Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
  1. #1
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is online now Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,301
    Rep Power
    153

    Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble
    By ADAM TEICHER
    The Kansas City Star
    Posted on Sat, Mar. 28, 2009

    DANA POINT, Calif. | With the NFL draft inching closer, the Chiefs aren’t saying as much, but they’re hoping the Detroit Lions are in a gambling mood with the first pick.

    If they are, that means the Lions will grab quarterback Matt Stafford of Georgia and, of more importance to the Chiefs, leave them with the pick of defensive players when their turn rolls around at No. 3 of the April 25-26 draft.

    The Rams are in-between with the second pick and seem certain after releasing veteran Orlando Pace to go for one of the top offensive tackles, Jason Smith of Baylor or Eugene Monroe of Virginia.

    “Certainly the tackle spot we’ve got to address,” St. Louis coach Steve Spagnuolo said last week at the NFL meetings. “You’ve got to build with the linemen first. Offensively and defensively. To me, that’s always a focus.”


    The Chiefs, with new general manager Scott Pioli and new coach Todd Haley, haven’t tipped their draft plans. Haley is a former offensive coordinator and wide receivers coach, so it wouldn’t be a wild pick for them to select a receiver like Michael Crabtree of Texas Tech or to further the rebuilding of their offensive line by choosing Smith or Monroe, if available.

    But with the Chiefs having a bigger need for talented defensive players, that would seem where they’re headed with that third pick. Wake Forest linebacker Aaron Curry would appear to be a good fit for the Chiefs.

    Two other defensive players, Florida State linebacker Everette Brown and Boston College nose tackle B.J. Raji, would certainly fit needs, Brown as a pass rusher and Raji as the big run-stuffer the Chiefs currently lack.

    If the Chiefs want their choice of the draft’s defensive players, the Lions are the bigger problem. St. Louis selected a defensive end, Chris Long, with the second pick in the draft last year. While the Rams could go for defense again, they are more likely to grab an offensive lineman with their top pick.

    The Lions, who last season became the first NFL team to finish a season 0-16, have a need for Curry, but they also need a quarterback. That’s where the gambling part comes in.

    When he was hired in January, coach Jim Schwartz talked about that need, saying it was finally time for the Lions to replace Bobby Layne, the great quarterback who last played for Detroit 50 years ago.

    “We need to find a quarterback,” Schwartz said last week. “I’ve been on the record saying quarterback is the most important position on the team. But there are a lot of different ways to get that quarterback. I’ve said this before, Peyton Manning was drafted No. 1 overall. Kurt Warner, a Super Bowl champion and a Super Bowl (participant) this year, was an undrafted free agent. There are a lot of different ways to get that quarterback.”

    At quarterback, the Lions have veteran Daunte Culpepper and two developmental players, Drew Stanton and Drew Henson. Culpepper’s best NFL seasons happened with the Vikings when Scott Linehan was Minnesota’s offensive coordinator.

    Schwartz hired Linehan to run Detroit’s offense.

    But Culpepper is 32, making it difficult for the Lions to build around him.

    “We need to be long-term at that position,” Schwartz said. “We need to have a guy that’s that guy.”

    Stafford, generally considered the draft’s top available quarterback, would be a gamble for the Lions. He has unquestioned ability but wasn’t a standout player in college and left Georgia early. Underclassmen quarterbacks generally haven’t fared well in the NFL as rookies or as veterans.

    “I don’t know if safe is part of the criteria for the No. 1,” Schwartz said. “You want to feel comfortable with the guy and things like that, but I don’t think that when you look at that, you say, ‘Hey, look, this is safe.’ Safe choice, a little bit, sounds like compromise.

    “But we can’t afford to make mistakes. We need to take advantage of those picks. We can’t look at it like we have a do-over if we make a mistake. You’ve got four at-bats in a baseball game. You don’t want to just swing for the fences every time in key situations, saying, ‘Well, I’ve got a couple more at-bats coming.’ The game situation might dictate you put the bat on the ball rather than swinging for the fences.”

    Detroit has an additional first-round pick at No. 20 acquired in a trade from Dallas. That could make it easier for the Lions to take Stafford with the first pick.

    “We can’t afford to pass talent in the draft,” Schwartz said. “We’re not in the position like where I came from with the Tennessee Titans where we go in and we don’t have a whole lot of holes. You say, ‘Maybe we need to address these two or three positions.’ Our needs are spread a lot farther so particularly early in the draft, I don’t think you’ll see us pass what we believe is talent.

