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  1. #16
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Pike is terrible. Dont even consider taking him.


  2. #17
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r View Post
    Ok two questions real quick.

    #1 Do you think if we pick Bradford, he will be a good QB? This is Hypothetical Pike has no bearing on this question. DO you think he will be a good QB.

    #2 As seen in the quote above, I think we can both agree that bradford has those same talents(as you have stated) If they both have a similar skill set why do you think Pike will excel in the nfl, while Bradford will just be a (answer to #1) QB?

    I think bradford and pike are too similar to waste a first round pick on bradford. I would take Suh and pike over bradford and any round 2 selection.

    1. I think he will be servicable QB -- not sold on good. Bradford has injury issues(even if he checks ok). People use the arguement that he fell funny. How many times is he gonna be sacked on our not so friendly turf.

    I think Pike could also be servicable and has room to become stronger and his quick release looks most like the best NFL QB's now.

    2. I think if payton manning and say...Matt Ryan were in this years draft we would be talking that Bradford is a round 1/2 fringe QB like John Beck.


    Usually, a successful QB has to have 1 of 3 qualities to be successful.

    1. a big arm
    2. size/strenght/speed (greater than average)
    3. unbelievable accuracy with super high football IQ (smart school/football background/NFL raised from birth.


    1. guys like flacco, mcnabb, schaub, farve, stafford all have big arms

    2. big ben, J. Campbell, Vick, Young, Matt Ryan, Flacco, J.Johnson, brady, Rivers

    3. Rodgers (cal grad), Brees (purdue), Mannings (archies son), Orton (purdue), Sanchez (kinda fits with a brother that was Yale grad that played QB), pennington (rhodes scholar), Flutie (BC)

    Here you could make the arguement that Pike is big enough that he will gain an advantage in the NFL because of his size.

    You could also argue Clausen has that NFL grooming to be super-accurate in this league for his days in California.

    I don't know if Bradford is big enough, or smart enough to fit into one of these categories.

    I know that I over-simplified it for arguement sake, but thats my basic arguement.

    Bradford is a QB "tweener" that I feel is servicable and not worthly of passing Suh on especially when their is a guy available later in the draft that can be just as servicalble

  3. #18
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Yea, Pike is a 4th rounder (or later).. Guy was freakin' awful in big games, including the allstar games at the end of the year.

  4. #19
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    I think bradford and pike are too similar to waste a first round pick on bradford. I would take Suh and pike over bradford and any round 2 selection.

    1. I think he will be servicable QB -- not sold on good. Bradford has injury issues(even if he checks ok). People use the arguement that he fell funny. How many times is he gonna be sacked on our not so friendly turf.
    #1 we have new turf
    #2 Suh has had knee surgury before.
    #3 Bradfords arm was repaired by Dr. Andrews
    "[Andrews] is the alpha doc at the center of a sports-medicine network that extends well beyond doctors. Every athletic trainer, physical therapist, strength-and-conditioning coach in the land seems to have Andrews' cell phone number".
    That is from and Espn article, everyone who has their elbow or shoulder repaired by andrews says that it works better then ever.
    I think Pike could also be servicable and has room to become stronger and his quick release looks most like the best NFL QB's now.
    I would argue that Bradford also has a fast release, but that matter of opinion.
    2. I think if payton manning and say...Matt Ryan were in this years draft we would be talking that Bradford is a round 1/2 fringe QB like John Beck.
    If Peyton manning is in the draft he goes first no matter what he is a once in a lifetime talent. As for Matt Ryan, I am not so sure that him coming out of college and Bradford coming out of college wouldnt be rated that same.

    Usually, a successful QB has to have 1 of 3 qualities to be successful.

    1. a big arm
    2. size/strenght/speed (greater than average)
    3. unbelievable accuracy with super high football IQ (smart school/football background/NFL raised from birth.


