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Thread: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    Not necessarily, most of the Seahawks offense are made up of guys picked up after the 1st round and they seem to be doing just fine.
    I'm sorry, Vinnie, but this is a weak argument.

    The Seahawks have twice as many first rounders on offense as they do on defense. So if anything, the "most of the players on this unit aren't first rounders and they're doing fine" argument applies more to Seattle's defense than their offense.

    If you're using Seattle as an example, it doesn't support the idea of using our high pick on a defensive player. The last time Seattle had a Top 10 pick, they drafted... a left tackle!


    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    Potential problems with this theory...
    1. Saffold not resigning(very possible).
    2. Chris Williams returning and playing mediocre, much like this year.
    3. Barrett Jones not panning out(he hasn't proven a single thing in the NFL as of now).

    Sure, if all of this pans out, and our oft-injured lineman can stay healthy, we MIGHT have a solid OL.

    However, if we have THREE first round picks, I see no reason not to use just one to shore up line.
    Thank you for this.

    It's entirely possible Saffold gets more money to play elsewhere. In fact, I'd wager that's more likely to happen at this point than the Rams retaining him. I don't see the Rams ponying up Top 10-15 guard money on him, and I think he probably is going to get courted by a team that's going to tell him what he wants to hear and give him a shot to play left tackle. Even if he does return, he hasn't played a full 16 game season since his rookie year. I don't know how you count on him as a full time, long term starter going forward, even though I thought he adjusted and played very well when shifting inside.

    I have to scratch my head at the suggestion that the Rams need to bring back Chris Williams because of his play in 2013. Out of 81 offensive guards who played at least 25% of their teams' snaps in 2013, Pro Football Focus ranked Williams as 74th. His 28 hurries were among the ten highest allowed by guards in the league, and only seven guards in the league allowed more sacks. This is the guy people want to reward with a new contract and who will make the Rams' OL fine?

    Coming out of the SEC as a highly regarded prospect, Barrett Jones looked like a fantastic pick to start the fourth round of the draft. But between injuries and strength issues, he made no contributions this year. Now, this is going to be a big offseason for him as to whether or not he can contribute moving forward. While their individual issues couldn't be more different, I would suggest those who are already assuming Jones is going to start next year to recall the same fan predictions made of Rokevious Watkins prior to last season.

    Even if Jones does enough to become a starter on this line, there are/should be two other holes on the inside to fill if Williams is allowed to walk and Dahl is cut for financial reasons. And again, that doesn't even begin to address the issues at tackle. As you pointed out later, Festus, Long hasn't had a good track record of staying healthy, so it would be very risky to plan on him being a full season starter over the next three years for this club. While Barksdale did well in 2013, it's anyone's guess how he does next year or the five years after that. He came out of school with a reputation for not playing up to his potential and was waived by Oakland after just one year in which he couldn't beat out Khalif Barnes to start at right tackle. I'd like to think he's finally found his niche, but again, it's an assumption and a dangerous one at that.

    Simply put, there are a lot of question marks on this offensive line. Long is a big question mark over the short and long term due to his injury issues, Williams was not good and really should not be brought back, Jones is a complete unknown, the right guard spot is entirely up in the air depending on what is resolved with Dahl and Saffold, and Barksdale is a question mark because we don't know if his efficiency can be sustained over the long haul.

    The only reason this unit is being sold as good enough or fine by some is because that's the narrative that has to be put forth in order to support drafting a defensive player. But it's a narrative that at best is filled with a lot of ifs and at worst is hiding a unit that is in desperate need of attention.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    History shows that teams with dominant defenses and okay offenses win in the playoffs more than teams with okay defenses and dominant offenses, especially when those defenses create turnovers.
    What metrics do you use to define a "dominant" unit and "okay" unit in this statement? What window are you looking at when forming this conclusion? The last three years? Five? Ten? More? What are the winning percentages over varying time frames of "okay offenses" compared to "dominant offenses?" And vice versa, for "okay defenses" compared to "dominant defenses?"

    I'd love to hear more about this and the specific evidence that helped form this conclusion.
    MauiRam and Randart like this.


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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Neglected offense? You've got to be kidding.

    If I'm estimating correctly, we'd have exactly 6 rounds of drafting left, to address the offense if we so chose.

