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  1. #46
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
    Yes, of course not in value, but in terms of BPA he is top three.
    Again, not according to some rankings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
    Plus, the Rams obviously have him near if not at top of their board. Devaney gushed over Dorsey and Wagoner said they considered him the best defender in the draft (maybe not anymore, that remains to be seen).
    So let me get this straight. When a negative report about Dorsey's health comes out, you say it's completely fake and obviously a smokescreen by some team hoping he'll slip. But when Devaney gives a positive report of the guy, it's a sign of his true feelings and that the Rams have him ranked near or at the top of their board. Does that about sum it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
    I think it will all come down to how he performs on his pro day and checks out.
    I think the latter is the only thing that will matter. Him showing up and performing well at his pro day should be expected. The true test is what the medical exams show over the next month.


  2. #47
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Honestly, I really want to keep teasing you about hating Dorsey, Nick. Knowing that you don't hasn't killed the urge yet.

    My only questions with selecting Gholston #2 are: 1) his main drawback seems to be "desire" given what we've heard and 2) he sounds relatively raw. Neither of these are huge problems, as you can see from his high ranking by the gurus, but it increases the risk factor and there is tremendous temptation to reduce that with the second pick in the draft.

  3. #48
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Quote Originally Posted by chiguy
    Neither of these are huge problems, as you can see from his high ranking by the gurus, but it increases the risk factor and there is tremendous temptation to reduce that with the second pick in the draft.
    And THAT is what has me nervous about VG. A "finished product" like Long doesn't need near the level of coaching, motivation, mentoring, etc., that a "raw material" like Gholston needs. At that point, it comes down to confidence in the coaching staff to "finish" the product.

    And there's where the wheels fall off for me. I don't have the confidence in this coaching staff to "finish" the product.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  4. #49
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Viper
    I don't really see that much difference between Chris Long and Carriker
    Except for the 45 pounds.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  5. #50
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    I'm more sold right now on Dorsey's ability than Long's. It's easier for me to believe that a player from the SEC that was as dominant as Dorsey was against that competition is more likely to be a difference maker than a player from the ACC.

    Now c'mon Nick. Give me the "scientific" reason why I'm wrong.

  6. #51
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I'm more sold right now on Dorsey's ability than Long's. It's easier for me to believe that a player from the SEC that was as dominant as Dorsey was against that competition is more likely to be a difference maker than a player from the ACC.

    Now c'mon Nick. Give me the "scientific" reason why I'm wrong.
    There is no scientific reason

    but the difference between players like the Longs, Dorsey and Gholston isnt a lot, and certainly not enough to say "this player is so much better than the others around that we can ignore our needs and pick him here"

  7. #52
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    I'm more sold right now on Dorsey's ability than Long's. It's easier for me to believe that a player from the SEC that was as dominant as Dorsey was against that competition is more likely to be a difference maker than a player from the ACC.
    I agree this is a very good point. He has only one very good year at DE where he had 14 sacks. I wish he was in the 4-3 and avg. 10 per year.(0ver four years) Hub... Not the case.Will Chris Long be a 5-7 sacks a year guy and a high motor guy? Is that a number two pick in the draft?

    That's why the safe and sure pick is Jake Long.

    Dorsey has some question marks, Gholston has is issues ("desire").

    What down side does Jake have?
    Last edited by Rambos; -03-10-2008 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Hub

  8. #53
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos
    I wish he was in the 4-3 and avg. 10 per year. Not the case.
    Very true. His one year in the 4-3, "averaged" 14 sacks.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  9. #54
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Quote Originally Posted by chiguy View Post
    Honestly, I really want to keep teasing you about hating Dorsey, Nick. Knowing that you don't hasn't killed the urge yet.
    Well, lemme see. You could say I hate LSU because they got to play for a national title whereas WVU didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiguy View Post
    Neither of these are huge problems, as you can see from his high ranking by the gurus, but it increases the risk factor and there is tremendous temptation to reduce that with the second pick in the draft.
    True, but aren't potential injury concerns also risk factors? NFL doctors have raised Dorsey's leg injury as well as other ailments as red flags to examine. Reducing the risk of the second overall pick also means not spending it on a guy who could still be playing through potentially long-term issues.

