright's draft profile on davis.
    James Davis Height: 5-11 | Weight: 218 | 40-Time: 4.59

    Strengths:
    Good size and bulk....Excellent instincts....Terrific vision...Very good patience...Strong and will break tackles...Has some power and runs hard...Nice balance...Superb inside runner...Hits the hole with authority and has a burst...A reliable blocker and gives good effort...Good ball security...Durable with a lot of experience...Very productive...Has a nose for the endzone...Is mature and a team player.

    Weaknesses:
    Does not have elite timed speed or quickness...Doesn't have much wiggle and isn't very elusive...Average route runner with limited experience catching the ball...Hands are a question mark...Has never carried the load and been a workhorse ... May not have a ton of upside.

    Notes:
    Enjoyed an exceptional college career and really made his mark in the Tigers record books...Initially declared for the 2008 NFL Draft but decided to return to Death Valley for his senior season when he saw so many other underclassmen running backs going pro...Split carries with C.J. Spiller the last few years and doesn't have as many miles on his tires as most four-year starters...Underwent surgery to repair a separated left shoulder in the summer of '08...Numbers were down as a senior but that was due in large part to a lack of opportunities and an inexperienced offensive line...Very good natural runner but isn't flashy and won't wow anyone in a workout setting...Has starting potential and should at the very least be a solid backup...Underrated and could be a steal for someone late on Day One or early on Day Two.


    Notes: The main thing i see here is "round two or three" "could be a steal for someone LATE on day one or early in day two"


  2. #62
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Went with kind of an unconventional pick for the Rams, but Matthews was one of the best players on the board and certainly improves a Rams defense in need of playmakers at the linebacker position. I'm sure some people will be turned off because of the steroid rumors, but until there's confirmation that he tested positive, I'm not paying attention to it. Receiver was certainly an option, but ultimately I think Matthews gives the Rams a lot of options and could line up any number of places. He'd be an interesting player for Spags and Fajole to plug in on defense.

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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Went with kind of an unconventional pick for the Rams, but Matthews was one of the best players on the board and certainly improves a Rams defense in need of playmakers at the linebacker position. I'm sure some people will be turned off because of the steroid rumors, but until there's confirmation that he tested positive, I'm not paying attention to it. Receiver was certainly an option, but ultimately I think Matthews gives the Rams a lot of options and could line up any number of places. He'd be an interesting player for Spags and Fajole to plug in on defense.
    I love it. Hard to go wrong with a USC LB in my opinion. And like I said from day 1 hour 1 of this whole steroid rumor........it's crap! I'm sure nfldraftbible is loving the new revenue stream from the hits they received over this nonsense, but bottomline.........it's crap.

    Matthews at #35, following Smith at #2 is an excellent pickup.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  4. #64
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Wow... I hate to say it, Nick... but I HATE that pick. I think Matthews is 50% hype, 40% product of being surrounded by very talented players, and 10% good NFL prospect. If you look at his numbers, they really don't jump off the page. If his name was Clay Smith and he played for a mediocre college team, he'd be a mid round pick at best.

    I would have gone with Connor Barwin, Evander "Ziggy" Hood, or possibly Kenny Britt over Matthews.

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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Wow... I hate to say it, Nick... but I HATE that pick. I think Matthews is 50% hype, 40% product of being surrounded by very talented players, and 10% good NFL prospect. If you look at his numbers, they really don't jump off the page. If his name was Clay Smith and he played for a mediocre college team, he'd be a mid round pick at best.

    I would have gone with Connor Barwin, Evander "Ziggy" Hood, or possibly Kenny Britt over Matthews.
    I don't know, AV; I think maybe Matthews' is just a case of being a late bloomer. The guy walked on as a 190-lb. Safety, but packed on 50 pounds in 4 years, worked his way onto the field and still has tons of upside.

    I think Barwin, Hood, & Britt (though Britt's "prima donna" potential scares me) would all be fine picks, but Matthews @ 35 has merit.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    I don't know, AV; I think maybe Matthews' is just a case of being a late bloomer. The guy walked on as a 190-lb. Safety, but packed on 50 pounds in 4 years, worked his way onto the field and still has tons of upside.
    That may be true, but do you draft someone at #35 because they have "upside"? I just have a hard time getting around his lack of productivity. 13 games, 56 tackles. That less than 5 per game. Barwin's tackle totals are similar, but then you look at "big plays" and a real difference is revealed:

    Matthews: 9.0 tackles for loss/4.5 sacks
    Barwin: 16.0 tackles for loss/11.0 sacks

    Frankly, if the draft played out this way, I'd probably go with Hood. While he's not exactly a "need" position (UT), I think he'd be the BPA.