    “If you have guys rated similarly, you go ahead and take your need. But talent is probably going to trump all for us simply because of the situation we’re in. One of the things that helps us not be able to pass talent is because we have so many picks (five) in the first 82. If we just had (two picks), maybe you would have to think a little bit more of need.”

    While Detroit decides, the Rams and Chiefs are keeping watch.

    “I think you’ve got to keep an eyeball on it,” said St. Louis’ Spagnuolo, who was speaking for his own team but could have also been talking for the Chiefs. “I’m not sure if you know what information you’re getting. So we’ll just be prepared when our time comes to make a real smart decision.”


  2. #2
    C-Mob 71's Avatar
    C-Mob 71 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    S. Illinois
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Cough, cough.... seems like Spags is blowing smoke to me

  3. #3
    Ramblin` Ram's Avatar
    Ramblin` Ram is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Nation of Rams
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,401
    Rep Power
    54

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    draft Curry..if they then decide they want to throw the farm at us to get him then great... but if they dont,then we end up with the best prospect in the entire draft...what a bummer...

  4. #4
    BarronWade's Avatar
    BarronWade is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,427
    Rep Power
    23

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblin` Ram View Post
    draft Curry..if they then decide they want to throw the farm at us to get him then great... but if they dont,then we end up with the best prospect in the entire draft...what a bummer...
    I hate when people say this!

    lets say Curry is taken by the lions. Then the Best Player Available is Micheal Crabtree so with that logic you just said would u want Crabtree if Curry is taken?

    And Spags is right before we win anyother battle we need to win the battle in the trenches.


    Also to those of you planning on taking an OT in the 2nd the 3 big names are:

    Troy Kropog
    Phil Loadholt
    Jamon Merideth

    All of them dont fit the OL that Spags and Devaney are trying to build. Devaney said that they are not taking risks with bad character prospects like the old regime did so take Loadholt's name off the list. Also Spags wants a guy that is good in the run game and decent in the pass so take both Merideth and Kropog off the list b/c both cannot get that push in the run game.

    Thats why we go for Eugene Monroe in the 1st.

  5. #5
    general counsel's Avatar
    general counsel is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    atlanta, georgia
    Age
    52
    Posts
    5,516
    Rep Power
    80

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Just curious, is he the best player available when he has a broken foot? Is he the best player available when his recovery period is such that all tests are speculative in nature? I agree that crabtree has immense talent, but the injury adds a material element of risk. There are other good players available at major positions of need. No reason for the rams to swing for the fences and use the #2 pick on a guy with a significant injury.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  6. #6
    C-Mob 71's Avatar
    C-Mob 71 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    S. Illinois
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    I hate when people say this!

    lets say Curry is taken by the lions. Then the Best Player Available is Micheal Crabtree so with that logic you just said would u want Crabtree if Curry is taken?

    And Spags is right before we win anyother battle we need to win the battle in the trenches.


    Also to those of you planning on taking an OT in the 2nd the 3 big names are:

    Troy Kropog
    Phil Loadholt
    Jamon Merideth

    All of them dont fit the OL that Spags and Devaney are trying to build. Devaney said that they are not taking risks with bad character prospects like the old regime did so take Loadholt's name off the list. Also Spags wants a guy that is good in the run game and decent in the pass so take both Merideth and Kropog off the list b/c both cannot get that push in the run game.

    Thats why we go for Eugene Monroe in the 1st.
    Thats funny because I feel exactly opposite of you!

    We are a bad team with many holes. We have to take the best player we can get, especially if they fill a major need. I am not a scout, a gm, or a coach (though I do play ones on a video game) so I am not qualified to rank these prospects. If there is a significant difference between one player or another regardless of position (except for a kicker or punter for you smart a's out there) you take the higher rated player. That being sad I am pretty sure we have discussed this exact BPA vs. position need topic a few weeks ago so I digress.

