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  1. #16
    harrydog's Avatar
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Chris Long is considered the best DE in the draft. I can't argue with that. But I don't think he is necessarily the best pass rushing DE in the draft. I also think Gholston has more upside potential. He's really had very little football experience and yet has played at a very high level.
    Does that mean I would select Gholston over Long if both were available? No, primarily because Long gets such high grades in the character and effort departments which I think is very important.
    But given the opportunity, would it be more beneficial for the Rams to trade down a few spots, select Gholston, and get additional early round picks? I think so.
    My only point was to generate some discussion about this, since everyone seems to be so sold on Chris Long as being the player who will turn things around for the Rams.


  2. #17
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Chris Long (DE)
    Height:6'4"
    Weight:275
    College:Virginia
    Conference:ACC
    Hometown:Ivy, VA
    High School:St. Anne's-Belfield
    "A" top performer at the combine in: 40-yard dash | Vertical jump | Broad jump | 3-cone drill | 20-yard shuttle

    Analysis
    Positives: Has long arms and large hands, with good upper body muscle tone, tight waist and hips and shows good lower body thickness...Uses his long reach well to keep blockers away from his body, also utilizing it, along with good timing and leaping ability to bat down a fair share of passes at the line of scrimmage...What sets him apart from most young defensive ends is his keen knowledge of the game and his uncanny ability to read block pressure and quickly locate the ball...Quick-twitch athlete who shows good quickness, agility and flexibility, showing good knee bend...Builds to top acceleration nicely in long pursuit and shows good redirection skills in his pass rush off the edge...Lacks an explosive burst, but has good leverage and reach to separate from blocks and close on the quarterback...Shows solid football instincts and is able to learn and retain information easily, showing the quick instincts to locate the ball through trash...Plays and practices hard and with a purpose, showing good effort and toughness throughout the play...Leads by example, as well as with his voice, as the coaches encourage the younger players to emulate his great work ethic...Can handle tough coaching and is harder on himself than the staff is when he fails to make a play or blows an assignment...Has active hands and feet, showing outstanding quickness off the ball and natural movement ability to close...Comes off the snap with good pad level, getting into the blocker quickly with a solid hand jolt to rock the opponent back on his heels (needs to do a better job of staying on the lead blocker to clog the rush lane, though)...Has very crisp plant-and-drive agility to make quick change of direction moves working down the line...One of his better assets is his lateral agility...Has a good feel for blocks and knows what to do to avoid in pursuit...Defends the run well, using his hands and extending at the point-of-attack, as he has the hand punch to quickly shed blockers and has developed into an efficient, physical, hip-roll tackler working in-line... When he extends his arms (and keeps them active), he plays with good leverage and can hold ground at the point of attack vs. the isolated blocker (struggles some vs. double-teams)...Has better leverage than strength to anchor, knowing how to use his lower body...Has enough size and strength to hold up at the point-of-attack and the flexibility to sit in the crease and hold his ground or get off blocks...When he keeps his hands inside the framework, he can keep separation from the blocker (exposes his chest when his hands get too wide)...Moves very well laterally and displays good effort in pursuit, as he has the knee bend to slip by blockers in-line...High energy type who had better success disengaging in 2007 than he did in the past, thanks to clearing his feet and chasing hard to run down plays in pursuit...Shows adequate flexibility to fight off cut blocks (needs to protect feet better still, but has improved), as he takes good angles when pursuing downfield...Physical tackler who can bend, roll his hips and drive through the ballcarrier...Might not generate explosive hits, but he has the strength to push the pocket...Makes a good effort to arm tackle...His above average lateral quickness is utilized well in his back-side pursuit...Does a good job when asked to wrap up and drag down the ballcarrier in space and he has the functional strength to generate inside pressure vs. offensive line-man's outside shoulder...Shows good body lean coming off the snap and has developed a solid inside counter move to generate pressure...Has the upfield speed, along with swim and rip moves to go with the inside counter and bull rush (asset needed for a potential move to defensive tackle)...Uses flexibility and a good burst to collapse the pocket and displays the quick hands and feet, along with good hip-flex to turn the corner on edge rushes...Can keep separation vs. the run when he uses his hands to control, and when he takes dead aim on the quarterback he shows good intent to get there...With his leverage, he can beat the blocker in and out to close on the passer, as he demonstrates good hand placement and the ability to separate from blockers.



    Negatives: Lacks suddenness off the snap to surprise a lethargic blocker...Best when taking angles to the quarterback, as he does not have the foot speed to take the wide loop in pursuit...Needs to be more active with his hands, especially when executing counter moves, as he struggles to shed when a blocker locks on to his jersey...Susceptible to the low block and needs to do a better job of slipping off double teams (must execute his spin move more)...Might be a better fit as a defensive tackle in a 4-3 alignment, so as not to expose his adequate closing burst...Does not use his reach or counter moves with consistency and can be engulfed by the larger blockers...Plays better on the move (can get stuck on the bigger blockers at the X's).

    Compares To: AARON KAMPMAN-Green Bay...Like Kampman, Long is not the fastest, nor is he the strongest defensive end you will find. He lacks the blazing speed you look for in an edge rusher and will struggle to shed blocks at times, but like the Packers standout, he has great field savvy, vision and determination. He knows when he needs to avoid blockers rather than try to overpower them, as he really doesn't have that blow-up strength (good, not great) to dominate, anyway. What he does is take good angles in pursuit and display excellent lateral range working down the line. In a scheme that will let him press the outside shoulder of an offensive tackle, he will have good success. With his pad level and in-line instincts, he could also earn quality minutes as a defensive tackle in a 4-3 alignment, but is more ideally suited to play defensive end in a 3-4 formation.