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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    That may be true, but do you draft someone at #35 because they have "upside"? I just have a hard time getting around his lack of productivity. 13 games, 56 tackles. That less than 5 per game. Barwin's tackle totals are similar, but then you look at "big plays" and a real difference is revealed:

    Matthews: 9.0 tackles for loss/4.5 sacks
    Barwin: 16.0 tackles for loss/11.0 sacks

    Frankly, if the draft played out this way, I'd probably go with Hood. While he's not exactly a "need" position (UT), I think he'd be the BPA.
    Maybe so, I don't know. I'm curious to hear Nick's response.

    P.S. At this point, I'd probably have to give the BPA nod to Pettigrew. I'm rather surprised he's still available.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #68
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Wow... I hate to say it, Nick... but I HATE that pick. I think Matthews is 50% hype, 40% product of being surrounded by very talented players, and 10% good NFL prospect.
    Hype and being surrounded by talented players has nothing to do with the fact that Clay Matthews has been (arguably, I suppose) the most impressive of the USC linebackers when it comes to performance this offseason.

    Simply put, he's tested through the roof. He had an impressive Senior Bowl that really started the conversation about first round possibilities. He then followed that up with a very good showing at the Combine, where he performed among the best at his position and even outshined Aaron Curry in a number of tests (10-yard split, shuttle, and cone).

    All indications are that he looked excellent at USC's pro day, and IMO really solidified himself as a first round pick. Go check out the NFLN recap of USC's pro day on YouTube. Matthews is the first guy Mayock and Davis are raving about, and they show a great highlight of Clay making a leaping interception that some cornerbacks would struggle to come down with.

    Now, obviously you don't want to draft a guy simply because he's a workout warrior. But Matthews pairs great athletic ability with what I would consider strong production given his circumstances (will go into this more below), top-notch intangibles and work ethic, as well as tremendous potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    If you look at his numbers, they really don't jump off the page. If his name was Clay Smith and he played for a mediocre college team, he'd be a mid round pick at best.
    One, I don't think Matthews numbers are that bad. If you look at the USC defense as a whole, nobody finished with more than 80 tackles. This is a team where Maualuga is the guy everyone is paying attention to, but the plays are being dispersed through the entire linebacking corps, Matthews included. Go back to 2007 as well. Again, no one finished with more than 80 tackles. In 2006, Keith Rivers was the leading tackler with 85 stops.

    Consider that Matthews was only 1.5 TFL behind the team leader in Brian Cushing, and his 4.5 sacks finished second behind team-leader Kyle Moore, who finished with five. When you look at how other guys on this team performed, I don't think Matthews' numbers are that alarming. None of these guys seem to be blowing it off the charts on the stat page, which to me is likely a combination of the group talent as well as what they may be asked to do in that scheme. Keep in mind Keith Rivers was a top ten pick out of USC despite never having as many tackles for loss or sacks in a season as Matthews did in 2008.

    Two, regarding your second sentence, what college football powerhouse does Jason Smith play for? Baylor has won 16 games in the last four years while Smith was on the field for them, but it hasn't stopped Smith (who was a two-star guard recruit by the way) from becoming one of this draft's top prospects. Why? Because of his physical skills, intangibles, and upside. It's entirely possible for talented prospects from mediocre teams to rise to the top and rank among other more well known prospects from bigger schools. Scouts didn't seem to have a hard time recognizing the ability of Larry English out of Northern Illinois, and he's also a contender for first round consideration.

    If Matthews had a different name and played for a mediocre school, he'd still be in the discussion because of what he brings to the table and what he could become at the next level. Matthews' rise to first round consideration isn't based on his school or his last name. Matthews had to walk on at USC, so how much impact could his name have had? He had to grind his teeth as a back-up and on special teams before getting his chance as a senior. I also don't see how Matthews being from USC has really inflated him that much either. If teams simply want a guy from USC, they could take Maualuga or Cushing. But some scouts feel Matthews may have the best pro career of all of them because of his skill set and potential.