  7. #7
    Bald_81's Avatar
    Bald_81 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    25
    Posts
    882
    Rep Power
    22

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Just curious, is he the best player available when he has a broken foot? Is he the best player available when his recovery period is such that all tests are speculative in nature? I agree that crabtree has immense talent, but the injury adds a material element of risk. There are other good players available at major positions of need. No reason for the rams to swing for the fences and use the #2 pick on a guy with a significant injury.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    If that's the case, you don't want Eugene Monroe either because of his injury risk. His lingering knee issues have been documented and could become a problem for whatever team drafts him. Or, you could look at it this way:

    Muñoz was selected with the third overall pick in the 1980 National Football League draft by the Cincinnati Bengals. His selection was viewed as a major risk by many pundits since knee problems limited the 6'-6", 280-pound Muñoz to just a combined eight games in his junior and senior seasons. However, Muñoz became a starter in his rookie season and remained a fixture at left tackle for the Bengals for 13 seasons and is considered one of the greatest offensive linemen in NFL history. Despite his history of injuries, Muñoz missed just three games during his first 12 seasons.
    So, what's it going to be? Personally, Crabtree's injury is not that serious IMO. He played through it this season having not known in existed (yes he could've made it worse), but the recovery from injuries like his are routine and usually 100%. There's no reason to believe it would affect his playing ability once he reaches the NFL. As for Monroe, that's another story. I don't believe it, but like most of you last year, I'm sure you'll all be over this "risk" and say we should pass.
    Last edited by Bald_81; -03-29-2009 at 02:48 PM.

  8. #8
    BarronWade's Avatar
    BarronWade is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,427
    Rep Power
    23

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Mob 71 View Post
    Thats funny because I feel exactly opposite of you!

    We are a bad team with many holes. We have to take the best player we can get, especially if they fill a major need. I am not a scout, a gm, or a coach (though I do play ones on a video game) so I am not qualified to rank these prospects. If there is a significant difference between one player or another regardless of position (except for a kicker or punter for you smart a's out there) you take the higher rated player. That being sad I am pretty sure we have discussed this exact BPA vs. position need topic a few weeks ago so I digress.
    Then answer this question. After Curry is gone Crabtree is the BPA and we also have a need at WR. SO would you take Crabtree over Monroe or Smith?


    Also about that BPA logic you just gave why dont we just fire Billy Devaney and hire Matt Milen he is an expert at drafting the BPA.

  9. #9
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
    Goldenfleece is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    3,586
    Rep Power
    60

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    I don't think Crabtree is the clear cut best player available in that scenario. Even if the foot isn't a real big risk, his speed was already a bit of a question mark, and now nobody will get to see him run.

    Also, as far as second round offensive tackles go, it seems like a lot of mock drafts have William Beatty available when we pick, and that's usually assuming we take an offensive tackle in round one. If we don't, that's one more player that other teams in the market for an OT in round one can take, possibly bumping one of the others down into round two.

  10. #10
    C-Mob 71's Avatar
    C-Mob 71 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    S. Illinois
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    Then answer this question. After Curry is gone Crabtree is the BPA and we also have a need at WR. SO would you take Crabtree over Monroe or Smith?


    Also about that BPA logic you just gave why dont we just fire Billy Devaney and hire Matt Milen he is an expert at drafting the BPA.
    I have never stated Crabtree was the next BPA after Curry, that is up to the FO to decide. If they have him rated significantly higher than the OT's than I think we should absolutely take him. Need would equal value, so that seems like a no brainer. Of course that depends how they view Crabtree. By the way I'm assuming importance of position is a factor in their rating system as well, hence a kicker would never out rate a tackle, but a wide out could possibly out rate an important position like LT if the WR is that much better.

    Obviously Matt Millen is a horrible judge of talent. It takes more than just listening to the media to be an expert. If all of his draft picks would have really been the best players available than Detroit would have the best offense in the NFL. Your "expert" drafter wasn't able to distinguish who was the true BPA, hence the Lions and their dismal state.

  11. #11
    BarronWade's Avatar
    BarronWade is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,427
    Rep Power
    23

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    I don't think Crabtree is the clear cut best player available in that scenario. Even if the foot isn't a real big risk, his speed was already a bit of a question mark, and now nobody will get to see him run.

    Also, as far as second round offensive tackles go, it seems like a lot of mock drafts have William Beatty available when we pick, and that's usually assuming we take an offensive tackle in round one. If we don't, that's one more player that other teams in the market for an OT in round one can take, possibly bumping one of the others down into round two.
    Crabtree is not a burner he is more of a feature WR. And the way you talked about other mock drafts go look at there rankings most likely Crabtree is the 2nd BPA.

    Also Beatty is not too good a run blocker. And i just dont know how he will get by vs. bull rushers. Also remember last year many OL were taken so you never know.