    1. guys like flacco, mcnabb, schaub, farve, stafford all have big arms

    2. big ben, J. Campbell, Vick, Young, Matt Ryan, Flacco, J.Johnson, brady, Rivers

    3. Rodgers (cal grad), Brees (purdue), Mannings (archies son), Orton (purdue), Sanchez (kinda fits with a brother that was Yale grad that played QB), pennington (rhodes scholar), Flutie (BC)
    #1 No brad ford doesnt have a huge arm
    #2 Bradford has shown at the combine that he is putting on more weight in muscle, lets save that size argument until his pro day. I bet he has gotten bigger by then
    #3 I dont think anyone can argue about how accurate Bradford is, I would also say he has very good football smarts, always makes good decisions and knows when and were to throw.
    Here you could make the arguement that Pike is big enough that he will gain an advantage in the NFL because of his size.
    Jemarcuss Russel is also a big body
    You could also argue Clausen has that NFL grooming to be super-accurate in this league for his days in California.
    Clausen doesnt fall into any of your categories either, as he IMO has a sub par amount of Football Intelligence
    I don't know if Bradford is big enough, or smart enough to fit into one of these categories.

    I know that I over-simplified it for arguement sake, but thats my basic arguement.

    Bradford is a QB "tweener" that I feel is servicable and not worthly of passing Suh on especially when their is a guy available later in the draft that can be just as servicalble
    Cool, I respect your opinion but there is my take on the subject. Come draft day we will see who we take.

  5. #20
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    THANKS GOOD TALKING ABOUT THE SUBJECT GUYS, I ENJOY IT WHEN PEOPLE MAKE GOOD POINTS.


    The one thing that leaps out at me is that bradford put on all these pounds of muslce all while having a surgically repaired shoulder.

    thats just not possible.

    I have had tommy john, ACL, and ankle surgery while I was a college athlete and I can assure you that you cannot workout at a high level that can build muscle.

    You may rehab and if anything but on some fat, but your body can't handle surgery and a healing arm and also build muslce tissue at that rate post-surgery.

    I look forward to having a new QB other than AJ Feeley,

    I am sure that is something we can all agree on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #21
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Out of these three things:

    1. a big arm
    2. size/strenght/speed (greater than average)
    3. unbelievable accuracy .

    #3 is a requirement for elite status. You will not be a premier NFL quarterback if you can't hit receivers in stride on the correct shoulder. Size and a big arm are nice but it's impossible to make it work if that's all you have. The NFL is littered with NFL prospects who have the correct size and a cannon for an arm and have failed misserably because they couldn't deliever the ball accurately. JaMarcus Russell is a perfect example.

    Chad Pennington is one of the most accurate QBs in the league but his arm is a negative. Pike has the same problem. The reports from the Combine were that his passes died at 10 yards. One of them I read said that he was the only QB to throw into a headwind (in a dome).

    As was said, Clausen's problem is that he doesn't make the right decisions on / off the field. Is he the next Jeff George? Jeff George had everything required except the brain.

  7. #22
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Out of these three things:

    The reports from the Combine were that his passes died at 10 yards. One of them I read said that he was the only QB to throw into a headwind (in a dome).

    As was said, Clausen's problem is that he doesn't make the right decisions on / off the field. Is he the next Jeff George? Jeff George had everything required except the brain.

    1. Did you watch the combine at all ? -- Pike threw good.

    2. George had a cannon arm, you can't compare Clausen to George., totally different.

  8. #23
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    1. Did you watch the combine at all ? -- Pike threw good.