    Having to wait your turn behind other talented players isn't exactly uncommon at USC; just ask Mark Sanchez, whom you felt at one point should have been a strong option for the Rams' first round pick despite just one year's starting experience and a résumé that features more upside than it does production.

    IMHO, Matthews rise has been because of what he's accomplished, not where he accomplished it or who in his family accomplished it before him.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    That may be true, but do you draft someone at #35 because they have "upside"?
    Of course you do! You draft everyone because they have upside.

    A team drafts Jason Smith because, despite only starting 24 games at left tackle for a college team that blocks predominantly out of the two-point stance, they love his upside and envision him becoming a brick wall on the left side of their offensive line.

    A team drafts Michael Crabtree because, despite only playing wide receiver for two seasons in college for a team that runs their passing attack out of the rather gimmicky spread formation, they love his upside in a more traditional offense and believe he can become the next Larry Fitzgerald or Anquan Boldin.

    A team drafts William Beatty because, despite the fact that he was generally mediocre before his senior season and likely needs to work on his strength, power, and aggressiveness at the next level, they love his upside and feel he has the upside to develop into a capable left tackle in the NFL.

    A team drafts Antonio Appleby because, despite averaging just 67 tackles and six tackles for loss over his three years as a starter and being less heralded than guys like Chris Long or Clint Sintim, they like his upside as an inside linebacker at the next level and feel his size and skills could help him become a very effective player in the middle.

    Besides, we're not even talking about using a first round pick on Matthews. We're talking about using a second round pick on a guy who could very easily go in the top twenty but has now slipped into the second round.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I just have a hard time getting around his lack of productivity. 13 games, 56 tackles. That less than 5 per game. Barwin's tackle totals are similar, but then you look at "big plays" and a real difference is revealed:
    Well, I've tried to offer some input about Matthews' numbers earlier in my response. As for Barwin specifically, I don't think he projects as well to 4-3 LB as Matthews does, so he didn't get as much consideration from me in that spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Frankly, if the draft played out this way, I'd probably go with Hood. While he's not exactly a "need" position (UT), I think he'd be the BPA.
    Hood got some consideration, but Matthews was the BPA on my board when I made the pick. The Rams' interest in Hood was on my mind, but as you said, he plays at a position where we already have a first rounder developing. Matthews' availability made it difficult for me to justify taking a lesser player (IMO) at a position of less need.

  9. #69
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    I just don't buy those arguments. His numbers were only mediocre, but here's why. I'd rather have someone with good numbers. He's tested well in the offseason. How many workout warriors have become busts?

    I also question where he'd fit in on this defense. He's obviously not a MLB, and has only marginal size (240 lbs.) for the SLB position. I'm not sure why Barwin, who plays at about 254 lbs., couldn't be a 4-3 SLB.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I just don't buy those arguments. His numbers were only mediocre, but here's why. I'd rather have someone with good numbers. He's tested well in the offseason. How many workout warriors have become busts?

    I also question where he'd fit in on this defense. He's obviously not a MLB, and has only marginal size (240 lbs.) for the SLB position. I'm not sure why Barwin, who plays at about 254 lbs., couldn't be a 4-3 SLB.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
    I suppose we will. Again, I don't think his numbers were mediocre given his situation. They're not eye popping but they're among the best on that team, which IMO is good for a first year starter. Fewer TFL and sacks didn't stop Keith Rivers from going in the top ten when he came out. There's just so much talent on that defense that it's difficult for any one player to stand out on the stat sheet. You're willing to forgive Antonio Appleby for a lack of eye popping numbers, and thought highly of Mark Sanchez despite limited experience, so I'm not sure what specifically about Matthews is a hang up for you.

    I mean, if you'd rather have good numbers, the Rams could wait and draft Michael Tauiliili out of Duke. 140 tackles, 13 TFL, 3 INTs, 3 forced fumbles. Those are great numbers. But Tauiliili may not even be drafted because, again, upside and potential at the next level are huge factors in this process. College production is great but it doesn't necessarily mean the guy is or isn't going to be a good pro. You ask how many workout warriors become busts, but how many guys who finished in the record books in terms of production for their school can't take that production to the next level? The argument can be made both ways.

    I also disagree with the statement that he's obviously not a MLB. I think he could fit as a 4-3 MLB given his skill set and assuming he continues to add strength and bulk. He confirmed at his pro day that some teams are talking to him about being a MIKE linebacker as well. As for his size, he's 6'3" so he'll likely be able to put some more weight on that frame. He was 246 at the Senior Bowl, for instance.

