Dolphins begin contract negotiations with Jake Long

[majorram]

I'm liking what I'm reading in this post, would Love to land Chris Long, the most complete player in this draft, I would rather pay this chap the 30 Mill or so than any other!!!


steve:l

[TekeRam]

All I'm going to say is that if the Dolphins sign/draft Jake Long, the Rams absolutely must take Chris Long. If they pass on C.Long for Dorsey or Gholston, I will not be a happy camper.

Repped him for you Nick. I wholeheartedly agree with this as well. I still have my four person draft board, but the more I think about it the more I begin to think that I solidly have Jake Long above Gholston, just because I can't be certain what the Rams would get from him. You can't afford to be unsure of what you're getting at the #2 pick in the draft. You know what you're getting with the Longs. Yes, Chris' upside might not be as high as Gholston's, but that's because Chris actually knows the position, and has a football IQ now that Gholston may never achieve. Gholston could have a couple great years that outshine Long, but in 10 years, my bet is that Long is still feared around the league.

[TekeRam]

According to ESPN

Long might be one of several players whom the Dolphins negotiate with before the draft. In fact, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel is reporting that the team is also talking contract with Ohio State defensive end Vernon Gholston.

Better Gholston than Chris Long in my mind! I'm sure that he and Dorsey'll get their turn, of course.

[txramsfan]

Shoot, let's live dangerously and draft Matt Ryan....

[RamOfDenmark]

Very good news!

I don't believe it is a smokescreen at all. If anything (other than honest interest in picking Jake #1) it could be about signability - they want to test the waters and see if they can get a contract done on reasonable terms. They may try negotiating with other players if this doesn't pan out as they expected but the fact that they start out with Jake Long tells me that he is their #1 priority if he can be signed at reasonable terms. Based on my experience with the NFL this looks to me like honest interest in signing Jake Long and not some elaborate plan to fool anyone (at #1 you usually don't have to either - you just take the guy you want).

Very good news indeed. I'm preparing to say "Chris Long, Welcome aboard!".

[Rambos]

All I'm going to say is that if the Dolphins sign/draft Jake Long, the Rams absolutely must take Chris Long. If they pass on C.Long for Dorsey or Gholston, I will not be a happy camper.

AV, I will be stunned as well. Then I will say they better know what the hell they are doing. No pass from me on this one, we have to get this right.

[HUbison]

I hope we dont lock in on Chris Long. I am on the VG bandwagon. We need explosion not just effort on the D edge. If we draft Chris , a year from now we will be seeing 7 sacks from our DE and VG will have double that. We have a chance to get an athlete on the Shawn Merriman/Dwight Freeney level, and everyone is on a Patrik Kerney clone ..I dont see it. I saw Chris against ACC competition beat o-line on just effort. I saw VG in the big ten in big games beat the competition with athletic ability (speed and strength). PLease, please....someone in the war room hear me!!!!...I want to win....not just give good effort!!

Oh man, this puerile notion just won't die.

So now Gholston will have 14 sacks his rookie campaign. That would mean Gholston had generated the 2nd greatest rookie pass rush of all time (Kearse '99, 14.5 sacks)! Is that the point we're at now? Gholston is not just the greatest DE in the draft, but now one of the greatest of all time?

Let's set aside this fallacy that somehow Gholston is some superior athlete to Long. For the sake of argument, let's say that the terms "dynamic" and "good effort" are actually definitive of Gholston and Long respectively. It's not reality, but that's okay........we'll disregard that for the moment.

With that assertion in place, what has those "dynamic" and "good effort" styles got them over their past two seasons?

Gholston (26 games) - 86 tackles, 22.5 sacks, 30.5 TFL, 2 PD, 1 QBH
Long (25 games) - 136 tackles, 18.5 sacks, 28.5 TFL, 10 PD, 9 QBH

So with 1 extra game, the "dynamic" player in a position built specifically to move him around so that he can be a playmaker and avoid double teams managed 4 additional sacks, 2 additional TFLs, but 50 less tackles, 8 less passes defended and 8 less QB hurries.

On the other hand, the "good effort" oaf of a mule while playing the majority of his time being double-teamed as a 3-4 DE got to the ball carrier more, and disrupted the QB more.

But let's not let empirical data stand in the way of our YouTube decision making skills. Let's go grab Vernon Gholston because he has big biceps!

I give up! The entire free world is picking Chris Long ahead of Vernon Gholston at this point, but let's pass on him and take the one trick pony.

Reality be darned!

[Ramblin` Ram]

please be true..Chris Long and AC together on our D-line is gonna give me the horn!

and then you throw Little & Ryan into the mix.... pow!!!

just think, not so long ago it was Hargrove and Jimmy Buffet!

