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  1. #31
    LongBlood's Avatar
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    Re: can we draft Suh now????

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    It'd still be 2 or 3 years to see if said wideout was actually going to pan out. After watching our struggles with rookie wideouts this season, I do not want to see this team "solve" the problem by drafting another rookie. Bring in a veteran if you want, but another rookie won't fix anything. By the same token, going all youth at another skill position is a horrifically bad idea. We need Jackson's veteran presence.

    Conversely, Suh is roundly considered the best defensive prospect of the last 10 years, and our defense is not so much better off that we can afford to pass on such talent in the name of filling a (perceived to be greater) need. His play is of such quality that he will contribute to the team's success immediately.
    Really...I thought our defense was the reason WHY were in so many games going into halftime. It was our offense that stunk up stadiums by constantly punting 3 and outs. That takes a massive toll on the defense that never gets a chance to rest. Week 1 was a perfect example when it looked like the defense quit at halftime after they had busted their balls. And well, that's pretty much how the season went. Last time we took a WR first round was '99! How many DT's have we taken since then? Lewis? Pickett? Kennedy? Charaker? Based on your own argument, bring in a DT then, and let's get the best WR in the draft Bryant, who will take pressure off the running game.

    Plain and simply, we need someone running our draft I actually have faith in, I'm sorry, but Billy D has shown me NOTHING. This teams needs a shake up, and we need to trade jackson if we are going to take Suh, but we also need a damn WR that will open things up, because it won't matter if we have a pro bowl QB like Cutler...still not a playoff team. This team needs weapons with a year to develop, then get the QB who can utilize 'em the following year, (unless you can find a QB with potential that's been in the league a few years Troy Smith *Cough*, *cough*!!!)


  2. #32
    sonnyjames is offline Registered User
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    Re: can we draft Suh now????

    I think we all know this is going to be THE only talking point of the next few months!

    For me, trading Jackson is a non-starter. The guaranteed productivity you get with him is obvious and I don't think it's worth gambling that away for a few unproven high picks. There's a whole other argument to be made for the profile that he brings to the franchise and the importance of that at a time when we're already struggling to keep fans interested, but for on-field reasons alone, I'd hate to see us trade him. Replacing his impact would be incredibly diffifcult and if we do manage to improve the O in other ways then his value will be worth even more to us, in terms of the options we would then have.

    As for Suh, well, my view is that he's simply the best pick out there and if you have holes just about everywhere then you need to take the best pick. The defence has been a fairly strong unit in most games, to be fair. It's more the amount of time that they are spending on the field that's damaging and points are often being given up later in the game. Adding Suh to that line will make for a pretty tough D.

    OL is the area for me that we really need to beef up. I'm not convinced Bulger's as much of a dud as some think him to be - I'd rather judge him with better protection first as I have a feeling it's what's in front of him that's the real problem. I like some of our young WRs too - Robinson, Avery, Gibson...all look to have something about them. Adding an older FA receiver would be my line of thought, to help mentor them and to add a bit of wilyness to that bunch.

    In short, I'd

    - keep number 39
    - draft Suh
    - use second / third round picks to look at the QB situation (there will almost certainly be some very good players left at that stage) and to look for better O line protection
    - use FA to (in order of priority) bring in a receiver / bolster that O line / further add to the D

    I'd like to think that something like that would improve us from where we are. There were a number of weeks where we were only a score or so away from the side that beat us, or where we gave up late points because the D was worn down. Returns from IR, plus five or six good bits of business in the draft / FA and I can definitely see us being way more competitive next year.

    What constitutes the minimum requirement for next season? 5-13, for me. The next seven months is where the Spags / Devaney era really starts.
    Last edited by sonnyjames; -01-04-2010 at 12:27 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: can we draft Suh now????

    Quote Originally Posted by LongBlood View Post
    Really...I thought our defense was the reason WHY were in so many games going into halftime. It was our offense that stunk up stadiums by constantly punting 3 and outs. That takes a massive toll on the defense that never gets a chance to rest. Week 1 was a perfect example when it looked like the defense quit at halftime after they had busted their balls. And well, that's pretty much how the season went. Last time we took a WR first round was '99! How many DT's have we taken since then? Lewis? Pickett? Kennedy? Charaker? Based on your own argument, bring in a DT then, and let's get the best WR in the draft Bryant, who will take pressure off the running game.

