View Poll Results: Agree or Disagree with Crabtree

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  • Agree

    33 43.42%
  • Disagree

    43 56.58%
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  1. #16
    Ramblin` Ram's Avatar
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    i love my linemen ( O & D) but apart from Andre Smith playing at OG or RT..i have serious doubts over all of them being 2nd overall quality.
    it just seems like the WR class last year..deep with talented prospects but who is the better option is anyones guess...id be far happier goin either Gross or 2nd round and pick one of the 3 players whom i have more faith in not being a bust..e.g. Crabtree,Curry & Jenkins at 2nd overall.

    people bring up the Calvin Johnson example in Detroit but even with a bad O he has managed respectable stats,did it help the lions this year? no

    will he help them win games in the future? hell yes.

    we not drafting for next year alone...when a prospect of the likes of Crabtree comes along,we`d be foolish not to pick him!
    if we do and some other team who has fallen in love with him want to make a crazy trade for him then listen to offers and perhaps take those extra picks or whatever....if we dont then we get to keep IMO the best prospect in this years draft.


  2. #17
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    Just ponder this...would you rather have:
    QB: Bulger
    RB: Jackson
    WR: Crabtree
    WR: Holt
    WR: Avery
    LT: Pace
    LG: Bell
    C: Brett Romberg or draft pick
    RG: Richie Incognito or draft pick
    RT: Alex Barron(WHO STILL HAS TONS OF UNSEEN POTENTIAL!)

    or

    QB: BULGER
    RB: JACKSON
    WR: HOLT
    WR: AVERY
    WR: LOOKER
    LT: PACE
    LG: BELL
    C: ROMBERG OR DRAFT PICK
    RG: INCOGNITO OR DRAFT PICK
    RT: Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe, or Michael Oher

    The bottomline is this...
    we would be crazy to pass up the BPA in Crabtree, to take an unproven rookie TACKLE, when we already have Alex Barron who we took in the first round back in 05!! Given, Pace is getting old and will retire soon, but why not take his replacement next year in the first round when their is no superstar like Crabtree, and a OT in the mid first(fingers crossed on a good year) will be possible as good as a #2 overall OT this year...

    Barron supposedly had a "boatload" of potential...so why give up on him to start a new rookie, when we can take a Fitz esque WR...

    I will agree with whatever BD does, but i think this post may sway a few anti-Crabtree people, over to the pro-crabtree side.

  3. #18
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    Quote Originally Posted by THOLTFAN81 View Post

    I will agree with whatever BD does, but i think this post may sway a few anti-Crabtree people, over to the pro-crabtree side.
    Sadly, It didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by THOLTFAN81
    we would be crazy to pass up the BPA in Crabtree, to take an unproven rookie TACKLE, when we already have Alex Barron who we took in the first round back in 05!!
    Barron has been nothing short of amazingly, supremely, ridiculously disappointing. All of this untapped talent is yet to come to the fore in four pro seasons and I don't forsee any magic keys to the castle.

    Quote Originally Posted by THOLTFAN81
    Given, Pace is getting old and will retire soon, but why not take his replacement next year in the first round when their is no superstar like Crabtree, and a OT in the mid first(fingers crossed on a good year) will be possible as good as a #2 overall OT this year...
    I think the problem with your argument lies right there in "fingers crossed". Football is much more a game of strategy and personnel than it is luck. Sure, we all hope for a good next year, but good next year(s) only come around because of solidity in drafting and free agency. Football games are won and lost in the trenches, and what better proof than the last three Ram seasons, wherein a porous OL has been integral in preventing us from reaching an above .500 record. What's more, we've only managed to rack up two wins against franchises with winning records in this period.

    Bulger has not been able to throw and we have not been able to run consistently. This admittedly is also due to injuries, but the fact remains that the Rams OL has not played good football the last three seasons and the Rams record is conducive to this. It doesn't matter who we're starting at WR, the Rams will not be successful unless the OL can establish a semblance of consistency.

    The fastest way to do this is by taking the best Lineman available. This is considered a deep draft class for OT prospects suggesting that picking at number two offers us the ability to select the best of a draft class considered the best. The best of a good class, and I can't emphasize enough how important that factor should be in making your decision. We're not comparing D'Brickshaw Ferguson to Winston Justice as we were a few years ago. We're comparing apples to apples. Four of them. And they are in direct competition with each other. So whoever looks 'bad' for such and such a reason probably only looks bad in comparison to player "X" who is equally as good a prospect but with different strengths and weaknesses.

    Due to this depth, there may indeed be a host of talent available later in round one. However, history has shown us time and time again that teams drafting at the back of round one lean toward the OL. That may seem like a blanket statement but there are finite examples every year of good teams doing what good teams do. Building depth where it counts.

    In last year's draft, for example, there were 8 OT's taken inside the first 26 picks. In the second round? None to speak of. The next one was Chad Reinhart, to Washington, a compensatory pick at the bottom of round three, pick 96. There were 70 picks elapsed between OT's. He did not see the field all season. Our own John Greco, a guard at the top of round 3, spent an entire year learning the ropes. For an OL as prone to injury as ours, you'd want to hope that whoever we pick will be ready to see the field. Selecting, even, with the third pick in round 2 may not afford us the opportunity to select a player who can start.

