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  1. #1
    RamsSB99's Avatar
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    Draft not as bad as some might think

    1. Adam Carriker

    Great pick IMO he was the best player for the Rams in the Draft on defense. He has more Speed, Strength, and Size then Okoye or Anderson. 16.5 sacks last two years. He was one if not the strongest players in the draft. He will be a very athletic DT and he will get sacks like Hasletts DTs used to get for the Saints.

    2. Brian Leonard

    I was not big on this pick. I wanted Tim Crowder DE Texas Height: 6-35/8 Weight: 272 40-Time: 4.69. I think he would have pushed Hall, and Adeyanju for a starting spot at DE. Like Nick has pointed out Hall and Little are 30+ and if Adeyanju works out we still need another DE that will start within a couple years. In the meatime he would have been a good rotation guy if he did not wind up beating out Hall or Adeyanju.

    3. Johnathon Wade

    I am not as upset with this pick as I am with the previous pick. Yes we lost Tank and Johnson because of the Dante Hall trade. But both fell into the third round and probably will not be quality starters if either ever does unitl year 2 or 3. Hall in the meantime will contribute greatly over the next two years. I have heard we could wait until a later round to address areturn guy instead of trading for Dante. But look at how long we have been without a quality return guy and how many times we have tried that strategy before and failed. As for Tank were do you put him when one DT spot is taken by Carriker and you have one spot for Wrotten, Glover, Kennedy, and Tank. As for Johnson they made their decision in the second that DE was not a priority which I disagree with. They must believe in Adeyanju who I like but even if he panned out we still need another IMO. This round was okay taking a flyer on a CB with 4.36 speed and getting a proven return man we have not had since Horne.

    4. (BETTER BE DEFENSE)

    5. Dante Hall 5'8 187 WR/Return Man

    Two out of the last 4 seasons had over 400 yards receiving. Has 11 Career returns for a TD (5 Punt and 6 Kick Off). Has a career 24 yard kick off return average. With a career 10 yard punt return average. These stats alone do not show his effectiveness as teams will alter the way they kick to him often giving his team better field position. Has held the position of Kick Off and Punt Returner Since 2001 with KC thats 6 straight years as their go to return man. Nice value for the 5th round pick we traded to get him and the swap of thirds.

    5. James Hall 6'2 280 DE

    Played in 14 games or more from 2001-2005 (5 straight seasons). Last full season was 2004 16 games had 11.5 Sacks. Last year had 5 sacks in just 7 games played. Has averaged 5 or more sacks over the last three years. He is stout against the Run and can get to the passer. Nice value for the 5th round pick we traded to get him.




    Overall, we got a starting DT, starting DE, Good Return Man, good backup RB/FB, and a CB prospect with 4.36 speed. I will have to take the wait and see approach and do the arm chair QB after this season. IMO we improved DT, DE, RB, and Returns. We still have to see how the raw CB with blazing speed turns out. Not bad.
    Last edited by RamsSB99; -04-29-2007 at 10:39 AM.


  2. #2
    Rambos's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    2. Brian Leonard

    I was not big on this pick. I wanted Tim Crowder DE Texas Height: 6-35/8 Weight: 272 40-Time: 4.69. I think he would have pushed Hall, and Adeyanju for a starting spot at DE. Like Nick has pointed out Hall and Little are 30+ and if Adeyanju works out we still need another DE that will start within a couple years. In the meatime he would have been a good rotation guy if he did not wind up beating out Hall or Adeyanju.
    We have another draft next year. I was not sure with this pick at the time. But the more I look at it, the more I like it. SJ was great last year, but I bet the Rams where not happy with the punishment to his body. ST just got better. Short yardage just got esaier.

    We got a guy the will play this year, with this pick. Hall and Adeyanju will be fine. I would still like to add a DE pure pass rushers on day two, if we can.

  3. #3
    keith m. klink Guest

    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    2nd round pick , #52 , i was not happy with this , i was sure we could have gotten a backup RB in the 3-4-5 rd spot , i prefered 4th . as soon as our pick went , they started taking my guy's , TIM CROWDER , JOSH WILSON , IKAIKA ALAMA FRANCIS, BRANDON MEBANE. and i would have been happy in round 3 , but 1 pick before us at #83 , caralina took CHARLES JOHNSON , remember the K.C. swap #84 for #82 . ROUND 2 WAS VERY DISAPOINTING TO ME .

  4. #4
    Fortuninerhater's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    I would've much preferred the Rams trade out of the 13 spot and pick up Clevelands' 2nd and maybe even a 3rd this year and their 1st next year over drafting Adam Carriker. Their is no way one man (Carriker) could have a bigger impact than that, even if he makes the probowl as a rookie. I am very dissapointed that we apparently passed on a desperate Cleveland trade.

