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  1. #16
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by Bar-bq View Post
    But Tackles who consistently underproduce? Who show up overweight, who don't work out at the combine, who get suspended and then suspiciously disappear?

    He reminds me a lot of Michigan DT Alan Branch, who was a projected top five pick but then fell to the top of round two. Arizona selected him and he hasn't been able to beat out Gabe Watson or Darnell Dockett for time in the rotation.
    I was thinking the exact same thing. Good Call.


  2. #17
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    Say what you want, here's what I know. For 3 years he dominated SEC talent. He's always been overweight. Hey, Pace wasn't Adonnis. He had some girth around him also. Andre Smith anchored that Alabama line this year and the one game he gets suspended for, Utah owned the Alabama O line.

    The kid can play. He's body of work on the field proves it. He may have got some bad advice recently, but Scouts don't call plays on Sunday. Players and coaches make it happen. The kid's a player.

  3. #18
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    I hear you txramsfan but performance in college is driven by a head coach that has all the power. You don't listen, you don't perform, you don't play, your career dries up and dies.

    In the pros the head coach is more like a boss. A boss that has employees making more money in a year than he will in 5. Once the pay check is cashed you constantly see a lot of players under perform until of course it's their last year in the contract.

    The reason the combine has any sway for me at all is because this the transition period between the two. How does a player handle the lack of authority in their lives. How well do they stay on track, improve, perform. Players that impress at the combine show me they can be self motivators. Players like Andre obviously are not.

    I'm not saying he won't be a great player one day I'm just saying it's more work and more risk than the Rams need this year.

  4. #19
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    Yea, Adam Archuleta who had maybe the best combine in the history of the combine really worked out well for the Rams huh?

    All I'm saying is don't throw out what someone has done on the field just because they don't have the "chemistry" that SCOUTS are looking for. I don't think Andre Smith forgot how to block so soon after his college career. Smith got suspended for talking to an agent prior to the draft. It wasn't because he got drunk, beat anyone up, sold drugs, kicked his dog, threw his cat in the river, none of that. He got duped by a used car salesman type agent who knew he was putting the kid in jeopardy but did it anyway because Smith is first round talent. You saw in the bowl game how much he meant to that O line. He's just a kid, who has major potential.
    Last edited by txramsfan; -03-12-2009 at 10:27 AM.

  5. #20
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    I have little doubt that the kid can play, but his maturity level concerns me. Once he gets paid, will he (1) stay in shape, and (2) stay out of trouble?

    I suspect that he will still go in the top half of the first round, and may prove to be a very good player. No way I'd consider him at pick #2, though. If he falls to the second round (which I doubt)... still not sure.

  6. #21
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    I don't know Av....Arch didn't have any personal problems really, neither did DLew, Jimmy Kennedy or Tye Hill for that matter. None of those panned out.

  7. #22
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I don't know Av....Arch didn't have any personal problems really, neither did DLew, Jimmy Kennedy or Tye Hill for that matter. None of those panned out.
    Arch was actually a solid player until his back injury essentially ended his career. Hill was active for what, 15 minutes, before his injury; maybe we can give him another game or two before we close the book on him. DLew was simply a poorly evaluated choice at #12, IMO.

    But Kennedy is a fine example of immaturity. He spent most of the winter as a top 5 prospect. However, he slipped to #12 because of immaturity issues. And who was right in the end? The Rams for "taking a chance" on this "steal" at #12? Or the scouts and team personnel who had concerns with his maturity?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #23
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    He just resigned with Minnesota too. Arch was never good, neither has Tye Hill been any good since he's been here. All I am saying is, if you put more emphasis on drafting a player because of his combine/post combine actions instead of play on the field, that's insane.

  9. #24
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    He just resigned with Minnesota too. Arch was never good, neither has Tye Hill been any good since he's been here. All I am saying is, if you put more emphasis on drafting a player because of his combine/post combine actions instead of play on the field, that's insane.
    Yes, there's lots of players that resign with their teams. Not many of them should have been selected with the #12 pick after being an early projection in the top 5. And you and will simply disagree on Arch. He actually was quite good until his back injury. I know the image of him dropping a pick against the Jets will forever be burned in your mind, but he has plenty of good tape besides that drop. As for Hill, let's see how he does healthy. Of course, he did make the All-Rookie team in his first year, so I don't know that he's been all bad. Don't get me wrong, he has never excited me either; but let's see how he does now.

    And, tx, you are absolutely right. The film room should play a much, that is MUCH, larger role in evaluations than Combines and Pro Days. However, ignoring issues of character and maturity or equally, if not more, insane.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  10. #25
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    Not saying ignore them, but I would be more inclined to keep interviewing the talent than to just shrug it off after an initial meeting. I'm really hoping that Andre Smith turns out to be the best O lineman in this draft after 3 years. What has this kid really done? Ok, he wasn't in shape for the combine. I understand that. That was a mistake, but was it critical? Did he get arrested? Did he beat up someone? No, he just made a bad business decision. However, it had nothing to do with pancaking a DE.

  11. #26
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    I agree the combine shouldn't out way a player's performance on the field. But I hope you would agree that performance can't stand entirely on it's own. If it did there would have been 31 teams trying to sign TO when he was let go.

    Now I'm not trying to say Smith is a head case like TO but the Rams not only need to rebuild their talent level... they need to rebuild there passion and work ethic. A new coach like Spags wants to limit the chance of bringing a bad influence in even though you are right there are no guarantees.

    A team that has an established coach and an established LT would probably be wise to take Smith. I just don't think he is worth the risk for us.

  12. #27
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    All I know is this...Nick Saban said he had no problems coaching Andre Smith and that no NFL will either. I don't really think there is that much risk. I'm not advocating taking Andre, I would be just as happy with Justin Smith, Eugene Monroe, Michael Crabtree, Aaron Curry, or Brian Orakpo. However, to dismiss the talent of Andre Smith because he talked to an agent and may have been out of shape for the combine is more of a risk than the long term benefits that a talent like his could bring.

  13. #28
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    As far as moral issues go, and i dont know how much affect this has on him, i saw him being interviewed once with his parents, and they dont look like the type of people to raise a fool. Seemed like real good folk is what im trying to say, humble people. Like i said though, i dont know how much influence that has on Andre, but as far as what it "looks" like he has been taught under they're advice i wouldnt think he would do something stupid like let his talent go to waste. At least i hope he wouldnt.

  14. #29
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by tx
    However, to dismiss the talent of Andre Smith because he talked to an agent and may have been out of shape for the combine is more of a risk than the long term benefits that a talent like his could bring.
    And that is the one and only question that matters in the case of Andre Smith...........

    ....Are his actions from the Bowl game to Pro Day indicative or an anomaly?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #30
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    Re: Another "red flag" for Andre Smith

    I think it's an anomaly. I've talked to several Alabama fans, and they said he's squeaky clean. He just screwed up before the game.

    Investigate it. You won't find much on him. Don't you think it would have come out way before the bowl game? Up until that time, and up until the combine, he was the #1 O lineman to be drafted.

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