    Plain and simply, we need someone running our draft I actually have faith in, I'm sorry, but Billy D has shown me NOTHING. This teams needs a shake up, and we need to trade jackson if we are going to take Suh, but we also need a damn WR that will open things up, because it won't matter if we have a pro bowl QB like Cutler...still not a playoff team. This team needs weapons with a year to develop, then get the QB who can utilize 'em the following year, (unless you can find a QB with potential that's been in the league a few years Troy Smith *Cough*, *cough*!!!)
    If we trade Jackson, opponents will simply key on our recievers instead of the running game. We will not be able to scare up a back who is capable of commanding the defensive attention Jackson does, so much like defenses tried to have us beat them through the air last year, they would now try to have us beat them through the ground.

    Our receivers will get better; maybe never to Holt and Bruce levels, but they will improve their catching ability and their ability to run routes. Certainly enough that teams will stop stacking 8 or 9 in the box all game.

    At the same time our defense needs two things. Depth, and the ability to generate an honest to God pass rush. Suh provides both of those things.

  4. #34
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    Re: can we draft Suh now????

    Quote Originally Posted by sonnyjames View Post
    I think we all know this is going to be THE only talking point of the next few months!

    For me, trading Jackson is a non-starter. The guaranteed productivity you get with him is obvious and I don't think it's worth gambling that away for a few unproven high picks. There's a whole other argument to be made for the profile that he brings to the franchise and the importance of that at a time when we're already struggling to keep fans interested, but for on-field reasons alone, I'd hate to see us trade him. Replacing his impact would be incredibly diffifcult and if we do manage to improve the O in other ways then his value will be worth even more to us, in terms of the options we would then have.

    As for Suh, well, my view is that he's simply the best pick out there and if you have holes just about everywhere then you need to take the best pick. The defence has been a fairly strong unit in most games, to be fair. It's more the amount of time that they are spending on the field that's damaging and points are often being given up later in the game. Adding Suh to that line will make for a pretty tough D.

    OL is the area for me that we really need to beef up. I'm not convinced Bulger's as much of a dud as some think him to be - I'd rather judge him with better protection first as I have a feeling it's what's in front of him that's the real problem. I like some of our young WRs too - Robinson, Avery, Gibson...all look to have something about them. Adding an older FA receiver would be my line of thought, to help mentor them and to add a bit of wilyness to that bunch.

    In short, I'd

    - keep number 39
    - draft Suh
    - use second / third round picks to look at the QB situation (there will almost certainly be some very good players left at that stage) and to look for better O line protection
    - use FA to (in order of priority) bring in a receiver / bolster that O line / further add to the D

    I'd like to think that something like that would improve us from where we are. There were a number of weeks where we were only a score or so away from the side that beat us, or where we gave up late points because the D was worn down. Returns from IR, plus five or six good bits of business in the draft / FA and I can definitely see us being way more competitive next year.

    What constitutes the minimum requirement for next season? 5-13, for me. The next seven months is where the Spags / Devaney era really starts.
    I am not saying you are wrong, but let me say that we are not going to improve our record without a better QB. Simply saying we are going to put off getting a QB until the second or third round is risking just putting off this vital decision another year. I was never a Bulger hater, but from what I saw he lost whatever touch he used to have. He missed way too many easy throws even when the o-line did its job. If you are putting our QB situation in Bulgers hands again, our prospects for another horrible season are much better than average. I am not saying picking a QB in the first round improves that right away either, but at least we are making a commitment to that position for the future, rather than putting it off yet another year.

  5. #35
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    Re: can we draft Suh now????

    Quote Originally Posted by swatter555 View Post
    I am not saying picking a QB in the first round improves that right away either, but at least we are making a commitment to that position for the future, rather than putting it off yet another year.
    Sounds to me you'd rather have a mediocre QB than a beast on the D-line. Need over BPA. Being patient and waiting for the right guy is better than just throwing a piece of meat out onto the field.
    Last edited by The Optimistic Lamb; -01-06-2010 at 01:03 AM.

  6. #36
    sonnyjames is offline Registered User
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    Re: can we draft Suh now????

    Optimistic lamb - that's my view in a whole lot less words ;o)

    Play the quality game rather than the position game, that's my view. IF Suh is a 10/10 in his position (if, ok...?!) then does Bradford = 10/10 as a QB too? If so, great, go get him. I just feel that Suh is a better DT than Bradford is a QB.

    And that's enough for me to say Suh should be the pick, of those two. Altho I'm not discounting trades yet...

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