    In the 2nd, after having drafted Carriker, why not draft another stud for the D-Line? Leonard made absolutely no sense to me. We could've re-signed Fisher and Davis to do what he's going to do for us. Wasted pick unless Steven Jackson gets hurt.

    3rd rounder looks like good potential, but is only here because Tank and Charles Johnson went just before our 84th pick.

    In my opinion this draft had the potential to be far more fruitful than it will ultimately be. If only we'd taken advantage of a desperate Cleveland team.

  5. #5
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    This is the problem with expecting the Rams to be able to or willing to draft high talk guys in the first few rounds. Everyone is expecting the Rams to draft someone that will turn into the next greatest defensive player in their rookie year.

    A player like that is rare, extremely rare and while our defense needs all the help it can get, we still can't ignore other needs. Could the second pick have been a defensive player? Certainly, but then who's backing up Jackson? Alot of you seem to think that we can ignore a backup for Jackson because he's amazing.

    Ever see what happens when Amazing is backed up by Nothing?

    There are plenty of defensive players left to Draft, are they the poster boys of the draft? No, probably not. Will they be the best defensive player in history in their first year? Not likely, but good players are more often trained and created than they are born. There is some raw ability in the choices we have made so far, ability that can be carefully crafted to fit the Rams defensive scheme.

    Some of the most reliable *good* players are the ones no one talks about in the Draft. They may not go on to be hall of famers, but you won't end up with a hall of fame filled team. You want a team of solid players and maybe you'll have to build players into solid players...but at least the guys we have chosen thus far have the phsyical ability and the mental desire to become solid players if they aren't already.

  6. #6
    RamsSB99's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    This is not a video game its real world. Getting a starting DT and DE and getting a FB/RB that will get several touches this year is not a bad thing. We did need a backup RB for Jackson. We also got a CB prospect that has 4.36 speed.

    As for Dante Hall he has accounted for a good chunk of his teams yardage over several seasons and I expect him to provide a good chunk of yards for us as well. If we had not traded for Dante and not swapped our 3rd and got Johnson a pass rushing DE. We would not have a proven return man and we would not have a CB prospect which we will need with 4.36 speed. We would have had Johnson instead who probably could not beat out Hall or Adeyanju. That means we would have a backup DE that would have minimal impact.

    Dante has provided his team the following yards from 2002 - 2006.

    Year Yards
    2002 2,120
    2003 2,446
    2004 2,236
    2005 2,283
    2006 1,894
    Total 10,979 Yards in last 5 seasons.

    Average yards per season:
    2,196


    He has been durable:
    Played in 79 of possible 80 games the last 5 years.


    His average yards per game:
    139 yards per game over last 5 years.

    I don't believe Tank or Johnson either one at our original spot would have made as much of an impact in the next few years. We also would not have a CB with 4.36 speed either had we taken Tank or Johnson.

  7. #7
    RamsSB99's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    I would've much preferred the Rams trade out of the 13 spot and pick up Clevelands' 2nd and maybe even a 3rd this year and their 1st next year over drafting Adam Carriker. Their is no way one man (Carriker) could have a bigger impact than that, even if he makes the probowl as a rookie. I am very dissapointed that we apparently passed on a desperate Cleveland trade.
    I don't see how we can make that judgement. IMO Carriker was the highest defensive player on our board and he fell to us. He will be an impact player eventually at a position we have sorely been needing an impact player. So we would pass on the highest need with the highest person on our board for what a second and third this year. Which would most likely contain players that will not make an impact this year and be gambles on if they would in the future. The second round this year was thin in the defensive area IMO. Next year we would get a first which who knows what position. What if no impact players on D fell to us at that position. Everyone would be saying we should have taken the impact defensive player when we had a shot. Also we would be a worse team this year without Carriker and with some 2nd or 3rd bum.

    Biggest Area of Need DT
    + Highest Defensive Player on the Rams Board Adam Carriker
    ___________________________________________________
    PROBLEM SOLVED (NO LONGER BIGGEST AREA OF NEED)

    Took several years to solve the problem. Not since FARR have we had a pass rushing DT like Carriker.

  8. #8
    Fortuninerhater's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    You are certainly welcome to your opinion SB99, but it doesn't change one thing I said. I still and always will stand by the fact that if the Browns called the Rams offering their 2nd, next years 1st and who knows what else, I would've jumped all over it.

    With that 2nd I would've likely lured Jenkins away from Carolina plus had my own 2nd to do with what I pleased, and not to mention would've had a likely top 10 pick as well as my own 1st in next years draft.

    Given that, there's no way you can make an arguement that would benefit the Rams better than that, by drafting as they did.

    So what, he was the number one rated defensive player on your board, all of that goes out the window when presented with the option I just outlined for you.

