Contract Figures

[RebelYell]

I was wondering, what's a pro-bowl DT make? So I went to the 2010 starting lineup for the pro-bowl and then looked at their contracts:

Haloti Ngata $3 million per year
Vince Wilfork $8 million per year (high end current estimate of new contract extension)
Kevin Williams $6 million
Darnell Dockett $4.5 million

How about backups?

Casey Hampton - $7 million (just signed extension)
Jay Ratliff - $4 million
Justin Smith (they have him as a DT for the pro-bowl) $8 million

Pro-bowlers aren't always the best, they are usually seasoned veterans at the top of the game and several of these guys just got extensions.

If the Rams draft Suh, he'll be paid higher than any of the 2010 pro-bowlers at his position.

[PeoriaRam]

And Sam Bradford will sign a contract in the high $70 millions to possibly $80 million. Without playing an NFL down.

Your point?

[C-Mob 71]

Yup nature of the beast my friend. Hopefully they can get this worked out in the next CBA. That is if we have another CBA

[RebelYell]

Bradford will make around $12 million. Brees is looking at signing a new contract that is estimated at above $15 million per year. You see, the difference? $10 million for a DT is $2 million above the best at his position this past year. $12 million for a QB is $3 million less than the best (2nd best?)at his position this past year.

[Nick]

If the Rams draft Suh, he'll be paid higher than any of the 2010 pro-bowlers at his position.

So will a quarterback. Stafford's deal as the #1 pick last year averaged $12 million per year. Since he's being drafted a year later in an uncapped season, it's reasonable to assume Bradford's average will top that.

Here are the breakdowns of the quarterbacks appearing on the 2010 Pro Bowl roster:

Aaron Rodgers: $10.8 million per year
Donovan McNabb: $12.25 million
Tony Romo: $11.2 million
Matt Schaub: $8 million
Vince Young: $9.6 million
David Garrard: $10 million

So Bradford also will be getting a higher per-year average than the Pro Bowlers at his position.

Point being, it's a problem regardless of whom you take. If you want to argue that it's better to justify that money on a QB than a DT, that's one thing. But either of these guys are going to be among the highest paid at their position without playing a down of football.

That's a problem with the system, but I don't know that it's so big of a problem that it affects your decision making. It would seem to me that basing this decision on finances rather than your evaluation of a prospect and your team's need for said prospect is a recipe for disaster.

[LARAM]

That is why I have a feeling the Rams will do multiple trade downs if other teams are willing. It is insane that these players are getting thesehuge contracts......Absolutely insane.....Especially since it appears the front office is doing some serious penny pinching.

I like Suh alot......but from what i've seen of the front office, I just dont think we will be picking in the top ten if we manage a couple of trades.

[shower beers]

Not that it makes much of a difference, but this years pro bowl squad was less than stellar. Everyone made it in. I think even Spags took a few snaps towards the end of the game.

[RebelYell]

Aaron Rodgers: $10.8 million per year
Donovan McNabb: $12.25 million
Tony Romo: $11.2 million
Matt Schaub: $8 million
Vince Young: $9.6 million
David Garrard: $10 million

I notice you didn't include the two QBs who were elected to the Pro-Bowl but couldn't play because they were in the SUPERBOWL. Both will be receiving new contracts this year, just like some of the DTs I listed. Why didn't you include their contracts?

[Nick]

Why didn't you include their contracts?

Because they weren't considered part of the "2010 starting lineup for the pro-bowl" (your qualifier) or the back-ups, according to NFL.com's Pro Bowl roster, since they were unable to play. If you'd like to include them in the discussion, then Peyton's contract is paying him around $14.1 million per year. Brees' deal is paying him on average $10 million per year. So, Bradford will be signing a deal that pays him on average more than every quarterback on the Pro Bowl roster besides Peyton Manning.

Nitpicking the contracts I listed doesn't change the larger point of my post - contract size is a problem regardless of whom you take, either of these guys are going to be among the highest paid at their position without playing a down of football, and when it comes to drafting a player, basing your pick on finances rather than your prospect evaluations is (IMO) a recipe for disaster.

[RebelYell]