    So I wouldn't be ready to jump out of a window just yet.
    Totally agree. The Rams MUST get some top notch O line help FIRST. This team needs to keep Bradford upright and put points on the board. After they secure O line help, they absolutely must get some DB help. I'm not sold on the Rams CBs or Safeties. An interior pass rusher would be nice, but if they intend to compete with the Hawks and Whiners they've got to address the Oline and solidify the offense. First.
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The only reason this unit is being sold as good enough or fine by some is because that's the narrative that has to be put forth in order to support drafting a defensive player. But it's a narrative that at best is filled with a lot of ifs and at worst is hiding a unit that is in desperate need of attention.
    Bingo!! Best paragraph in the entire thread - sums up the situation in a nutshell.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Outside chance, read small like 10% chance, that Cleveland trades both first rounders this year. Even if they do I fail to see how the Rams would count themselves lucky to come out of a draft with three first rounders and managed to ignore the offense which clearly needs more help than the defense.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    Outside chance, read small like 10% chance, that Cleveland trades both first rounders this year. Even if they do I fail to see how the Rams would count themselves lucky to come out of a draft with three first rounders and managed to ignore the offense which clearly needs more help than the defense.
    I agree, if an OT is the best player available when we're drafting I'd have no problem selecting him.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    So, because people who aren't even in the Rams organization anymore had bad luck with high OL picks, you're ready to give up on the idea altogether? Is that your point?

    I personally won't let the unsuccessful selections of past regimes cloud my judgement on the topic.
    I've made my point on numerous occassions when it comes to drafting Olinemen with high 1st round picks. I simply would not do it unless our line was in dire straits and/or we were set at all other positions.

    Maybe my view will change as we approach the draft, who knows. But for now, I don't see it.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The only reason this unit is being sold as good enough or fine by some is because that's the narrative that has to be put forth in order to support drafting a defensive player. But it's a narrative that at best is filled with a lot of ifs and at worst is hiding a unit that is in desperate need of attention.
    I beg to differ on that Nick.

    The reason I say it was "good enough" is solely because of it's showing last year.

    And by the way, so we're clear, "good enough" meaning we don't necessarily need to draft an olineman in the 1st round.

    In spite of all the injuries to Saffold, Wells, Dahl, and Long, Zac Stacy still ran for nearly 1,000 yards in 3/4 of a season. Benny Cunningham even had a 100 yard game in relief of Stacy. Against the top defense in the league this horrible Oline opened enough holes for us to run for 200 plus yards.

    I'm willing to bet not too many (if any) offenses did that.

    Obvious adjustments were made in the second game and, and that dominant defense dominated us. But hey, they wouldn't be Superbowl Champs if they didn't have the ability to adjust.

    I don't think there's any question that Sam Bradford played his best stretch as a Ram, just prior to his injury behind this putrid Oline.

    And unless you believe he suddenly found a pair of nimble feet, and/or his pocket awareness suddenly overcame him, I believe the Oline had a lot to do with his improved play.

    Even Kellen Clemens played decent football when he got his chance, which is saying a mouthful as far as I'm concerned.

    Those making plays for Jake Mathews either seem to have forgotten those things or don't believe them to be significant.

    But even with that, I don't believe anyone here is saying "neglect" the offense.

    I believe we all realize the concerns on the Oline, though honestly, it's just something to talk about right now because not one of us knows what it'll look like come draft day.

    So for me, I stand firm in my belief that we should complete the defense first, until such time as the draft rolls around and it's become painfully obvious the oline needs immediate attention.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -02-10-2014 at 03:10 AM.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    I simply would not do it unless our line was in dire straits
    Our line IS in dire straits. As I stated earlier, our two best lineman from last year, Saffold and Long, are two major question marks. Even when Long returns, which will probably be well into the season, we cannot just expect him to return to a pro bowl level player who isn't an injury-risk. And that guy who takes Longs place when he's injured(Saffold) and played very well at guard is not even a Ram. Also, no other position on the line is a lock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    and/or we were set at all other positions.
    Haven't you been advocating for Clowney? The same player who happens to play at DE, the Rams strongest unit by a long shot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    In spite of all the injuries to Saffold, Wells, Dahl, and Long, Zac Stacy still ran for nearly 1,000 yards in 3/4 of a season. Benny Cunningham even had a 100 yard game in relief of Stacy. Against the top defense in the league this horrible Oline opened enough holes for us to run for 200 plus yards.
    You're really ignoring reality right now.

    The large majority of Stacy's yards were produced when Long was at LT and Saffold at RG. Long and Saffold were, by far, our best run blockers.

    Yes, Stacy had a productive rookie year, but you're consistently ignoring the fact that the two players most responsible for opening running lanes are major question marks.
    Last edited by FestusRam; -02-10-2014 at 04:16 AM.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The only reason this unit is being sold as good enough or fine by some is because that's the narrative that has to be put forth in order to support drafting a defensive player. But it's a narrative that at best is filled with a lot of ifs and at worst is hiding a unit that is in desperate need of attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    I beg to differ on that Nick.
    You can beg to differ all you want, but it's an accurate statement.

