We'll see what the Giants think.
OO sorry, I misread his Pro Day number. He did 4.65 in the shuttle. But his performance was called DOMINATING...so, I stand on my opinion. Wow, you put DaMontre Moore, rated about 40 in most rankings, high up that's OK, but ypou get a stat moxe up, you suck, yea, OK.
You put the worst height weight safety in 10 year to be considered in round one at all, in the middle of round one, IGNORING horrible 40 times for a man his size. He will never be a star FS in the NFL, and his size would be an issue at SS. He's an in the box safety, period.
Some team might draft him in round one, but SO many players are well above him that I can't see them passing on a better player to take him early.
He's a good prospect, but those guys go in round two if they don't have the MEASURABLES. All you have to do is study the last ten drafts, and see where the speed guys moved up, and the slow combine guys moved way down.
I suggest you put down that old Lindy's with January scouting reports and rankings, and start watching NFL Network every day, and NFL 32 on ESPN, and anything you can see anywhere on draftable players, like youtube videos, and also up to date informantion after Pro Days.
The information is out there, so why don't you newer draftniks take advantage of it? Take too much time?
SO much info gets on here, good info, but don't you read it and try to see the truth in it?
If you are going to be INTO the draft and do mocks like you know the deal, then you owe it to whoever reads your take to get all the facts and all the opinions.
A few points.
One, if you're going to come into a discussion thread for a group mock and proceed to tell those participating in it how wrong they are, then you've got to learn to take it on the chin when someone then points out when you've made a mistake with your facts.
Two, criticizing someone for going against popular opinion on Moore rings very hollow when you yourself are going against popular opinion with your thoughts on Vaccaro.
Now, as a forum mod, I'm requesting that additional responses to this thread remain on the topic of the actual picks themselves. Comments criticizing other members will be deleted, as they are unnecessary and risk derailing the thread and group mock as a whole.
Questions or comments about that request can be sent to me via private message. Thank you!
Remind me, Barry... when were you an NFL GM... or Head of Scouting... or a coach... or a player?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Waller
Your arrogant and presumptuous condescension adds nothing to the discussion. This is not an exact science. If it was, there wouldn't be busts and diamonds in the rough EVERY YEAR. So how about you give us a break from your know it all jabs and just give us your views.
If Y'all don't want criticism as to one guy making sorry picks on a mock, don't publish it.
As far as "popular opinion" on Vaccaro, I see the opinions on him all over the place, and most just tour his hitting ability, not his COVERAGE ability, which is weak. Just watch his videos !! See for YOURSELF, sure one team might love him and take him too early, like TB did with Barron, who has strugled in coverage as a STRONG safety.
Moore, NO ONE has high up anymore because his 3-4 value went down the tubes when he ran so poorly, and his 4-3 value went down when he lifted so poorly.
If you look at surprises in round one the last 10 years, they are ALWAYS guys who wowed them in workouts, who ran FAST times. When you look at name guys who go round two, especially at DB, they are guys who were limited physically in some ways, decent prospects with great college careers, but just not up to snuff physically to be a first round pick.
Round two. he's a solid pick, just like Laurinaitis, and Jairus Byrd were. Too many guys WITH top measurables and production ahead of this guy.
As I said, all it takes is ONE team... I HOPE he goes 17th or 18th, so the Rams get a better player at 22.
I just know NFL GMs and coaches, and study the draft like no one every single year. In 10 years no DB who runs over 4.6 at ANY size has gone in round one, NOT ONE.
I just think 43 years as a rabid draftnik, and 17 covering the draft and the Rams, starting as the very first St Louis Internet media person with cr edentials in 1996, and thousands of hours of research, and past experience asking questions of some of the best GMs and coaches ever counts for SOMETHING.
Call me arrogant or opinionated, but It isn't based on hype, or what the wave of opinion is on a player, wher one guy likes a guy and twenty use that to tour him themselves.
You can use my experience for your scouting experience, or not, but I would, if I wanted to get close to the truth. and past the PR hype big football school guys invariably get. When you see the workouts, player against player, all that hype gets exposed.
on't you remember Matt Leinart, Jimmy Claussen, Reggie Bush, Roy Williams, Golden Tate, etc etc?
Some schools, like Texas, USC, and Notre Dame, always have their players overrated going into the draft.
Just look at the history of high picks from those schools abd you will see what I mean.
Those who command respect, need never demand respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Waller
Think about it.
Keenan Allen is a huge key to this first round, as are the QBs. The rest is already pretty set, who has risen and who has fallen. If Allen looks great, it's more likley Austin or Patterson drops to #22, whre the Rams SHOULD add a WR, after adding Warmack, Ogletree, Cooper, Richardson, Rhodes, or Jones at 16.
Round two I look safety, Defensive tackle, linebacker, or cornerback, even WR, whichever provides best player, and the same round three, then RB, WR, C and whatever we haven't got yet the rest of the draft, except DE, and TE, but maybe a QB very late .
I also am fully aware of Moore's measurables from the combine and pro day, and when I wrote "redeemed himself a bit" I meant a marginal improvement. Pardon me if that was unclear.
To me, the pick was between Moore and Tavon Austin, and ultimately I went with the defensive pick, with Harrison just having been released. It's of my opinion that the Steelers are a front office that doesn't get too pulled into combine and pro day numbers, one way or the other. I find it interesting that a player like Moore was pegged as a top 5 pick for most of the year, when teams could easily see how fast he played, and his abilities in general. Nobody had a problem with that.