    Even if we sign a 'name' free agent at OT, like (though it's a pipe dream) Carolina's Jordan Gross, i'd still be an advocate of a Tackle at the top of the first round. Pace is older, slower and injured. Despite the 'boatload' of potential you speak of, Barron has been nothing to write home about. He'd be ideal as a 3rd tackle for this season due to his experience, but I can't see a future for him in horns unless he can overcome his general inability to count past two.

    Quote Originally Posted by THOLTFAN81
    Barron supposedly had a "boatload" of potential...so why give up on him to start a new rookie, when we can take a Fitz esque WR...
    You refer to OT's as 'unproven' and make Crabtree out as a 'sure bet', yet there is no present factual or historical evidence upon which we can base these claims. If Crabtree is to become "Fitz esque", then you can safely expect similar rookie numbers and a similar overall impact, yes?

    Larry Fitzgerald's 2004 rookie campaign:

    58 REC, 780yds, 8TD's.

    Arizona Cardinals record for the 2004 season: 6-10.

    Good numbers for a rookie on a team that took another four years to reach the playoffs.

    Fun Fact: In these four years, the Cardinals have drafted four of their five starting linemen. Two in the first two rounds. The other, Mike Gandy was a touted Free Agent.
    Last edited by Bar-bq; -01-29-2009 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Addition By Subtraction

  4. #19
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    I'm starting to lean more towards Jeremy Maclin than Michael Crabtree. Not only can Maclin stretch the field as a WR, but his special teams skills are maybe the best coming out of college this year. Maclin has more speed than Crabtree does.

  5. #20
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    WR at 1.2 is a bad idea I think.... I do like the look of Percy Harvin though, but I can't see any way we'd get him, or how he would benefit us. He's small and fast, like Avery, so the two wouldn't really make a great tandem IMO. Also, I think he's a 10-20 pick and unless we are trading down (too much to go up, and why would we go up for him!?) we won't get a sniff...

  6. #21
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    Theres no surefire #1 offensive tackle. Crabtree is a guranteed top pick. I gurantee that if Detroit didn't waste those picks on Rogers and Williams they would difinitely take Crabtree to go along with Johnson. Smith has character probs. Oher showed his true colors in the Senior bowl. Smith is inconsistent. Let's draft Crabtree and address the O-Line position later in the draft. Check out my mock draft.

  7. #22
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    Quote Originally Posted by bud_5403 View Post
    Theres no surefire #1 offensive tackle.
    This is, it appears, a bumper year for top-end OT's. There are four of them, all four may end up in the top 10. Therefore, the reason that there is no bona fide, breakaway candidate is because they all have shortcomings in comparison to one another. Each prospect is better than his competitors at something, and it becomes easy to go "oh, look at (for example) Andre Smith, he's nowhere near as solid a pass blocker as (for example) Eugene Monroe". As a result, the compared players get overlooked as the perception is created that 'there is no true number one'.

    I like to think that is not that there are no "number one" candidates at OT, but rather, that there are four of them. Of them all, I think Eugene Monroe is the most NFL ready and the most consistent and he's who I'd like.

    Quote Originally Posted by bud
    Crabtree is a guranteed top pick. I gurantee that if Detroit didn't waste those picks on Rogers and Williams they would difinitely take Crabtree to go along with Johnson.
    Wait, run this by me again?

    You're throwing Crabtree up as a "guaranteed" top project and using the winless Detroit Lions and their former "guaranteed top pick" tandem of Wideouts as your example? The only reason the Lions are in a position to even think about Crabtree is because they do not have an Offensive Line to speak of. Calvin Johnson was great this year. The Lions did not win a game.

    I don't see how you can possibly rework the equation with that kind of aphorism.

    Quote Originally Posted by bud
    Check out my mock draft.
    I can't find it.

  8. #23
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    No way !!! How did that work out for the lions ? Go defense if there is no elite OT. Devany should try his hardest to trade down ( probably not gonna happen ) get two 1st round picks for next year

  9. #24
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I'm starting to lean more towards Jeremy Maclin than Michael Crabtree. Not only can Maclin stretch the field as a WR, but his special teams skills are maybe the best coming out of college this year. Maclin has more speed than Crabtree does.
    Well .. Billy D. said he wants to get bigger on both sides of the ball, and Crabtree is BIGGER than J. Maclin .. so there!

  10. #25
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    Luxury pick. I'm not saying it wouldn't work out, but I'd rate OT, MLB, SS, and DT as higher round one priorities. Depending on who is likely to be available at what point, I might very well be inclined to trade down because we have a lot of problem areas to address.

  11. #26
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    Well .. Billy D. said he wants to get bigger on both sides of the ball, and Crabtree is BIGGER than J. Maclin .. so there!
    Wow, when Maui starts busting on me guess I need to pull out the ole "Warner is a freaking God who can do anything he wants" card because I have really p i s s e d off some folks.

    Took me longer than I thought it would.


  12. #27
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    I'm not entirely for drafting a WR, but if BD decides Crabtree is the best player available, then by all means we should grab him.

  13. #28
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    For me, I believe we should go for whoever Devaney believes is the best player available. I feel that people are picking a position and then trying to fill it. Surely a team that had just two wins has many, many needs.
    If one of the tackles is BPA then that suits me fine and yes, I think we'd all agree that that is one of our greatest needs.
    Looking at the other players mentioned as probable top ten picks, Curry would help
    the defense immediately and I think that Draft would be fine at MLB with Witherspoon and Curry alongside him. Pisa would be excellent depth or traded.
    Malcolm Jenkins is another top rated prospect and apart from Bartell our CB's don't inspire me. Brown is average and I still think could get himself a years ban at any time. Hill is now in need of a Spag regeneration and King is going to still basically be a rookie this year.
    Crabtree falls into the same category. If after all the film, interviews, tests and track performances it is decided that he is the best and most likely prospect to become a pro bowl player then we should take him. Holt may be gone, Bennett is Bennett, Looker is a journeyman and whilst there's more to come from Burton, so far I think it's more potential than production from him. So wide receiver IS a need position.

    So let's forget the history of "we rebuilt with a LT last time". Each year is different and so let's take the best opportunity of drafting a pro bowler - whoever it is!

  14. #29
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    Look, I don't have a problem with Crabtree if we address some major issues in free agency first. It's that simple. He's definitely a stud WR, and it'd be great to have him, but if we don't acquire the right FA's, I don't see the point. He becomes a priority only if free agency makes him one.


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

  15. #30
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    Re: With the 2nd pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the St. Louis Rams Select...MICHAEL CRABT

    I think the problem with your argument lies right there in "fingers crossed". Football is much more a game of strategy and personnel than it is luck. Sure, we all hope for a good next year, but good next year(s) only come around because of solidity in drafting and free agency. Football games are won and lost in the trenches, and what better proof than the last three Ram seasons, wherein a porous OL has been integral in preventing us from reaching an above .500 record. What's more, we've only managed to rack up two wins against franchises with winning records in this period.

    Bulger has not been able to throw and we have not been able to run consistently. This admittedly is also due to injuries, but the fact remains that the Rams OL has not played good football the last three seasons and the Rams record is conducive to this. It doesn't matter who we're starting at WR, the Rams will not be successful unless the OL can establish a semblance of consistency.

    The fastest way to do this is by taking the best Lineman available. This is considered a deep draft class for OT prospects suggesting that picking at number two offers us the ability to select the best of a draft class considered the best. The best of a good class, and I can't emphasize enough how important that factor should be in making your decision. We're not comparing D'Brickshaw Ferguson to Winston Justice as we were a few years ago. We're comparing apples to apples. Four of them. And they are in direct competition with each other. So whoever looks 'bad' for such and such a reason probably only looks bad in comparison to player "X" who is equally as good a prospect but with different strengths and weaknesses.

    Due to this depth, there may indeed be a host of talent available later in round one. However, history has shown us time and time again that teams drafting at the back of round one lean toward the OL. That may seem like a blanket statement but there are finite examples every year of good teams doing what good teams do. Building depth where it counts.

    In last year's draft, for example, there were 8 OT's taken inside the first 26 picks. In the second round? None to speak of. The next one was Chad Reinhart, to Washington, a compensatory pick at the bottom of round three, pick 96. There were 70 picks elapsed between OT's. He did not see the field all season. Our own John Greco, a guard at the top of round 3, spent an entire year learning the ropes. For an OL as prone to injury as ours, you'd want to hope that whoever we pick will be ready to see the field. Selecting, even, with the third pick in round 2 may not afford us the opportunity to select a player who can start.

    Even if we sign a 'name' free agent at OT, like (though it's a pipe dream) Carolina's Jordan Gross, i'd still be an advocate of a Tackle at the top of the first round. Pace is older, slower and injured. Despite the 'boatload' of potential you speak of, Barron has been nothing to write home about. He'd be ideal as a 3rd tackle for this season due to his experience, but I can't see a future for him in horns unless he can overcome his general inability to count past two.




    I say this is a bunch of bull........

    If building a quality offensive line is based on taking the best talent available in the draft then Barron should have made a difference and I do believe the guy is not as bad as most percieve. He does have some flaws with the right coaching can be turned around.

    My point is now that I have rambled on is building a Defensive Line is very similar to building an offensive line.... That being said your philosophy would mean the Rams Defensive LIne would be the best in the buzz. This is not the case because when drafting it does take educated guesses and luck.

    If you give me a choice of drafting an offensive lineman resulting in the Rams playing quality football for the next several years with an early exit in the playoffs versus no playoff appearance in 4 years and then a chance of winning it all I say give me CRABTREE I will endure 4 more years of subpar football.
    Last edited by Dominating D; -01-31-2009 at 01:06 PM.

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