From USA Today:
Position
2009 QB
Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Manning, Peyton Colts $ 14,000,000 $ 0 $ 5,720 $ 14,005,720 $ 21,205,718
McNabb, Donovan Eagles $ 9,200,000 $ 0 $ 3,307,280 $ 12,507,280 $ 16,773,950
Cassel, Matt Chiefs $ 5,000,000 $ 0 $ 10,005,200 $ 15,005,200 $ 15,205,200
Brady, Tom Patriots $ 5,000,000 $ 0 $ 3,007,280 $ 8,007,280 $ 14,627,280
Palmer, Carson Bengals $ 9,500,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 9,500,000 $ 14,300,000
Russell, JaMarcus Raiders $ 7,805,880 $ 3,442,800 $ 6,760 $ 11,255,440 $ 13,618,215
Roethlisberger, Ben Steelers $ 4,750,000 $ 0 $ 3,001,560 $ 7,751,560 $ 13,221,560
Manning, Eli Giants $ 7,500,000 $ 13,000,000 $ 0 $ 20,500,000 $ 13,066,668
Favre, Brett Vikings $ 12,000,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 12,000,000 $ 12,000,000
Rivers, Philip Chargers $ 6,000,000 $ 19,550,000 $ 6,630 $ 25,556,630 $ 11,541,630
Cutler, Jay Bears $ 14,944,090 $ 7,000,000 $ 100,000 $ 22,044,090 $ 11,534,999
Warner, Kurt Cardinals $ 4,000,000 $ 15,000,000 $ 4,680 $ 19,004,680 $ 11,504,680
Brees, Drew Saints $ 4,487,500 $ 5,001,000 $ 3,501,000 $ 12,989,500 $ 10,660,400
Schaub, Matt Texans $ 6,950,000 $ 0 $ 10,050,000 $ 17,000,000 $ 10,250,000
Ryan, Matt Falcons $ 5,000,000 $ 0 $ 2,907,280 $ 7,907,280 $ 9,907,280
Rodgers, Aaron Packers $ 680,000 $ 0 $ 7,920,000 $ 8,600,000 $ 9,652,500
Hasselbeck, Matt Seahawks $ 5,250,000 $ 0 $ 1,006,240 $ 6,256,240 $ 9,456,240
Garrard, David Jaguars $ 5,475,000 $ 0 $ 3,025,000 $ 8,500,000 $ 9,000,000
Anderson, Derek Browns $ 1,450,000 $ 0 $ 5,000,000 $ 6,450,000 $ 8,783,333
Delhomme, Jake Panthers $ 3,200,000 $ 3,125,000 $ 0 $ 6,325,000 $ 8,591,670
Bulger, Marc Rams $ 6,500,000 $ 0 $ 7,280 $ 6,507,280 $ 8,507,280


versus

2009 DT
Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Harris, Tommie Bears $ 620,000 $ 0 $ 7,170,000 $ 7,790,000 $ 9,090,000
Haynesworth, Albert Redskins $ 6,000,000 $ 5,000,000 $ 7,280 $ 11,007,280 $ 7,007,280
Rogers, Shaun Browns $ 2,400,000 $ 0 $ 5,000,000 $ 7,400,000 $ 6,573,333
Hampton, Casey Steelers $ 3,075,000 $ 0 $ 100,000 $ 3,175,000 $ 6,552,084
Babineaux, Jonathan Falcons $ 2,000,000 $ 0 $ 4,007,280 $ 6,007,280 $ 6,507,280
Kelly, Tommy Raiders $ 2,500,000 $ 3,538,000 $ 963,560 $ 7,001,560 $ 6,337,826
Jenkins, Kris Jets $ 750,000 $ 0 $ 4,500,000 $ 5,250,000 $ 6,330,000
Williams, Pat Vikings $ 3,750,000 $ 0 $ 850,000 $ 4,600,000 $ 5,910,540
Henderson, John Jaguars $ 4,200,000 $ 0 $ 200,000 $ 4,400,000 $ 5,690,000
Stroud, Marcus Bills $ 3,400,000 $ 2,100,000 $ 1,002,080 $ 6,502,080 $ 5,593,746
Williams, Jamal Chargers $ 3,900,000 $ 0 $ 1,006,630 $ 4,906,630 $ 5,306,630
Sopoaga, Isaako ***** $ 1,862,500 $ 0 $ 2,200,000 $ 4,062,500 $ 5,017,500
Ellis, Sedrick Saints $ 3,366,000 $ 0 $ 6,000,000 $ 9,366,000 $ 4,866,000
Dorsey, Glenn Chiefs $ 2,385,000 $ 0 $ 10,685,000 $ 13,070,000 $ 4,722,000
Peko, Domata Bengals $ 700,000 $ 0 $ 2,700,000 $ 3,400,000 $ 4,501,750
Hovan, Chris Buccaneers $ 3,000,000 $ 0 $ 6,760 $ 3,006,760 $ 4,306,760

[RebelYell]

Suh will be a top 4 DT.

Bradford will probably be about 10th.

The big difference is that Suh will be about 2x the 15th highest paid DT.
Bradford will be about 30% more than than the 15th QB.

My point was that you can get high quality DTs in free agency and significantly pay less than Suh. That's not a reality with a QB. If you can get a high quality QB in free agency, you are probably paying as much as Bradford is making.

[Nick]

My point was that you can get high quality DTs in free agency and significantly pay less than Suh.

Tell that to the Redskins.

In all honesty, I understand that if you have a great QB and a great DT, you're going to end up paying more for the quarterback. But I'm just failing to see a logical reason as to why that should be a factor in the prospect the Rams take with their first overall pick.

The Rams need to evaluate these guys and select the prospect whom they think is the best option at a position of need. If their choice is hinging on who is worthier of the contract they're going to receive, then they're probably already fighting a losing battle.

I don't want them sitting in the war room going back and forth only to say, "Well the quarterback is more deserving of that kind of money so we'll go with him." For the same reason I don't want them saying, "Well quarterback is the more important position, so we'll go with him."

If the grades are close, you can probably justify it. But I have a hard time believing the grades get that close without a big emphasis placed on the QB position and, as you've pointed out, the money that will have to be paid. And to me, if I'm trying to improve a team, those aren't the factors I want my decision to hinge on.