    It's supported by the fact that you snipped out the very detailed part of my post where I spoke specifically about the questionable and weak areas of the line, and instead just decided to fall back on the broad platitudes about how they performed good enough last year so it stands to reason they'll be good enough this year.

    Let's look at some of the things you brought up.

    Starting with the claim that the line was good because Stacy nearly hit 1,000 yards, what usually goes unmentioned is that he did it averaging 3.9 yards a carry, and in fact that dropped to a mere 3.6 yards per carry after the bye. Those are poor numbers for a team striving to feature a good dose of the run.

    Seattle may have been caught off guard by the Rams' first Bradford-less appearance and Stacy as a feature back in the middle of the year, but they certainly weren't when they faced the Rams again to end the season. So unless you think they're suddenly going to forget about him and get caught off guard again in 2014, I wouldn't be too confident in the Rams repeating the Week 8 production without improving their personnel up front.

    Next, while Bradford, Stacy, and the Rams' offense were playing some of their best football before he got hurt, it happened against two of the worst teams in the league (Houston and Jacksonville). When asked to do it against a playoff caliber team in Carolina, the Rams put up a measly 15 points and Stacy was largely shut down (3.1 ypc total, 2.0 when you take away his one long run).

    Beating up bad teams shouldn't be an issue; if we want to get over this 7-9 hump, the Rams are going to need to do better than they did in 2013, both in opening up holes for Stacy and in protecting Bradford.

    I brought this up in another thread, but according to Pro Football Focus, of the 41 quarterbacks who played at least 25% of their team's snaps this season, Sam ranked a very average 22nd in pressure percentage (or percentage of snaps under pressure) with 36.3%. That percentage is actually worse than what they had recorded for Sam's 2011 season under McDaniels, though his sack % from 2011 was much higher.

    Think it was better with Clemens and the focus on the running game? Not really. According to PFF, Clemens was pressured on 36.4% of his dropbacks, one tenth of a percent more than Sam. The numbers suggest the pressure didn't vanish or significantly diminish when the Rams shifted to a power running focus for the rest of the season.

    So no, those making plays for Jake Matthews (or Greg Robinson if you prefer) haven't forgotten anything. We're just willing to give more than a cursory look into what was actually accomplished in 2013 behind this offensive line rather than just brush it under the rug of "Well it was good enough!" Because it wasn't.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You can beg to differ all you want, but it's an accurate statement.
    Starting with the claim that the line was good because Stacy nearly hit 1,000 yards, what usually goes unmentioned is that he did it averaging 3.9 yards a carry, and in fact that dropped to a mere 3.6 yards per carry after the bye. Those are poor numbers for a team striving to feature a good dose of the run
    .

    How do you factor in Zac health? He was battling a lot off things down the stretch.First game after the bye Zac had 87 yards on 12 carries for 7.25 per carry. He got hurt again in that game. Benny came in and rushed for 109 yards and avg 8.3 per. Lets not forget that Tavon also had a a 65 yard run.

    Seattle may have been caught off guard by the Rams' first Bradford-less appearance and Stacy as a feature back in the middle of the year, but they certainly weren't when they faced the Rams again to end the season. So unless you think they're suddenly going to forget about him and get caught off guard again in 2014, I wouldn't be too confident in the Rams repeating the Week 8 production without improving their personnel up front.
    As mentioned above he was not 100 percent not that would have matter, they have the number one defense in the NFL. Only one team has won there in what the last 14 games played?

    Next, while Bradford, Stacy, and the Rams' offense were playing some of their best football before he got hurt, it happened against two of the worst teams in the league (Houston and Jacksonville). When asked to do it against a playoff caliber team in Carolina, the Rams put up a measly 15 points and Stacy was largely shut down (3.1 ypc total, 2.0 when you take away his one long run).
    You have stated how much better the Hawks offense is then ours, but they only put up 12 points against them. But they won the game because their defense only gave up 7.

    Beating up bad teams shouldn't be an issue; if we want to get over this 7-9 hump, the Rams are going to need to do better than they did in 2013, both in opening up holes for Stacy and in protecting Bradford.
    The O line is not the reason we lost games we should have won. Most would point to the penalties and inconsistent play. We gave up 31 points to the Cowboy and the Falcons both bad teams. We gave up 20 points to a bad Jags team and fell behind early. we gave up 30 points to the panther and 28 to the Titans. A basis rule of football, if you can hold a team to 17 points you should win the game.

