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  1. #1
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    Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    The dude just keeps messing up and now he's leaving the combine. Hmm....

    I see it going down to Jason Smith OT, Michael Oher OT, Aaron Curry LB, and Eugene Monroe OT as the #2 pick in the draft.

    Am I wrong?



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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    I was just about to mention Andre Smith in a different thread when I saw this.

    Yes I agree, that he should most definitely be off the radar, unless we get a chance in the third round...

    And he didn't exactly "Leave" the Combine, he straight up disappeared. This guy is baggage, and not at a skill position where it warrants the risk.

    He gets kicked off the college team, works with an agent prematurely, and then, disappears when given the opportunity to show off anything resembling dominance at the Combine.

    Not showing up shows me a few things,

    1) He said he did not start preparing early enough for the Combine. This just shows a lack of work discipline or focus, and that is something I do not want.

    2) He was overweight to begin with, but I forgave him because of his production at the college level. In the NFL though, that would probably have gotten him beat up and worked over by a skilled d-lineman.

    3) He either isn't as good as we thought he was, or... and this might just be a little out there,

    He might miss his Mommy.

  3. #3
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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    I also saw this on my yahoo homepage. And I would also say it comes down to the ones you listed. Out of those 4, the 2 that I like are Arron Curry because of his size and speed. And Eugene Monroe, but if we don't get him I would be fine with Jason Smith I guess.

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    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    To me, monroe and oher would both be significant reaches' just for need and i think that would be a tragic error. We cant afford to mess this pick up, we have too many holes. If curry grades higher, that is our guy from my perspective.

    rammming speed to all

    general counsel


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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    To me, monroe and oher would both be significant reaches' just for need
    Oher, yes. Monroe? Not sure I see how he's a reach at this point. He's competing with Jason Smith to be the top tackle in this draft, and both are possibilities for Detroit ahead of us if they aren't sold on a QB.

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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    I have a feeling that Monroe will be the pick. Smith is screwing up big time. He may not even be a top five pick...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Devaney, if you care about this team... fire the offensive coordinator!!!!

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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    To me, monroe and oher would both be significant reaches' just for need and i think that would be a tragic error. We cant afford to mess this pick up, we have too many holes. If curry grades higher, that is our guy from my perspective.

    rammming speed to all

    general counsel
    Agreed GC Im leaning in that direction.
    :ramlogo:

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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    Whether he is the top tackle in the draft is not the point at all. Robert Gallery was the top tackle in the draft as well. IF the top tackle in the draft grades out like a joe thomas or an orlando pace, then of course thats what we need. What we dont need to do, based on our glaring need at OT, is to take the top rated OT in THIS draft, just because he is the best guy available at that position, ahead of a guy at another position that we clearly need (linebacker) who is a higher rated guy overall and a guy with a higher liklihood of performance and a lower bust value.

    I am fine with The kid from Baylor or Monroe if spags and billy d think one of them is a top notch guy and better than curry. I am not fine with it if we are taking them just because they are the best currently available at that position.

    What detroit may or not do is not only pure speculation, its also irrelevant. Part of what detroit may or may not do is a function of what they think of stafford given that they dont have anyone on their roster remotely as good as bulger.

    Personally, i dont really have a problem taking stafford, who i love, if detroit passes, which i am quite sure that they wont, if spags and billy think he is the long term answer and a franchise guy at qb. I saw stafford play a ton of times at georgia over the last three years and he has played behind terrible offensive lines without a single quality reciever until last year (where he had one really good guy). He has a great arm and great pocket presence but i defer to billy d and spags as to whether they think he is a true franchise qb.

    The draft drives me crazy because its the ultimate amatuer hour with fans. People truly have no clue what they are talking about (me included). This takes hundreds of hours of film analysis and there is just no way that anyone on this board has the kind of knowledge truly required to make the best picks for the rams. I think nick is briliant at this, but for the most part, we have a lot of people on this board that truly believe that they have a level of expertise that allows them to know as much as the professionals just because they see a guy play a few times, watch some highlights, or listen to kiper or maycock tell people who is moving up and down, a lot of which is pure crap based on misinformation put out by the teams.

    There is no business that i have ever heard of in this world where management releases proprietary info to the public and the competition.

    Ramming speed to all

    general counsel


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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    Curry would be my choice. Hes the real deal at LB. Lots of good tackles in the draft.

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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    NFL network says that Curry is the "safest pick" in the draft. With the way the Rams have drafted in the past...I'm fine with the safest pick.

    There will be an OT available in the 2nd round.

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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    I am fine with The kid from Baylor or Monroe if spags and billy d think one of them is a top notch guy and better than curry. I am not fine with it if we are taking them just because they are the best currently available at that position.
    I agree completely. The Rams are in a great position to take the best player available and fill a significant need in the process. I've said numerous times before that I could get behind a tackle, a linebacker, a cornerback, or a receiver with that pick. But I'm approaching it from the perspective of thinking both Smith and Monroe are worth being picked at that slot. You're the one who called Monroe a significant reach, and I was hoping you'd elaborate on why. My own personal belief is that he's not a reach there, and the only reason I brought up Detroit was to illustrate that I don't think he's in the conversation for their pick at all if he wasn't viewed by at least some others as being one of the draft's best prospects.