    Dorsey could help quiet these concerns if he passes all of his medical tests, but it was reported as an issue at the combine, and according to Adam Schefter, Dorsey told him the leg was still sore.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    And THAT is what has me nervous about VG. A "finished product" like Long doesn't need near the level of coaching, motivation, mentoring, etc., that a "raw material" like Gholston needs. At that point, it comes down to confidence in the coaching staff to "finish" the product.

    And there's where the wheels fall off for me. I don't have the confidence in this coaching staff to "finish" the product.
    I think at this point everyone would prefer Chris Long to Gholston, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I'm more sold right now on Dorsey's ability than Long's. It's easier for me to believe that a player from the SEC that was as dominant as Dorsey was against that competition is more likely to be a difference maker than a player from the ACC.

    Now c'mon Nick. Give me the "scientific" reason why I'm wrong.
    You could be right, level of competition is certainly a factor as well as how they played against that competition. There are numerous factors to consider as pros and cons for both sides.

  10. #55
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Very true. His one year in the 4-3, "averaged" 14 sacks.
    Funny Hub, I went to vegas played one hand of black Jack and won. I'm going to sell my house and move to Vegas and do it full time.

  11. #56
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Funny Hub, I went to vegas played one hand of black Jack and won. I'm going to sell my house and move to Vegas and do it full time.
    So Chris Long's results as a 4-3 (only part time at that, still spent significant amount of time in the 3-4 this year) DE are mere luck? And his chance of reproducing similar results at the next level are no better than making a living against Vegas?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #57
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Whatever conference you play in, the amount of sacks Chris Long had last year is impressive.

    I'm a Dorsey fan but I'm not going to be disappointed one bit if the Rams get Jake Long, Chris Long, or Glenn Dorsey. It's like having a preference to chocolate, strawberry, or vanilla. Can't really go wrong.

  13. #58
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I'm more sold right now on Dorsey's ability than Long's. It's easier for me to believe that a player from the SEC that was as dominant as Dorsey was against that competition is more likely to be a difference maker than a player from the ACC.

    Now c'mon Nick. Give me the "scientific" reason why I'm wrong.
    There've been so many posts I wanted to copy and reply to, but this one is recent and good enough that Tx is the big winner.

    You want a scientific reason? Half his DNA is already in the hall of fame.

    As for your opinions of the ACC versus the SEC, how about we talk about the SWAC, or Southwestern Athletic Conference. I'm sure they don't have anywhere near the competition that the SEC, Big Ten, Pac-10, ACC or hell, even the normal ol' WAC do. Anyone know of anyone from the SWAC? Jerry Freaking Rice played in the SWAC at Mississippi Valley State University.

    At least the SWAC is division I, how about we go further down the competition levels to division II. Anyone want someone from South Dakota State? He played a pretty mean offensive line there, but of course the competition wasn't as good as that as the SEC. How about we pass on him then? A lot of teams did, until the Packers found a temporary home for Adam Timmerman.

    The level of competition means something in comparing players, but it is very very subjective. Players mature at different times, top out at different times, but the one thing that should stay constant is their fire. If their internal passion and fire are true, even with a $60 million contract, they'll play like every snap was their last. That's what Chris Long will do for you. I don't know about Dorsey, but if he's really the next Warren Sapp, then I'm sure he'll be the same.

    The questions have boiled down to which one of them and Gholston are worth the #2 pick and what happens to Carriker. Well, as it has been stated many times, AC's a very good DT in the NFL. I'm sure we could move him back to strong side DE, however, he won't be a speed threat even if he dropped his weight down significantly, but he can out-maneuver interior linemen, but probably not OT's. As such, we'd have a very good run-stopping line, but again, we'd have very little pass rush without blitzing. Our linebackers could probably get free shots at the QB with essentially three DT's blocking for them, but we'd still have holes in the secondary. As long as Gholston proves himself in interviews and on his pro day, I think he needs to be higher on our draft board the Dorsey, even moreso with the potentially long term nagging injuries that won't make him miss time, but will hamper him.

  14. #59
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Anyone know of anyone from the SWAC? Jerry Freaking Rice played in the SWAC at Mississippi Valley State University.
    Can you name another?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #60
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    Re: Carriker and the upcoming draft ..

    Teke, it's very well documented also that I am far from being a draftnik. I honestly think the whole draft is about as speculative as trying to guess what Paris Hilton may be wearing on any given day.

    Ready HUb and la....ok here goes. The draft is a crap shoot.

    Now, partake in your favorite libation in moderation of course.

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