  9. #9
    RebelYell's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    Great teams don't have any "swing and a miss" picks in the first two rounds - ever. I hate all the gambles we've taken over the years in the top two rounds. Finally things are turning around. Martz (or whoever it was) picked Incognito in the 3rd round. Last year Wroten. This year Wade could be that same swing for the fences and hope we got talent 2 years down the road.

    Leonard and Carriker are NOT going to be busts. Huge character guys who will contribute for years. After all the horrible drafts of the past 10 years, I would think people would be happy for just having players finally instead of early projects.

    Shack in the later rounds is a potential gem to be our backup Tackle in 2008 and save the team some salary cap. Andy will be gone and this team will have an extremely young o-line.

    Lastly I think way to many people discount James Hall. With some solid rotation, he'll be a good edge rusher for another 2 years. I wish they had drafted someone here for a few years from now but we always have next year or free agency.

  10. #10
    RamsSB99's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    You are certainly welcome to your opinion SB99, but it doesn't change one thing I said. I still and always will stand by the fact that if the Browns called the Rams offering their 2nd, next years 1st and who knows what else, I would've jumped all over it.

    With that 2nd I would've likely lured Jenkins away from Carolina plus had my own 2nd to do with what I pleased, and not to mention would've had a likely top 10 pick as well as my own 1st in next years draft.

    Given that, there's no way you can make an arguement that would benefit the Rams better than that, by drafting as they did.

    So what, he was the number one rated defensive player on your board, all of that goes out the window when presented with the option I just outlined for you.
    Well everything you just said went out the window if you read Jim Thomas Article in the post dispatch dated today. He said it would have took a #1 and you traded that away. You would have to settle with a couple non impact players in the second round. Where Carriker will make an impact at the biggest area of need DT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Form Jim Thomas 4/29/07
    Panthers coach John Fox also intimated Saturday that Carolina would take nothing less than a first-rounder for Jenkins, a three-time Pro Bowler who has been hampered by injuries in two of the past three seasons.

    It is believed the Rams were willing to give up a second-round pick for Jenkins, but they ended up selecting Rutgers running back-fullback Brian Leonard with that second-round pick.
    One more quote from Thomas
    The fact Nebraska defensive lineman Adam Carriker was available when the Rams made their first-round pick at No. 13 overall lessened the need to trade for Jenkins. The Rams selected Carriker and plan to use him at tackle.

  11. #11
    Fortuninerhater's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    [QUOTE=RamsSB99;171245]Well everything you just said went out the window if you read Jim Thomas Article in the post dispatch dated today. He said it would have took a #1 and you traded that away. You would have to settle with a couple non impact players in the second round. Where Carriker will make an impact at the biggest area of need DT.


    So now if you're drafted in the 2nd round, you're a non-impact player???
    How ridiculous is that?

    You can't always believe what you heard or read somewhere. Jenkins is not worth a 1st rounder at this point in his career (particularly after the injuries and weight issues), and Carolina knows it. My bet is they would've settled for less than a 1st. Maybe a 2nd and a player.

    In any event, my point is, I'd rather have Clevelands 2nd and probably a 3rd or 4th this year, and their likely top 10 pick next year over Adam Carriker.

  12. #12
    kman is offline Registered User
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    to the all the peeps who dont like the leonard pick....you watch, he will become the crowd favorite..when you see the heart and all around talent this guy has, he will be everyones favorite player...you know why he chose rutgers? b/c his older brother torn his knee up and the only school that didnt take back their scholarship offer was rutgers, and years later he remembered that and went there...this guy has unbelievable loyalty and is so team oriented..he was getting heisman hype senior year and he took a back seat to ray rice for the good of the team..this guy was a great pick!!

  13. #13
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    I saw Brian Leonard play in person against a pretty good Uconn team at the time (They won the Motor City Bowl that year) I was saying to myself " Who is this guy " as he was tearing up a pretty good run defense. He's got alot of heart, something the Rams have lacked the last few years. A solid NFL player for years to come.

  14. #14
    Fortuninerhater's Avatar
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    I don't think anybody didn't like the pick because it was Leonard, he's an unbelievably good talent. For me, it was the fact that at that point, I believe we had better options on the defensive side of the ball, which is what we need to improve most.

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    kman is offline Registered User
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    Re: Draft not as bad as some might think

    i can usderstand people thinking that we had other areas more in need to pick, but honestly who's to say that timm crowder(thats what alot people i see thinkg we should have picked) wont be a bust or that kalil center? I believe we did address our defensive end need and center needs...those guys could be better than crowder or kalil...its not like we passed on a calvin johson- sure thing type- for leonard..bottom line, we need a backup for SJ and for a 2nd rounder, he is worth it..i really doubt that linehan has in mind for him as just a bckup..a 2 RB set with those guys would be devastating..

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