    2. George had a cannon arm, you can't compare Clausen to George., totally different.
    From his hometown newspaper:

    03/01/2010 - It wasn't the breakthrough workout that former University of Cincinnati standouts Tony Pike and Mardy Gilyard hoped for when they worked out for scouts and coaches at the NFL Scouting Combine on Sunday. Pike, who was rated in the top six quarterbacks going into the weekend, had a chance to answer questions about his inconsistency. But he did little to alleviate those concerns. Although Pike was strong on slant routes, 15-yard out patterns and long balls to his left, he struggled on comeback patterns and throws outside the numbers to his right. After going 2-of-4 on the comeback drills, Pike looked dejected as he walked back to where the other quarterbacks were standing. But overall, his footwork and delivery of the ball were good. The one quarterback who might have surpassed Pike though was Oklahoma State's Zac Robinson, who excelled on comeback routes. Robinson, who has a more compact delivery than Pike, also surprised some with his footwork and balance dropping back, which was a concern since he played a spread offense in college. He also was accurate on deep balls. "You have to be careful here because it's a difficult environment to throw," said NFL Network's Michael Lombardi about Pike. "I think Tony Pike is going to have to go back to the tape. Certainly when he gets with coaches he's going to be a guy who takes some time to develop." - Joe Reedy, The Cincinnati Enquirer

  9. #24
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    From his hometown newspaper:

    03/01/2010 - It wasn't the breakthrough workout that former University of Cincinnati standouts Tony Pike and Mardy Gilyard hoped for when they worked out for scouts and coaches at the NFL Scouting Combine on Sunday. Pike, who was rated in the top six quarterbacks going into the weekend, had a chance to answer questions about his inconsistency. But he did little to alleviate those concerns. Although Pike was strong on slant routes, 15-yard out patterns and long balls to his left, he struggled on comeback patterns and throws outside the numbers to his right. After going 2-of-4 on the comeback drills, Pike looked dejected as he walked back to where the other quarterbacks were standing. But overall, his footwork and delivery of the ball were good. The one quarterback who might have surpassed Pike though was Oklahoma State's Zac Robinson, who excelled on comeback routes. Robinson, who has a more compact delivery than Pike, also surprised some with his footwork and balance dropping back, which was a concern since he played a spread offense in college. He also was accurate on deep balls. "You have to be careful here because it's a difficult environment to throw," said NFL Network's Michael Lombardi about Pike. "I think Tony Pike is going to have to go back to the tape. Certainly when he gets with coaches he's going to be a guy who takes some time to develop." - Joe Reedy, The Cincinnati Enquirer

    again ., you didn't watch the combine...

    He showed he was the most talented there. i can help you if you only listen to the media and don't watch and draw your own inferences.

    I think thats why my comments seem different, because I just don't listen to writers and ESPN.

    I don't care if you disagree just watch and infer.

    U wouldn't comment on how good a book compares to another if you only read 2 chapters.

  10. #25
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    Emotions don't provide reasons why you think Bradford is better.

    I don't understand your hate for Pike, so I ask if you could analyze why Bradford is so much better.

    I think through analysis you will see they are much more similar and Pike may even half a great upside.
    Here are my concerns for Pike in order from greatest to least:

    1) Has not demonstrated he is capable of being a team leader. If he couldn't be one in college, he's not gonna be one in the pros. This cannot be taught.
    2) Raw footwork and very inconsistent technique. Very inconsistent.
    3) He is simply not impressive. Where's his warrior spirit? Heart? Swagger? A QB needs to have the drive to win. Pike seems to be an introvert like Bulger.
    4) Durability is a major concern, and why isn't he training to put on more weight? Is this a reflection of his work ethic? Everybody else came prepared.

    And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Pike still has the same learning curve as Bradford, Clausen, Lefevour and Tebow. He has to learn new schemes, how to play under center, how to read nfl defenses, etc, etc...

    To me, attitude is everything. The rest can be taught.

  11. #26
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    From SI.com

    Tony Pike/QB/Cincinnati: Pike had a terrific senior campaign but has struggled recently and looked ineffective in Indianapolis. More than anything else he needs to throw the ball well for scouts. He displayed marginal arm strength at the combine and many of his throws fluttered, in part due to his delivery.
    From Fox.com

    Tony Pike/Cincinnati/6056/223: After a solid set of practice performances during Senior Bowl week, much was expected from Pike during the throwing session at the NFL Combine. Unfortunately, he didn't deliver.
    Pike was all over the place with his accuracy, and his throwing mechanics were poor. Quarterbacks who have poor or inconsistent mechanics will take power off their throws. Pike seemed to be changing his delivery for some reason on some of his passes. Scout.com talked to several personnel evaluators during and after the workout who said Pike lost some draft value because of his disappointing workout. But as one scout added, at the very least, decision-makers will have to go back and look at his coaching tape to see whether his Combine performance is just an aberration.