I'm also very aware of Moore's position in most mock drafts, and I'm not relying on "January scouting reports". I knew this and still chose this pick that I knew to be an unusual one, because it made sense to me with the way the players fell to the Steelers, and evaluating their biggest needs. To me, Tavon Austin doesn't remind me of Steelers football.
Reading this bit leads me to believe you're on equal footing with all of us. It's a bit presumptuous to think that no one watches these same popular television shows. To imply you're somehow more informed than others while listing cable TV shows as the source of that is a tad strange to me. And from what I can gather about those shows in particular, is that they're of a lower quality than other sources out there, but I digress.
I also find it interesting that Moore pick is not a good one because he "rated about 40 in most rankings" yet the Vaccaro pick is terrible to you. If we're going by that measurement, then the Vaccaro pick is spot on.
Ultimately everyone is guessing here, including yourself. Nobody has the magic touch to make pinpoint predictions, and the reality of this is that everyone's mock draft ends up about as accurate as their NCAA tournament bracket after it's all said and done.
<<I also find it interesting that Moore pick is not a good one because he "rated about 40 in most rankings" yet the Vaccaro pick is terrible to you. If we're going by that measurement, then the Vaccaro pick is spot on.>>
Nope same thing, BOTH lack the measurables of a first rounder. It's very simple really, and if you study 20 years or more of round one picks, you will see it time and time again.
Vaccaro is getting so much HYPE out of Texas, people think you can ignore the OBVIOUS negatives he has.
By draft day, Vaccaro, if he runs bad again at his pro day. will be a second rounder on most rankings, as others move ahead of him with GOOD workouts.
You cannot draft basedjust on college tackle stats, and a few big hits in the box, when a FREE safety is what is needed, one that can COVER and get interceptions, a guy with great range.
That ain't Vaccaro.
Again, find me ONE 6 ft 213 pound sized DB who ran over 4.6 that has been drafted in round one in TEN YEARS.
I did the research, and couldn't even find any at 4.55. Almost all the DBs taken in round one since 2003 have run 4.4 or UNDER, and the "slower ones' were all 6-2 or so and heavier than the pumped up Vaccaro.
Vaccaro is no better than T.J. McDonald, a "Box" safety downgraded for his lack of speed and coverage skills . McDonald out ran. out jumped Vaccaro at the combine , and he is 6-3 !! His careeris full of highlights and big hits.i
So why does one guy, MORE heralded during his career at USC, with great DNA, and great stats, in a better league, better competition than Texas, get moved to round three even , while Vaccaro stays right where he was before it was discovered he has slow LB speed.
Plus how many Hispanic DBs are there in the NFL, EVER?? Adam Archuleta may be the ONLY one.
McDonald made all kinds of All-American teams, was well known as a JUNIOR.
So WHY wasn't Vaccaro NOTICED long before the end of his last season, and RECOGNIZED for his play nationally? All he made in 2011 was all conference, nothing nationally.
Was he some secret??? AT TEXAS????
McDonald accolades : He was one of 15 semifinalists for the 2011 Thorpe Award and one of 20 quarterfinalists for the Lott IMPACT Trophy. He made the 2011 Sporting News and Pro Football Weekly All-American first team (joining his father, Tim, as the first father-son All-American first teamers in USC history), the SI.com All-American second team and the Phil Steele All-American third team.He made the 2011 All-Pac-12 first team. He made the 2011 ESPN.com, CBSSports.com, CollegeFootballNews.com and Phil Steele All-Pac-12 first team. He won USC's 2011 Defensive Perimeter Player of the Year Award. He was a USC captain (joining his father, Tim, as the first father-son captains in Trojan history).
You're out of your skull & need to relax. First, you criticize our picks for zero reason and try to belittle us like we have zero idea what we are talking about. Which, by the way, just because you are a paid writer doesn't mean you know anymore than we do. Some people choose to be writers, others other professions and congratulations to you for being the first internet Rams person. Truly. The criticism I can take. But to make an ignorant statement in your rant above is what really irritates me. It doesn't matter if there wasn't another "hispanic" safety in the NFL for the rest of the years of its existence, why reference it? To judge Vaccaros skill set off the fact that their are no hispanic safeties is laughable and as said above ignorant.
Check your ego at the door buddy. We got lawyers, doctors, etc. on this site. No one flexes their muscle and brags about their profession like you have.
I post on this site to have friendly interactions with other like-minded Rams fans because I live in Jersey and I am a fish out of water as they say. You may consider moving on to the STLToday message boards. You'd fit in wonderfully.
Hahah you are coming off with a huge ego. Chill man..treat others the way you want to be treated. Anyway, now I'm interested at this McDonald guy at safety. Time to do some research, wonder if he would be a great starter on the rams. With a 2nd round pick.
There is already a thread on this forum to debate Kenny Vaccaro and his status as a first round prospect. This thread does not need to be derailed with a repetitive discussion.
Just to try and steer the discussion back on course, I really like the Fluker pick for the Lions. Some would say it's unlikely for a team to go with the same position back to back, but I think it makes sense for Detroit and we've seen other teams do it before so it's not unrealistic. Fisher starts on the left side, and either Riley Reiff or Fluker start at right tackle while the other shifts inside to guard. That would be a pretty good new look Lions offensive line.
Now I do love a solid offensive line, but I don't think the pick improves the Lions all that much this year or in the next few years.