    So no, those making plays for Jake Matthews (or Greg Robinson if you prefer) haven't forgotten anything. We're just willing to give more than a cursory look into what was actually accomplished in 2013 behind this offensive line rather than just brush it under the rug of "Well it was good enough!" Because it wasn't.
    No one has said the O line is as good as it needs to be period. Some feel we can get an O linemen later in the draft. Some here wonder if the only way to make it better is by using a first round pick. There are more drafts picks in this draft and there will be more drafts in the future I'm sure.

    Nothing on this team was good enough. We did not make the playoffs, but to act as if the O line plays was the reason why is a stretch.


    Here is what I recall about last year play.


    Plays that shaped the Rams' season: No. 5


    ST. LOUIS -- Four weeks into the 2013 season, St. Louis Rams fans had no shortage of reasons to be frustrated. While the offense struggled to score points and the defense struggled to stop opponents from scoring them, the special teams drew particular ire for an amazing knack for racking up penalties.

    Field position regularly favored Rams opponents early on and the Rams set a record-breaking pace for special teams infractions. The amount of penalties would yield plenty of options to choose from but perhaps none signified the Rams' struggles in this area more than a Week 3 punt return from rookie Tavon Austin.

    Trailing Dallas 17-0 early in the third quarter, Austin received a punt at the Rams' 16 and weaved his way 84 yards for a would-be touchdown. Of course, before Austin really ever got going, the all too familiar yellow flag had already been thrown for holding on cornerback Brandon McGee. Safety T.J. McDonald was soon penalized for throwing an illegal blindside block and any hopes of a potential game-altering play vanished.

    Even Austin knew it the moment he reached the end zone, dropping to the ground in exasperation.

    The special teams' penalty problems would persist a bit longer, eventually reaching maximum frustration for Austin in a win against Jacksonville in Week 5 as Austin quickly exited the locker room with eye black still on soon after it was over.

    The Rams would eventually get the special teams penalty problem corrected but the issue was a major factor in the team's 1-3 start.
    Please post a link to one thread where we all where talking about how our offensive line was killing this team. I can post multiple links about us all talking about how this team needs to grow up fast and stop with the penalties.


    Last note:

    Here is a link to Football Outsiders exclusive statistics. They have us as the 12th best running blocking team and 14 pass protection. You can see how much better or worse we are compared the other teams.

    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 OFFENSIVE LINES

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    I do agree that our Oline needs help somewhere as opposed to our defense, however I think our WR situation is just as Dire-- and the WR position has mirrored our Oline position for a very, very long time.

    Austin has shown flashes, however I cannot see him as a #1WR, not can I see him playing every snap I fail to see how he can

    1) downfield block well
    and
    2) at some point his stature will expose itself to injury.

    There really isnt anyone else we have that can dictate defensive allocation of players to.

    So, in summation, Oline and WR seem to be a priority IMO.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Sorry if this response isn't as detailed as usual; I lost the earlier one I was working on and am now find myself on solo toddler patrol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    How do you factor in Zac health?
    For the most part, I don't. IMO, if you're healthy enough to be on the field, you don't get to hide behind injuries as an excuse for what didn't go well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    As mentioned above he was not 100 percent not that would have matter, they have the number one defense in the NFL. Only one team has won there in what the last 14 games played?
    Which is exactly why I don't think we'll see the Rams come anywhere close to their 200 yard rushing performance without some serious upgrades.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    You have stated how much better the Hawks offense is then ours, but they only put up 12 points against them. But they won the game because their defense only gave up 7.
    This doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making in the part of the response you were quoting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    The O line is not the reason we lost games we should have won.
    The OL is not the reason we lost games, because it's almost impossible to ever point to one sole thing that wins or loses games. Trying to narrow down the cause of wins or losses to one specific thing is a losing battle to begin with.

    But the OL certainly played a part in some losses. You mentioned some examples, so let's look at one. I believe the Rams rushed for 35 total yards and Bradford was sacked six times against Dallas. Are you suggesting the OL didn't play some part in that loss?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    No one has said the O line is as good as it needs to be period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    My theory is if we can re-sign Saffold to play LT until Long returns, move back to RG when he does. Bring back Chris Williams at LG, and if Barrett Jones is ready to take over at center and Barksdale at RT, we'll be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    IMO an OL of Long - Williams - B. Jones - Saffold - Barksdale would be more than "fine"
    If they didn't, Rambos, they came awfully close.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Nothing on this team was good enough. We did not make the playoffs, but to act as if the O line plays was the reason why is a stretch.
    You're putting words in my mouth if you're claiming I've said the OL was the reason the Rams did not make the playoffs. But were they one of many combined factors as to why the Rams weren't post-season contenders? Absolutely. Though they were improved when compared to previous Rams OLs, it's still hard for me to imagine that's even debatable at this point, but hey, here we are I guess.