    From Walterfootball.com


    Pike projects strictly as a career backup in the NFL. He simply doesn't possess even an average arm to be a starter. Pike can be somewhat reliable since he makes great decisions and is highly intelligent, but he lacks a lot of talent, and you can't coach talent. I project Pike to come off the board between the third and fifth rounds.



    From NFL.com


    Pike is a bit of a product of the system that has been in place with the Cincinnati Bearcats. He gets a lot of completions due to their dink and dunk passing attack that spreads the field out and relies primarily on their passing game to move the ball. He knows how to read coverages but will get stuck on his primary receiver at times rather than go to his second or third option. He is effective throwing from the pocket or when rolling to his right but will struggle when rolling left and having to throw back against the grain. He has struggled to stay healthy for a full season in college and will need to bulk up if he wants to survive the rigors of a full NFL season.



    I'm going with Bradford. Bradford is the better quarterback.

  12. #27
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Obviously, none of those people watched the combine.

    Anyone that offers an opinion, is unquestionably uninformed.

  13. #28
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Obviously, none of those people watched the combine.

    Anyone that offers an opinion, is unquestionably uninformed.

    I have no problems with people disagreeing with my opinion but I will never trust another man's judgements over my own.


    If you watched him play and saw the combine (yes both), then I fell you can make a strong opinionated comment.

    These guys that write articles are wrong more than right as half of them haven't played or been involved with competitive sports.

    People told me i was wrong when I said Vince Young is better than Matt Leinart and will be drafted higher.

    People told me I was wrong when I said Brady Quinn isn't a high draft pick.

    People all told me I was wrong (on this forum) last year when I said Kenny Britt is better than Bey, Crabtree, and Nicks.

    People were projecting Brian Robiskee ahead of Britt. All these writers and experts change there mind come draft day when the real football minds actually do the drafting.

    Britt is the best or 2nd best of the draft hands down.

    This year you will see Okung get drafted in the top 3 picks.

    You will see Tony Pike in round 3 or earlier. You will see Dan LeFevour turn out to be an absolute bum in the NFL and maybe drafted in round 5.

    You will see Darrio Alexander get drafted alot higher than people think as well as A. Benn.

    You will see LaFell slip and have a bad NFL career.

    Tate will be a 1st round draft choice.

    Clausen is a lock top 10 pick and McCoy may slide out of the top 5 or 6 all together.

    Besides the Raiders, Jaguars, or Bucs doin something dumb I think you will be suprised this year more than ever on how talent will change and how wrong the mocks will be this year.

    Since there is an unbelieveably deep draft (which me and Av told you guys way before the media) you will see guys shoot up the draft board.

    You will see a guy like OLB Arthur Moats, 6' 1" 239 lbs. James Madison
    taken in round 2 or 3 probably ahead of Jordan Shipley.

    but i made all these projections with my eyes, and not readings some magazine or blog

  14. #29
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Richtree, you take the biscruit.

  15. #30
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    Re: Bradford vs. Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    I have no problems with people disagreeing with my opinion but I will never trust another man's judgements over my own.


    If you watched him play and saw the combine (yes both), then I fell you can make a strong opinionated comment.

    These guys that write articles are wrong more than right as half of them haven't played or been involved with competitive sports.
    I watched the entire combine too and I was biased towards Tebow but after a poor showing I had to lower him on my favs list. After watching Zac Robinson I had to move him up my fav's list. And after watching Pike in the senior bowl and in the practices, he turned out to be exactly what I thought, personality wise and performance wise. Inconsistant abilities and no hint of leadership or heart.

    I wouldnt even entertain the idea of taking Pike in the 2nd round, not with legit first round talent likely to slip to the #33rd spot.

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