    He seems to have the intangibles. Gohlston is a beast, but he appears maxed out size and speed wise and I wonder about his committment to the game compared to Long.
    Semper Fi!

  3. #18
    harrydog's Avatar
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richbert88 View Post
    Gohlston is a beast, but he appears maxed out size and speed wise and I wonder about his committment to the game compared to Long.
    The commitment thing is my main concern with Gohlston. Does he give 100% every game? I'm thinking maybe not.

  4. #19
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    You doubt Gholston's effort based on what? Just curious.

  5. #20
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    I think Long is more athletic than Gholston in terms of how they differ in size.. Long is like 30 pounds heavier than Gholston yet still had a 35 inch vet and ran a very impressive 4.7 flat for a 270+ guy. Btw Gholston only ran a 4.67 I believe.

  6. #21
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cweezy172 View Post
    You doubt Gholston's effort based on what? Just curious.
    If we can't get Chris I think Gholston would be great... but here are the weird stats that make me scratch my head about him. In 07 he had 13 sacks in 6 games... he also had 0 sacks in 6 games. What's really confusing about this is several of the 13 sacks came against the better opponents, like Michigan, and the some of the 0 sack games came against the weaker teams, like Youngstown.

  7. #22
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richbert88 View Post
    Compares To: AARON KAMPMAN-Green Bay
    No, you know who I compare him to? Peyton freaking Manning. Both come from famous NFL star fathers and grew up under their spotlight and still chose to go after the same positions as their fathers. Both have dealt with people thinking that their fathers' got them to where they are. Both also know that that isn't true and have done nothing but work hard and study the game intensely to move out from that shadow and create their own spotlight, their own career. Both have drawn/will draw comparisons to their fathers the first couple years, but have/will quickly establish themselves as their own identity. Peyton and Chris' greatest fear is to fail. If you think that Ray Lewis is the Peyton Manning of defenders, wait till you see Chris Long. Long will get a ring or two. Will they be the Rams' as well?

  8. #23
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    I have read some great arguments for both players Chris Long and Vernon Gholston in this thread.

    The great thing is that our RAMS will have the opportunity to select at least one of them. Obviously both if the Dolphins don't select one of them.

    I wonder which way our RAMS are going to go if they are both in fact available when's it's our turn to make a selection?

    Then again maybe our RAMS will totally surprise us and not select either one???


    Fun stuff if you ask me.

  9. #24
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cweezy172 View Post
    You doubt Gholston's effort based on what? Just curious.
    I don't know. I thought I had heard of people questioning his effort at times. I really didn't follow him in college so I have no first hand knowledge.

  10. #25
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by GSOT View Post
    I think Long is more athletic than Gholston in terms of how they differ in size.. Long is like 30 pounds heavier than Gholston yet still had a 35 inch vet and ran a very impressive 4.7 flat for a 270+ guy. Btw Gholston only ran a 4.67 I believe.
    30 pounds heavier? Where'd you get that from?
    Long weighed 272 and ran 4.68 - 4.75 - 4.84 at the combine.
    Gholston weighed 266 and ran 4.56 - 4.67 - 4.76 at the combine.
    That's 6 pounds heavier and they're both the same height. I think Gholston is supposed to have a quicker first step, which means a lot at that position. Gholston is almost a tenth faster in the 40 which is fairly significant.
    Still, given the choice between the two with the 2nd overall pick I'd go with Long. But given the choice of Long at 2 or moving down a few spots and taking Gholston plus extra 2nd and 3rd round picks, I might lean the other way.

  11. #26
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cweezy172 View Post
    You doubt Gholston's effort based on what? Just curious.
    See Nick's Mailbag post over in Ram Talk.
    "...his effort and consistency has been deemed questionable."

  12. #27
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cweezy172 View Post
    You doubt Gholston's effort based on what? Just curious.
    Gholston came up big in big games, such as against Michigan, but disappeared in the easy games for some reason. Maybe, somehow the lesser teams gameplanned against him better, but it's still a bit of a concern that he be like Moss and "play when I want to play". I'd like to think that every game would be big for him in the NFL, but when you're playing the 0-10 Dolphins, he could be one to take the game off, or he might not. It's unknown, and something I'm sure our coaches will drill him about.

  13. #28
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teke
    It's unknown, and something I'm sure our coaches will drill him about.
    I agree, Teke. If I'm bringing him in for a workout, we spend more time in interviews than on the field.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  14. #29
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    I agree, Teke. If I'm bringing him in for a workout, we spend more time in interviews than on the field.
    I'm sure they'll do that but you really can't expect to learn too much in that regard from an interview unless the guy's a real dope. Anyone can interview well and say all the right things. These guys are all coached by their agents on what teams want to hear. There's really no way of knowing other than actually seeing them on the field, week in and week out. I'd assume they will view all kinds of game tapes on anyone they're considering.

  15. #30
    TekeRam's Avatar
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    Re: Is Chris Long really our best option?

    Quote Originally Posted by harrydog View Post
    I'm sure they'll do that but you really can't expect to learn too much in that regard from an interview unless the guy's a real dope. Anyone can interview well and say all the right things. These guys are all coached by their agents on what teams want to hear. There's really no way of knowing other than actually seeing them on the field, week in and week out. I'd assume they will view all kinds of game tapes on anyone they're considering.
    Yeah, but what exactly would the coaches want to hear? That he was giving his all and was just blocked well that day, or that he was slacking because he didn't feel that the game was all that important. Either way there's a risk, as he was either blocked by inferior blockers or he admits to taking it easy a few times. You get his answer and then you get some of our linemen out there and see how he does.

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