    I suspect that if the Rams grade Curry as being significantly better than either of the tackles, they'll take him. But if it's close, I think they take the lineman. I think it's easier for teams to give nearly $30 million guaranteed to a franchise left tackle because I just don't think they value a linebacker at the same level as they do a blind-side tackle, quarterback, defensive end, or corner. Look at the Ravens. They have arguably one of the best linebackers in the league in Ray Lewis, and they instead elected to use their franchise tag on a pass rusher who didn't get into the double digits in sacks this season. It's just hard to justify putting those kinds of resources into a linebacker; so if the grades are close, I think OT gets the pick. If the grades aren't close and Curry is far and away the better prospect, the Rams may bite the financial bullet and take him.
    Last edited by Nick; -02-23-2009 at 03:56 AM.

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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    The reason i call monroe a reach is because i have yet to hear a single person compare him to a franchise tackle (ie a pace or a joe thomas). I am not suggesting that he is that much of a reach relative to the other players available in the draft. I am sure he is a legit top 10 pick or so and within that group, its probably a matter of personal preference as anything else. Curry has been labeled as close to a cant miss prospect as there is in the draft by almost every expert i have read and maycock, who i respect the most of any of the experts, has him as the best available player of everyone regardless of position. Thats my thought on monroe as a reach- i fear he is rated as highly as he is because he is one of the two top offensive tackles in the class rather than that he is a franchise caliber left tackle.

    Meanwhile, i am going to cry if we cut The Big Man, which would only be a slight inch below my feelings when we cut bruce because again, from a cost vs production standpoint, i just dont see the savings, whereas with holt, i see the savings very clearly. I am the one that said a year ago that the difference between bruce and holt was nowhere near what people made it out to be and i believe that a year later, that was a correct statement. Cutting pace and replacing him with a rookie is not going to make us a better team.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  13. #13
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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    The reason i call monroe a reach is because i have yet to hear a single person compare him to a franchise tackle (ie a pace or a joe thomas).
    Well, I don't agree with calling a guy a reach simply because you haven't yet heard someone compare him to a Pace or a Thomas yet. I've heard many people refer to Monroe as a potential franchise-caliber tackle, myself being one of them. NFL Draft Scout, a site that supplies player information and analysis to NFL.com and CBS Sports for their draft profiles, compares Monroe to Walter Jones.

    It's interesting that you'd list Joe Thomas as one of the guys an offensive tackle would have to be compared to in order to be taken with our pick, since even Thomas wasn't taken in the top two of his draft class. More recently, Jake Long certainly didn't compare to Orlando Pace last year, but he went first overall to Miami and very well could have gone second overall to the Rams had he been on the board.

    It seems to me like you're applying a somewhat n unrealistic standard to the offensive tackle prospects. When you made the argument for Curry, you based it on taking him because he's the highest rated guy. You don't want to see the team reach for a lesser rated player, and I understand that. Yet when it comes to the offensive tackles, not only do they have to be the top rated guy, but they also have to be compared at some point to a guy like Pace? That seems to be your position, but you can correct me if I'm wrong.

    This is one of the reasons I have a big problem with passing on a guy because he doesn't compare well enough to an elite player of the past. It's just not that practical, IMO.

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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    I dont think you are getting my point nick. My point is that curry is considered from what i have read a top notch pro bowl caliber linebacker, with a much higher degree of probablity of performance and liklihood of pro bowl caliber play than any of the offensive tackles. I had not read any comparisons to walter jones. I have heard that IF, and its an IF, he reaches his potential, he could be an elite tackle, not that he appears to be ready to become one in the immediate future.

    My criteria for the rams pick is not that the guy be an orlando pace or a joe thomas. The criteria is that we take the best available guy at a position of need, that we DO NOT reach for an inferior guy to curry just because he plays offensive tackle.

    Where a guy was picked in a prior draft is not relevant because its a function of the others guys available in that draft and the needs of the teams around them. The only thing relevant to my analysis is what is available in this particular draft.

    I admit that you know 1000x more about the draft prospects than me. To repeat my earlier point, if spags and billy d think monroe is as good an offensive tackle prospect as curry is a linebacker prospect than i am fine taking the tackle. I am not fine if they take a guy they like less just because he is an offensive tackle since we have too many needs and making a mistake with this pick is going to have a disastrous impact on our team.

    ramming speed to all

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Andre Smith probably no longer on the Rams radar.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    My criteria for the rams pick is not that the guy be an orlando pace or a joe thomas.
    Except it seems to be, because your reasoning for calling Monroe a reach is because you haven't yet heard him compared to guys like that. I don't see how you can say that isn't part of your criteria when that's the reason you cited as to why you view Monroe as a significant reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    The criteria is that we take the best available guy at a position of need, that we DO NOT reach for an inferior guy to curry just because he plays offensive tackle.
    I absolutely agree, and I'd be very happy if the Rams took Curry on the basis of him being the best available player. I love the guy as a prospect. But let's be honest, no one's voted him into the Pro Bowl just yet. He has to realize his potential at the next level in order to attain that success, just like every other prospect has to. My point, though, was that I don't agree that comparisons to past players needs to come up in the evaluation process of prospects. Again, Jake Long was definitely not an Orlando Pace type tackle, but the Dolphins viewed him as the best player in the draft and took him. Maybe Eugene Monroe doesn't earn the comparison to Pace by Mayock, but if he's the best available player, you take him. We seem to agree there.
    Last edited by Nick; -02-23-2009 at 01:23 PM.

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