    I appreciate you posting the Nick Wagoner article, because do you know what Wagoner thinks the team's biggest need is? Offensive line. Even though the 2013 Rams typically had bigger issues than OL miscues, there's a reason guys who cover this team professionally - Gordon and Thomas I believe share Wagoner's opinion - all feel OL is among the top if not the top need for the Rams heading into the offseason. It's certainly not because the unit is "fine" or "good enough" as it is now.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You're putting words in my mouth if you're claiming I've said the OL was the reason the Rams did not make the playoffs. But were they one of many combined factors as to why the Rams weren't post-season contenders? Absolutely. Though they were improved when compared to previous Rams OLs, it's still hard for me to imagine that's even debatable at this point, but hey, here we are I guess.

    I appreciate you posting the Nick Wagoner article, because do you know what Wagoner thinks the team's biggest need is? Offensive line. Even though the 2013 Rams typically had bigger issues than OL miscues, there's a reason guys who cover this team professionally - Gordon and Thomas I believe share Wagoner's opinion - all feel OL is among the top if not the top need for the Rams heading into the offseason. It's certainly not because the unit is "fine" or "good enough" as it is now.
    What baffles me is the belief that we don't need any major upgrades this off season because of the performance of the line in 2013. They're completely ignoring the obvious.

    The line's performance in 2013 carries very little weight in determining the need for upgrades this offseason.

    Why?

    Because TWO of our starters on the offensive line in 2013 are currently free agents. Another lineman, our franchise LT, sustained a major injury at the end of the season and will not be ready opening day. 60% of our offensive line is unaccounted for. Furthermore, we are without even a SINGLE backup LT.
    Last edited by FestusRam; -02-10-2014 at 08:51 PM.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    What baffles me is the belief that we don't need any major upgrades this off season because of the performance of the line in 2013. They're completely ignoring the obvious.

    The line's performance in 2013 carries very little weight in determining the need for upgrades this offseason.

    Why?

    Because TWO of our starters on the offensive line in 2013 are currently free agents. Another lineman, our franchise LT, sustained a major injury at the end of the season and will not be ready opening day. 60% of our offensive line is unaccounted for. Furthermore, we are without even a SINGLE backup LT.
    I'm not debating that the Rams shouldn't upgrade the offensive line, especially with the injury to Long and uncertainty with Saffold. All I'm saying that if (and that's a big IF) the Rams were able to re-sign Saffold and Jake Long's recovery is going well, I'd be more than happy to roll with Long and Barksdale as our two tackles. Now we would still have to draft some other pieces (especially if Dahl and Wells were cut) but generally good G's and C's could be found in the 2nd round and later. Even though our defense played alright last year, our secondary was horrible and IMO is the number one thing to fix this offseason. I admit that our OL could use some improving, but I think a line-up of a healthy Long - Gabe Jackson/Cyril Richardson/David Yankey - Barrett Jones - Saffold - Barksdale would be a much improved line from last year. Now if Jake Long's recovery hit's a snag or Saffold leaves in FA, all bet's are off and I would definitely want the Rams to draft either Matthews or Robinson instead of Clowney.

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    Re: Could Rams luck out and get Clowney, Barr, and a stud Safety in the 1st round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    I'm not debating that the Rams shouldn't upgrade the offensive line, especially with the injury to Long and uncertainty with Saffold. All I'm saying that if (and that's a big IF) the Rams were able to re-sign Saffold and Jake Long's recovery is going well, I'd be more than happy to roll with Long and Barksdale as our two tackles.
    As you stated these are big IFs

    Come draft day, we still won't have a clear indication of Long's health. Chances are he won't be ready to suit up on opening day. Even if he miraculously is ready, you do realize he has ended each of the last three seasons on the IR, right? Not exactly a sound guarantee that he will come back and stay healthy while playing at the level his salary asks.

    I'm doubting Saffold resigns. But, if he does, he himself has missed a total of 17 games out of a possible 64 due to injury. He's in the same boat as Long in terms of "injury waiting to happen" status.

    I've watched poor blocking and OL injuries hold this team back for long enough. Battles are won and lost in the trenches, so lets fortify them with the best options available.
    Last edited by FestusRam; -02-11-2014 at 12:37 AM.

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