[moloch41]

Can't we just draft Jimmy Kennedy again? He's awesome, plus he's a high motor guy who pursues every play just like C. Long!!!

[TekeRam]

I hope we dont lock in on Chris Long. I am on the VG bandwagon. We need explosion not just effort on the D edge. If we draft Chris , a year from now we will be seeing 7 sacks from our DE and VG will have double that. We have a chance to get an athlete on the Shawn Merriman/Dwight Freeney level, and everyone is on a Patrik Kerney clone ..I dont see it. I saw Chris against ACC competition beat o-line on just effort. I saw VG in the big ten in big games beat the competition with athletic ability (speed and strength). PLease, please....someone in the war room hear me!!!!...I want to win....not just give good effort!!

Thank you so much 1906! Thank you for making me see the light and saving us from "effort" guys! A team of Merriman and Freeney and their 89 tackles, 16 sacks, an 6 forced fumbles is totally better than a pair of "effort" guys, Kerney and old man La'roi Glover and their 99 tackles, 20.5 sacks, 5 forced fumbles and an interception.

Oh yeah, don't forget that Merriman's been busted for steroids and Freeney's not exactly been stellar the last couple years once teams learned how to deal with his speed. Kerney just keeps on chugging with 8 sacks/year on average or 0.6 sacks/start. By the way, Kerney went to UVA too, so the comparison's pretty accurate, though I'd call Chris more of a Howie Long clone than Kerney. That's what the coaches say, anyway.

[r8rh8rmike]

Better Gholston than Chris Long in my mind! I'm sure that he and Dorsey'll get their turn, of course.

I'll be interested to see if Miami does indeed negotiate with Dorsey given all the unresolved health questions.

[Nick_Weasel]

Why do people keep suggesting that C. Long is little more than a "hard worker?" I don't care how hard you work, you don't make it into the top 5 without being an elite athlete. Did you see him at the combine, this guy is athletic as hell.

[Ramblin` Ram]

Why do people keep suggesting that C. Long is little more than a "hard worker?" I don't care how hard you work, you don't make it into the top 5 without being an elite athlete. Did you see him at the combine, this guy is athletic as hell.

they are in the minority and almost always in love with big vern..is like im in love with my girlfriend so i hardly notice the leggy buxom brunette at work!

[Goldenfleece]

Can't we just draft Jimmy Kennedy again? He's awesome, plus he's a high motor guy who pursues every play just like C. Long!!!

I don't recall Jimmy Kennedy being considered a high motor guy. Here's an excerpt from Dr. Z in 2003:

I like their second rounder, OLB Piso Tinoisamoa, who was all over the field during the Senior Bowl, but Kennedy, the top-ranked DT until Dewayne Robertson overtook him about two weeks before the draft, makes me nervous with his inconsistency. That's what they have coaches for ... I guess.

Note that even from draft day there was concern about his consistency.

However, he was an excellent physical specimen, as you may note from an extended draft profile of the esteemed Mr. Kennedy:

Has excellent size, width and power for his position…Very explosive out of his stance, simply shocking blockers back with his strong arm swipes…Has a tenacious, competitive streak that rivals that of Warren Sapp…Holds his ground firmly, keeping his leg base wide to properly anchor…Very quick to locate the ball and react to the play…Discards blocks instantly with his hand punch and shows great lateral agility for a player his size…Has superb body control and fluid change-of-direction agility…Explosive in-line tackler who easily breaks down the plays to engulf the ball carriers working in space...Rarely taken off his feet due to his superb balance...Has a sudden closing burst and above average speed to turn up-field... Can split the double teams and push the pocket...Beats blockers as he penetrates the gaps…Runs well enough to make plays on the boundary…Rips, spins and swims to disengage quickly…Knows how to use his hands to catch and pull blockers off their base and separate from his opponent…Has a great feel for the ball and when he keeps his pads low, he is the most dominating two-gap lineman in the game… Appropriately nicknamed the 'Grizzly Bear,' he uses machine-like precision, personal pride and intensity to crash through the line of scrimmage, sprinting in the direction of whomever has the ball…When Jimmy came to State College in the summer of 1998, he weighed more than 400 pounds. Changes in his diet prescribed by the team nutritionist, hard work in all phases of conditioning and strength training, and a desire to succeed have brought his weight down more than 70 pounds and enhanced his opportunities to become a dominant lineman…The talented and athletic Kennedy has a great attitude and his experience and leadership were essential for a talented, but young defensive unit…He has the size, strength, speed and skills to be a dominating and enthusiastic presence on any defense

So great strength, great speed, but inconsistent. Now between Chris Long and Vernon Gholston, who sounds more like that?

[Fargo Ram Fan]

According to none other than Marshall Faulk (last night)... the Rams WILL draft Dorsey. There was no equivocation in his comment.