    It's probably a moot point anyways, because I think by the time the draft rolls around later this month, Matthews probably won't be on the board when our second round pick is up.

  11. #71
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You're willing to forgive Antonio Appleby for a lack of eye popping numbers,
    In the 4th round, yes I am. In Round 2, no I'm not.

    and thought highly of Mark Sanchez despite limited experience
    Sanchez was a 1 year starter, but he put up very good numbers.

  12. #72
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    the Rams could wait and draft Michael Tauiliili
    Wow, that's way too many vowels for any one word.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #73
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    In the 4th round, yes I am. In Round 2, no I'm not.
    Well technically you've brought him up as a round three possibility as well, but I see your distinction. Still, since Matthews is a definite round one possibility despite his statistical deficiencies, I don't see him as that big of a risk in the second. As you said earlier, we can agree to disagree. I still don't think he's available there in the real draft when it's all said and done anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Wow, that's way too many vowels for any one word.
    I literally couldn't spell it. Had to copy and paste because my nose had to be right at the screen to really figure out how many i's were in there.

  14. #74
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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jbell15 View Post
    First off, they have Donald Brown ranked above him.
    Second off, most people have davis ranked between their 9th and 20th running back. Football's future is going out on a HUGE limb there by even putting him at 5. Why would the giants pass on brown for smith?
    Davis 5'11 218, brown is 5'11 210. Not to mention Brown is a better prospect and is faster.
    Running back ranks
    nfldraftcountdown: 9th
    draftbible: 20th
    Walterfootball: 10th
    Scout.com: 9th
    warroomreport: 11th
    The football expert: 7th
    cdsdraft: 13th
    Kffl: 10th

    You should check more than one site before you do a mock, because one site could be reaching.
    Here is scott wright's draft profile on davis.
    James Davis Height: 5-11 | Weight: 218 | 40-Time: 4.59

    Strengths:
    Good size and bulk....Excellent instincts....Terrific vision...Very good patience...Strong and will break tackles...Has some power and runs hard...Nice balance...Superb inside runner...Hits the hole with authority and has a burst...A reliable blocker and gives good effort...Good ball security...Durable with a lot of experience...Very productive...Has a nose for the endzone...Is mature and a team player.

    Weaknesses:
    Does not have elite timed speed or quickness...Doesn't have much wiggle and isn't very elusive...Average route runner with limited experience catching the ball...Hands are a question mark...Has never carried the load and been a workhorse ... May not have a ton of upside.

    Notes:
    Enjoyed an exceptional college career and really made his mark in the Tigers record books...Initially declared for the 2008 NFL Draft but decided to return to Death Valley for his senior season when he saw so many other underclassmen running backs going pro...Split carries with C.J. Spiller the last few years and doesn't have as many miles on his tires as most four-year starters...Underwent surgery to repair a separated left shoulder in the summer of '08...Numbers were down as a senior but that was due in large part to a lack of opportunities and an inexperienced offensive line...Very good natural runner but isn't flashy and won't wow anyone in a workout setting...Has starting potential and should at the very least be a solid backup...Underrated and could be a steal for someone late on Day One or early on Day Two.


    Notes: The main thing i see here is "round two or three" "could be a steal for someone LATE on day one or early in day two"
    Well, jbell, I study SEVERAL different sources for information, not just one. Even though there were other RB's out there with better numbers, and different writers have different opinions, I only went with a gut feeling. Davis would be a nice fit in the Giants offense. Small, powerful, and able to gain some hard-earned yardage when it's needed...sounds like what the Dr. ordered to me. And...did you forget that Davis declared for the draft last year, then changed his mind? If I remember right, his stock was quite high before he decided to stay in school.

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    Re: 2009 ClanRam Mod Mock Draft - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam View Post
    Well, jbell, I study SEVERAL different sources for information, not just one. Even though there were other RB's out there with better numbers, and different writers have different opinions, I only went with a gut feeling. Davis would be a nice fit in the Giants offense. Small, powerful, and able to gain some hard-earned yardage when it's needed...sounds like what the Dr. ordered to me. And...did you forget that Davis declared for the draft last year, then changed his mind? If I remember right, his stock was quite high before he decided to stay in school.
    My point is that he won't go in the first round, probably not in round two either.
    your point is that he can go in round one.
    Agree to disagree for now.
    we won't know who's right until the draft.

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