Clanram Fans Reality Check!!!!!!!!!

[Dominating D]

Amazing how many of you think you can evaluate talent. Suh is better than McCoy? Really, they both play a position that the value of the player rarely reflects in your so called stats. The truth are both players are very talented and in the right system base on strengths the players around them will benefit.

The QB is the most valuable player on the field. Try telling that to Ray Lewis, LT both of them, and the list can go on. Sure the QB can be the most valuable but it does not have to be. No matter who the Rams draft this year the face of this team is Jackson and he has earned that.

Next time you decide to put anyone in check I believe you need to have supporting evidence beyound a doubt or as far as I am concern it's just an opinion.....

Go Rams

[The Optimistic Lamb]

Amazing how many of you think you can evaluate talent. Suh is better than McCoy? Really, they both play a position that the value of the player rarely reflects in your so called stats. The truth are both players are very talented and in the right system base on strengths the players around them will benefit.

The QB is the most valuable player on the field. Try telling that to Ray Lewis, LT both of them, and the list can go on. Sure the QB can be the most valuable but it does not have to be. No matter who the Rams draft this year the face of this team is Jackson and he has earned that.

Next time you decide to put anyone in check I believe you need to have supporting evidence beyound a doubt or as far as I am concern it's just an opinion.....

Go Rams

I have listed my evidence for all 3 points, but you have yet to do so.
I have no idea where you are trying to go with the whole "face of the team" thing but all that is beside the point. Maybe you could use a helmet too. >>>

[Nick]

If you believe that Sam Bradford or Jimmy Clausen can somehow magically turn our O-line around then you are handicapped in the head my friend and there is a helmet out there with your name on it.

Maybe you could use a helmet too. >>>

Either find a way to debate this topic without disparaging those who disagree with you, or there won't be a topic to debate. Take your pick.

[Bralidore(RAMMODE)]

1. I tend to agree that Suh is better than Mccoy but stats certainly don't tell the whole story for a position such as Defensive Tackle, or any position a lot of times. Mccoy was a penetrating disruptor that was supposed to cause havoc on the line a lot of times and force QB errors. A lot of times he did that if it didn't always mean getting the sack or tackle for loss.
Suh was a DT that was a gap maintainer and runs stopper something which he excelled at greatly. What amazes me was his ability to also sack the QB while standing up his offensive lineman first and not even exploding through gaps. What doesn't get credit for Suh's sacks however is his Defensive Backs. The QBs Suh sacked a lot of times had more than the standard 4 secs to throw the ball which allowed Suh to fight through the double team and make the play. I'd rather have Suh because I think he can do everything Mccoy did and more but i see the value of both.

2. Your points about Quarterbacks has been stated many times with people who are Pro-Suh. Again I will reiterate. When this line was healthy with all our starters in. They did a pretty darn good job, especially in the running game. Before Bulger went down he had actually been sacked the least times in his CAREER up to that point of the season.

This past season Bulger got sacked a total of 14 times in 8 starts and 9 games played. Compare that with his previous numbers:
2002 (7 starts): 12 sacks
2003 (15 starts): 37 sacks
2004 (14 starts): 41 sacks
2005 (8 starts): 26 sacks
2006 *Best Year*(16 starts): 49 sacks
2007 (12 starts): 37 sacks
2008 (15 starts): 38 sacks
2009 (8 starts, 9 games played): 14 sacks

Clearly, CLEARLY our line has improved dramatically then from what is was since Bulger has been a starter for this team. His BEST year saw him get sacked an outrageous 49 times. Bulger was on pace to get sacked a career low 28-29 times if the line and Bulger himself had held up for 16 games (something that, as I read this, has only happened ONE time..)

To put this into perspective lets take Sanchez (supposedly has a great line), Manning (spectacular line), Rivers (awesome line), Rodgers (Horrible Line), Favre (good line), Roethlisberger (good line?)

Manning (Best Pass Blocking Line in football):
2009 (16 starts) 10 sacks

Philip Rivers (great line):
2009 (16 starts) 25 sacks

Mark Sanchez (awesome line):
2009 (15 starts) 26 sacks

Aaron Rodgers:
2009 (16 starts) 50 sacks

Brett Favre:
2009 (16 starts) 34 sacks

Roethlisberger:
2009 (15 starts) 50 sacks

These are some of the best Qbs in the games (and a rookiee thrown in for comparison) and as you see they all take their fair amount of abuse, save for Manning who gets the ball out super fast and has an unreal line. I could have posted ELi (30 sacks, 16 starts) Brees (20 sacks, 16 starts) but it wouldn't have changed anything.

Last time Bulger only lasted half a season (8 games) like he did this season he got sacked 26 times and that was with the great Pace still performing...

Guys lets not get it twisted and make excuses anymore, Our line was bad before but no more worse apparently then the rest of the bottom barrel lines. Our line now is drastically improved and if they'd have finished the season would have been ranked in the top 15 of lines in the NFL.

I'm not saying we HAVE to get a Quarterback now or that Bradford is a better choice for us than Suh, though i agree, all im saying is lets not spew out the utter bullcrap that he would get owned behind our offensive line because he'd take no more of a beating here than just about anywheer else barring he goes to New Orleans or Indy.

Rams Myth: Busted

[Dominating D]

I have listed my evidence for all 3 points, but you have yet to do so.
I have no idea where you are trying to go with the whole "face of the team" thing but all that is beside the point. Maybe you could use a helmet too. >>>

Maybe I do need a helmet because I fail to see how this proves anything? As I see it you have supported an opinion with stats but anyone who has played the game, coached the game, or is a educated observer understands that stats alone do not translate into production in the next level. If stats are the only important factor then why do we not see more division 2 and 3 players selected on draft day?

Next, lets tackle the combine workout.... One name here Gholsten....Nuff said....

So who are you exactly putting in check? Do you not have to be right to do so and just because you said it does not mean it's right. Show me some credentials that support you have a long history of evaluating talent and getting it right then maybe I can give you more credit. Until then it's just another opinion.

Go Rams

1) McCoy is NOT better than Suh
Since the college season has ended, there have been no new developments between Suh and McCoy. Suh still has 212 tackles, 4 interceptions, 23 sacks, 6 blocked kicks, and 2 TD’s. G. McCoy still has only 77 tackles, 1 interception, 14 sacks, 1 blocked kick, and grand total of 0 TD’s. I might also remind you that Suh was being double teamed all the time, while McCoy was occasionally.
As for the combine Suh was .03 seconds behind McCoy in the 40 yard dash. Woop-di-dam-do. But what he “lacked” in speed he made up for on the bench press. Suh completed 32 reps while McCoy only managed 23 reps. Conclusion? Suh is a monster who has consistently shown he is more productive than Gerald McCoy. Eat it.

[RockinRam]

#2 Qb Argument:

A Qb is the most valuable player on the field and the most vulnerable player. Stafford is a prime example of a good Qb rendered almost ineffective because of a weak O-line. This is the example the Rams fans would like to follow? The Lions?

Asinine.

Yes, because

1) Our o-line is horrible

2) We can't improve on it


Really?


Our o-line is not that bad. Open your eyes. The reason why most people think that our line was bad last year was because during the last part of the season, we had ONE HEALTHY STARTER playing.

Next year, our line is going to be solid, with the addition of one more player.


Also, the Lion's O-line is terrible compared to ours.

[PeoriaRam]

Yes, because


Next year, our line is going to be solid, with the addition of one more player.

Our offensive line is not solid. We have a good Center. Otherwise...Barron is a liability who takes plays off at annoyingly inconvenient times, or takes stupid, drive-killing penalties at other. Jason Smith may become a good tackle. However, after having him miss half the season following as innocent looking a concussion as there could be, I am legitimately concerned about his durability; specifically I am concerned that another head blow could leave him a gibbering idiot who can only communicate through a "Steven Hawking" voice transmitter. We currently have a hole at one of the Guard positions that remains to be filled. Jacob Bell, our other guard, needs to put together three or four more consecutive good seasons for me to forget how atrociously horrible his 2008 season was and put him into the "solid" capability. (I must repeat. He was statistically the worst lineman in the NFL in 2008)

[turbofargo]

Bradford could be Peyton's equal and better and it wouldn't matter. Lot of the people blame the O line, but from what I saw the QB, whoever it was, had no one to throw it too. The WRs were dessimated with injuries and even when all healthy no CB was going to be striken with fear.

It is why I rather take a beast with Suh, get a true game changer, then Tate or whoever at WR, Shore up a lot and get one of the QBs in next year's draft whom will still be there for us to get. I still see another year before it really gets turned around so we will be in the running.

So Suh, WRs, and whatever holes, then next year J Lockler, or the other two that will change us back to where we were ten years ago.

[The Optimistic Lamb]

This past season Bulger got sacked a total of 14 times in 8 starts and 9 games played.

Our line now is drastically improved and if they'd have finished the season would have been ranked in the top 15 of lines in the NFL.

Skewd Statistics...lol

FOWL

How come you didn't add up ALL the sacks this season? You are only counting the games Bulger started, before he got hurt... Bulger was sacked 14 times until he messed up his shoulder and leg, and Boller was sacked 17 times until he hurt his thigh, and Keith Null came in and was sacked 13 times until he got banged up too... and this is what you call a good offensive line?

14+17+13 = 44 sacks!!!

[Nick_Weasel]

I thought you were supposed to be the optimistic lamb...

[Goldenfleece]

I straight up disagree with this Golden Fleece. Warner had a freak accident and Bulger's play has declined from the accumulated years of physical abuse and the psychological pounding. Don't make Bulger your scapegoat for a crappy team.

Oh, he's not the only one to blame, but he's not off the hook, either. Any quarterback will play better when given more time, but good quarterbacks don't become terrible when their line gets worse. John Elway was the most sacked quarterback in history.

Here are some stats to illustrate my point about the line being bad for as long as Bulger has been starting:

Year | Bulger's QB rating | Sacks Rams allowed that season
2003 | 81.4 | 43
2004 | 93.7 | 50
2005 | 94.4 | 46
2006 | 92.9 | 49
2007 | 70.3 | 48
2008 | 71.4 | 45
2009 | 70.7 | 44

[Bar-bq]

Our offensive line is not solid. We have a good Center. Otherwise...Barron is a liability who takes plays off at annoyingly inconvenient times, or takes stupid, drive-killing penalties at other. Jason Smith may become a good tackle. However, after having him miss half the season following as innocent looking a concussion as there could be, I am legitimately concerned about his durability; specifically I am concerned that another head blow could leave him a gibbering idiot who can only communicate through a "Steven Hawking" voice transmitter. We currently have a hole at one of the Guard positions that remains to be filled. Jacob Bell, our other guard, needs to put together three or four more consecutive good seasons for me to forget how atrociously horrible his 2008 season was and put him into the "solid" capability. (I must repeat. He was statistically the worst lineman in the NFL in 2008)

I find this interesting. If you don't mind me saying, it's a very glass half empty approach to the upcoming season. I'd like to rest assured that there are some real positives along the OL to take into next season.

The first is Jason Brown. I've heard his pro bowl alternate status dismissed because there were a number of players who pulled out of the game. To the best of my knowledge, the only center to pull out was Andre Gurode from Dallas. Popularity contests aside, Brown was the only Rams OL to start all sixteen games last season. He played very well very regularly and I'd like to think he'll have no trouble establishing a rhythm with whichever Quarterback the Rams go with next season.

The second reason is that we no longer have Richie Incognito wearing the horns. What's more, we have the ability to search for a legitimate replacement if we don't have one already on the roster in Adam Goldberg (see below). Incognito was a good run blocker, but lackluster against the pass and proved time and time again that he did not have the restraint necessary to play in the NFL. Goodbye ejections for unsportsmanlike conduct and goodbye drive killing penalties from the right guard position. You will not be missed.

I quite pleased with the performance of Adam Goldberg and Jacob Bell last season. Goldberg proved himself as a really versatile swingman at guard and tackle, filling in for a number of players with injury. I'm glad he's back on the roster this season. He's shown steady improvement each year since the beginning of his tenure and is, IMO, our most versatile backup. Bell also showed promise. He went from being the statistically worst NFL lineman in 2008 to giving up just one sack in 2009. That's a pretty marked improvement, reminiscent of his earlier career in Tennessee. He seems to have put his weight issues behind him and i can't see any reason for him to regress this year. Have a little fath

I think the injury conjecture surrounding Jason Smith was more preventative than anything else. Would you risk your number one pick in his first NFL season to a further concussion? Knowing full well he was going to change positions at the end of the season? First year playing experience is valuable, but not as valuable as his longevity as a franchise player. That's what he was billed to be and I have no reason to doubt that as yet. My diagnosis is a slight case of Chicken Little Syndrome. Rest assured, the sky is not falling. Safety first!

If I have anywhere to direct my criticism it's at the number of penalties Alex Barron committed last season. It's not good to be consistent with that sort of thing, and while he is on the roster I will live in fear of penalties. The good news is that when he's not committing felonies, he's been a solid blocker over the last two seasons. I think that he needs to go as soon as DeSpags can find a viable replacement, but no sooner. For now, he's the best we have.

All in all, what I think this OL needs is to find a starter at right guard and then to keep him there. What we need is a little bit of consistency, hopefully staying healthy for a season. I'd like to watch what we can do under those circumstances.

[The Optimistic Lamb]

Oh, he's not the only one to blame, but he's not off the hook, either. Any quarterback will play better when given more time, but good quarterbacks don't become terrible when their line gets worse. John Elway was the most sacked quarterback in history.

Here are some stats to illustrate my point about the line being bad for as long as Bulger has been starting:

Year | Bulger's QB rating | Sacks Rams allowed that season
2003 | 81.4 | 43
2004 | 93.7 | 50
2005 | 94.4 | 46
2006 | 92.9 | 49
2007 | 70.3 | 48
2008 | 71.4 | 45
2009 | 70.7 | 44

I wish Bulger had more fight and grit in him like John Elway too, but he doesn't. And I don't expect him to be John Elway. Seven consecutive seasons of countless beatings, devastating loses, sacrificing his health, years, and then blame him for our misfortune all the while expecting him to maintain a competitive attitiude seems like more man than Bulger is capable of.

I don't necessarily like it, but I can't blame him for giving up.

If this shows anything, it shows that we need to be careful about who we entrust the future of the franchise too. The next Qb we take should be tough, should be a leader, and should be well protected so that we do not repeat history and wind up with another Marc Bulger.