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Thread: A clarification, for the draft season.

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    A clarification, for the draft season.

    YouTube videos are not "tape".

    You have not watched "tape" on any player. You have watched YouTube (or similar) highlight videos.

    Unless you have access to coaches film, which you don't, please stop saying you've watched "tape" on a player. You haven't.


    ---sigh--- that feels better.
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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    So, what you're saying is... this does NOT qualify?

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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    True, but certainly watching guys play during the season, or in youtube stuff IS useful in making ones own judgements on players, especially where the scouts ratings are close.

    I tend to trust what the guys getting paid to scout players have to say, especially in rating the top 50 players.

    Now, with later picks, it's just as big a crapshoot for the real guys as it is for fans, but the scouts and GMs and coaches have possibly met the player and know he is not a guy one would want on their team, even if they bring some talent.

    Despite what GMs say, those forty times and combine workouts count a lot when drafting the first day or two.

    The combine will see players zoom up to the top 50, and others drop like rocks.

    Every pass rusher that runs under 4.6 will move up for sure.

    Guys who bench press off the board at DT will also rise.

    The CB and WR rankings will start to mirror the forty and shuttle times.

    The long armed linemen will rise, the sort armed will fall.

    College OTs will get projected inside for sure .

    Safeties who run fast , jump far and high, with size will get a lot of attention as sure first rpound picks.

    Same same, every year, way before Youtube existed to help draftniks actually get a look at a guy who isn't on national TV every week playing football.

    Seems like a good thing to a guy like me, who started being an obsessed draftnik befoe it had a name, in 1970 without even Joel Buchsbaum out there to get any info on players.

    You don't need a coaches tape to see how well linemen move and block.

    You don't need it to see a WR one on one downfield against a CB.

    It's absolutely a necessity to rate QBs, WRs on route running, how LBs an safeties react and get downfield, and stuff where one needs to see al 22 players at once on a play.

    Now that we have slow motion HD recordings, the difference between what coaches can see and any fan can look at over and over is far smaller than it once was.
    Barry Waller

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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    My point simplified:

    Some kid with YouTube does not equate to a professional football guy with professional football resources.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    According to YouTube, the greatest running back of all time is Noel Devine.
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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    There's a difference between watching cut-ups (tape) and watching highlights.


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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    There's a difference between watching cut-ups (tape) and watching highlights.
    The difference is between those and what actual football men use to evaluate players.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    There's a difference between watching cut-ups (tape) and watching highlights.
    I like checking out the "all plays of" a particular player during a game. It gives a great perspective that you usually miss out on when watching the game normally. The last one I checked out was Clowney against Tennessee. It was great to see snap after snap close together to really get a feel for just how fast he gets off the LOS compared to his counterparts.

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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    I don't know if I've used the phrase "watching tape" to describe anything I've done as it relates to watching college players in preparation for the draft. I try not to use the term because, frankly, I think it sounds pompous. But I'm human, and it wouldn't surprise me if I've slipped in saying it before. I'm sure I sounded pompous, if I did.

    Obviously, when forming opinions about a player, watching something is better than watching nothing. And we live in a time right now when there is a lot of information and resources at our disposal as fans, which is great and only helps make us more informed. But no group of professional scouts sits down in the film room to watch tape, pulls up YouTube, and hits the full-screen button.

    The gap between what fans presently have access to and what scouts and personnel people use to evaluate may be closing compared to where it has been in the past, but it's still significant enough that fans shouldn't let their egos inflate just because they watched someone's uploaded game broadcast angle with a focus on a certain prospect.

    I tend to venture more towards what Barry alluded to earlier - I try to watch as much as I can to help shape my opinions, but knowing that I as a fan have limitations in both knowledge and resources, I also make it a point to seek out and consider what's being said by those with superior advantages in both of those categories.
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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    The difference is between those and what actual football men use to evaluate players.
    Of course there is a difference. The NFL guys get All-22, lucky scumbags. Outside of that it's no different. I think the biggest difference is not the "tape" per se, but not everyone knows what to look for. It's not easy to evaluate players that's for sure. I miss many things while doing it but I feel like I'm pretty good at it.


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    I don't know about you guys, but if I watched as much tape as the professionals, I'd have no time for my actual job.

    I watch some games, some highlights, some Combine and Pro Day coverage, and I read a lot. From that, I try to draw some rational conclusions.

    It's a hobby, and I don't pretend it's anything more than that.
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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    One thing that I think is completely incorrect to do when "watching tape" on youtube is evaluate a players ability in coverage.

    Often with defensive backs, people consider it a failure if the corner gives up a catch to the WR he is lined up against. Well maybe they aren't in man coverage. Maybe it's a zonal scheme. Maybe the CB gave up a long catch because he was supposed to play underneath with safety help over the top, but the safety never got there. Maybe there is tight coverage happening that we can't see because the QB doesn't throw that way. Or maybe the defender leaves a guy wide open but the QB never sees. Sometimes a player will pick the ball off and return it for a TD off a tipped pass, but when the ball was thrown he was well out of position and if not for the tip it would have been a 70 yard TD. People will see that as a good play by the DB, but I'm sure coaches will see he was out of position.

    You can't see those type of things properly on youtube vidoes, you need the All 22 film and to be able to identify each players role
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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    not me, i watch tape

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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    But no group of professional scouts sits down in the film room to watch tape, pulls up YouTube, and hits the full-screen button.

    The gap between what fans presently have access to and what scouts and personnel people use to evaluate may be closing compared to where it has been in the past, but it's still significant enough that fans shouldn't let their egos inflate just because they watched someone's uploaded game broadcast angle with a focus on a certain prospect
    As per usual, Nick has once again expressed my thoughts better than I could.

    It's just a pet peeve of mine.....the "Holiday Inn Express" mentality that has taken over NFL fans during the draft season. I'm no NFL scout, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.....

    Everyone on this site, everyone you talk to about football, everyone that you watch a game with......they're all fans. WE are all fans. And a fan is a wonderful thing to be! But we are NOT scouts. We do not have the resources nor the skills nor the talents nor the experiences to truly scout these prospects. We can and should share and discuss our lay opinions on the prospects, but it is ridiculous to express our opinion, then attempt to bolster it by saying we've seen tape on the player (or any facsimilie thereof). As if A) our viewing options are on par with an NFL team's options, and B) we know what we're even looking at. On both counts.....we don't.
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    Re: A clarification, for the draft season.

    I read more about players then watch games. When I watch I like to watch games that have all the snaps focused on the player I'm looking at so I can see the good and the bad not just highlights. I never try and get technical when looking or commenting about a player because I'm not a coach and don't have a clue about what is the correct way of playing all the positions. I could look at a golfer and his swing and break that down because I play have taken a ton of lesson and have given lesson.

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