  12. #12
    HUbison's Avatar
    HUbison is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    40
    Posts
    13,550
    Rep Power
    144

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by Barron
    After Curry is gone Crabtree is the BPA
    Well there's the problem right there. Crabtree isn't the BPA.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #13
    BarronWade's Avatar
    BarronWade is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,427
    Rep Power
    23

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Mob 71 View Post
    I have never stated Crabtree was the next BPA after Curry, that is up to the FO to decide. If they have him rated significantly higher than the OT's than I think we should absolutely take him. Need would equal value, so that seems like a no brainer. Of course that depends how they view Crabtree. By the way I'm assuming importance of position is a factor in their rating system as well, hence a kicker would never out rate a tackle, but a wide out could possibly out rate an important position like LT if the WR is that much better.

    Obviously Matt Millen is a horrible judge of talent. It takes more than just listening to the media to be an expert. If all of his draft picks would have really been the best players available than Detroit would have the best offense in the NFL. Your "expert" drafter wasn't able to distinguish who was the true BPA, hence the Lions and their dismal state.
    well i dont think Curry is rated significantly higher than the 2 OTs

    Obviously you did not get my Matt Milen metaphor. Matt Millen too the BPA instead of filling in his defensive issues. We have OL issues.

    Spags use to be a LBs coach and he coached Antonio Pierce well like the rest of that LB core. Chris Draft had a great year with Fajole as his LB coach. So i am confident that if we get LB in the later rounds we can develop them and get by with Spoon-Draft-Culberson/ drafted rookie.

  14. #14
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
    Goldenfleece is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    3,586
    Rep Power
    60

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    Crabtree is not a burner he is more of a feature WR. And the way you talked about other mock drafts go look at there rankings most likely Crabtree is the 2nd BPA.

    Also Beatty is not too good a run blocker. And i just dont know how he will get by vs. bull rushers. Also remember last year many OL were taken so you never know.
    Last time I looked at the mock drafts, they indicated where a player was to be taken, not necessarily who was the best value. For example, on CBSSports.com, they've got four mock drafts by "experts" predicting Crabtree to go 7th in two of them, 13th in one, and 4th in the last one. Scott Wright has repeatedly stated that the only two players he gives an elite grade to are Stafford and Curry. On ESPN.com, Kiper has Crabtree going 6th and McShay has him going 8th. This hardly seems like a consensus that he is the first or second best player in the draft.

  15. #15
    C-Mob 71's Avatar
    C-Mob 71 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    S. Illinois
    Posts
    1,506
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Chiefs’ top draft choice likely depends on Lions’ willingness to gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    well i dont think Curry is rated significantly higher than the 2 OTs

    Obviously you did not get my Matt Milen metaphor. Matt Millen too the BPA instead of filling in his defensive issues. We have OL issues.

    Spags use to be a LBs coach and he coached Antonio Pierce well like the rest of that LB core. Chris Draft had a great year with Fajole as his LB coach. So i am confident that if we get LB in the later rounds we can develop them and get by with Spoon-Draft-Culberson/ drafted rookie.
    I'll take Billy's ratings over yours any day, but if he feels as you do than I'm all for taking an OT if thats how they have evaluated the talent.

    I understood your metaphor, just didn't think it was a very good one. If Millen was a competent talent evaluator Detroit would be chalked full of good up and coming players instead of a bunch of wide receiver busts. Just because Kiper and McShay say they are the BPA doesn't mean that they really are. Besides Megatron, he obviously did not pick the BPA while he was in Detroit.

    I'm not sure where the hate on Antonio Pierce on the board comes from, because he is a heck of a lot better than Chris Draft. I saw what Culberson and Draft could do last year, and I'm not looking forward to seeing running backs torch us again. Draft played around some pretty darn good defensive players in Carolina, and I feel like he could still produce, but not if we are relying on him to be the man. We need to surround him with more talent than we had last year, and by my count we have only added James Butler to our porous defense.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Rambos mock draft 09
    By Rambos in forum DRAFT & FA
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: -03-08-2009, 05:03 PM
  2. Barry Waller - Draft review part 1
    By RamDez in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: -04-03-2005, 12:07 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: -03-30-2005, 01:36 AM
  4. Salary Cap Request
    By HUbison in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: -12-31-2004, 02:48 AM
  5. Possible Draft Choice
    By sprtsmac in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: -01-14-2002, 07:50 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •