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  1. #16
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    I think all of this might be a forgone conclusion anyway. Jerry Jones was drooling over McFadden before the combine and then the guy runs an unofficial 4.27 fourty which they changed to a 4.33 which is very very fast. He is going to give the Phins whatever they want to get the Cowboys to the #1 pick to select McFadden and Chris Long will be there for the taking. Then we can draft one of the many good tackles in the second round or find depth in free agency before the draft. A lot of you are right J. Long would be a safe pick but which pick helps our team more? If our current o-line stays healthy how does J. Long really help? With a healthy o-line we dont need another lineman. We need to add depth to the o-line in free agency and then either get C. Long or Gholston to help our terrible pass rush. Also in my opinion it will be easier to find a solid tackle or guard in the later rounds rather than finding a solid DE. We need a starting DE we dont need a starting guard or tackle right away. There is also rumor that we will be pursuing Faneca in free agency.

    Just Fix It

  2. #17
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    I think all of this might be a forgone conclusion anyway. Jerry Jones was drooling over McFadden before the combine and then the guy runs an unofficial 4.27 fourty which they changed to a 4.33 which is very very fast. He is going to give the Phins whatever they want to get the Cowboys to the #1 pick to select McFadden and Chris Long will be there for the taking. Then we can draft one of the many good tackles in the second round or find depth in free agency before the draft. A lot of you are right J. Long would be a safe pick but which pick helps our team more? If our current o-line stays healthy how does J. Long really help? With a healthy o-line we dont need another lineman. We need to add depth to the o-line in free agency and then either get C. Long or Gholston to help our terrible pass rush. Also in my opinion it will be easier to find a solid tackle or guard in the later rounds rather than finding a solid DE. We need a starting DE we dont need a starting guard or tackle right away. There is also rumor that we will be pursuing Faneca in free agency.
    I hope we get Chris Long as most of us here do. With the Dorsey news on his injuries, Jake looks like the pick if Chris is gone. Faneca will cost a ton and we have no cap space.

    So I take it you would go with Gholston over Jake. Need over best player on the board. And both are really a need.

  3. #18
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    A lot of you are right J. Long would be a safe pick but which pick helps our team more?
    I don't think anyone disputes Chris Long potentially helps the team more, and if he's available, it shouldn't be any kind of contest between him and Jake. Chris is the pick. The question is what happens if Chris isn't there and the decision is between Jake and Gholston. That's where things get a bit foggier.

    Also, I wouldn't count on the Faneca rumor just yet. We're going to need the cap space first.

  4. #19
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I hope we get Chris Long as most of us here do. With the Dorsey news on his injuries, Jake looks like the pick if Chris is gone. Faneca will cost a ton and we have no cap space.

    So I take it you would go with Gholston over Jake. Need over best player on the board. And both are really a need.
    I would take Gholston over J. Long because a starting o-lineman isnt really a need is it? I mean we had a freakish amount of injuries to our o-line. I think DE is more of a need because we need a starter now. J. Long would be a need if Pace retired but he is only 32 and coming off some strange injuries. They say he is working hard as ever to comeback so where is the greater need? We can stand pat with Little and his 9 mil salary and Hall who really didnt offer much of a pass rush to begin with or we can draft Chris Long or Gholston and worry about o-line depth later in the draft. O-line is not a bigger need than DE. If we cant get pressure on the qb next year and we draft J. long we will still be looking at a top five pick next year. We need guys that can pressure the qb. With a solid defense and our starting o-line back next year we can be a very good team. Imagine Little and Chris Long or Gholston coming off the edges in passing situations with Carriker and Ryan getting push in the middle it could be a very solid front four. Now imagine drafting J. Long and starting him at guard with barron and Pace at tackle and our terrible pass rush taking the field. How does that help us? I say the only way J. Long helps next year is if we have a major injury along the o-line. I dont want to draft a guy number 2 overall just in case of an injury.
    Just Fix It

  5. #20
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    Leornard davis made the probowl after switching to guard for the cowboys. Also why do you guys hate barron so much? Last year I think he really matured and played with absolutely no help. He definitly cut back the false starts and I dont think he gave up that many sacs. All this while learning on the fly the left tackle position. All this happening in his 3rd season. I think a little patience needs to be practiced here with this kid. The guys is an absolute monster and can own even the most dominate de and has proved that at the NFL level. All he needs is a little more maturity and experience. You guys need to remember we have been absolutely spoiled with Pace and a guy like Pace comes around very unfrequently. Barron will play for 10 years at a very dominate level, just give him some time.

  6. #21
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    I would take Gholston over J. Long because a starting o-lineman isnt really a need is it?
    Injuries where hugh no doubt. So how long do you see Pace playing for us? Can you say he will ever be 100% after the last two years? Is Barron ever going to be as good as Pace on the blind side? When healthy how high would you rank our O line? Is it as good as it could be with the current roster?

    so where is the greater need?
    I would say on paper DE is greater, but the best player on the board would be Jake and he fills a need for the next 10 years, I will be shocked if he is not a pro bowl line men.

    If we cant get pressure on the qb next year and we draft J. long we will still be looking at a top five pick next year
    If Marc takes another beating we will have another top 5 pick but we will be looking for a QB because Marc will have had two bad years in a row.

    Just think if Marc has time to do what we do best and SJ having a hole to run through scary!

    We can get a edge rusher in round two or three and Little has just as good of a chance to come back as big O. Little had one sack, won't happen to him again, he will get 10 plus in 08.

    How about Barron and Jake playing together for the next 10 years for all the Barron supports?

  7. #22
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    I see that some of us are for Gholston or J. Long if Chris is gone. I was convinced by the guys on this board that J Long is the best pick. Like said before, we're not just drafting for 08. We're drafting for 10 years into the future.

    We all know Pace isnt going to last 5 more seasons at most. So why not pick a good player there? Our line WILL get injured, and we will have Jake Long there. Which means SJax has a hole to run through, and Marc wont go out with an injury.

  8. #23
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    Draft is more than 1st pick

    What I think people are missing is that the 1st round pick is not the only way to upgrade talent. You have to think about scarcity of talent. The question should be - is it easier to pick up a OT/OG either later in the draft or in FA or to pick up a pass-rushing DE. From all accounts this is a banner year for OL talent, with at least 5-6 OT's with first round grades (one if not two will drop to top of 2nd), and this is a lean year for DE both in FA and in the draft. So both OL and DE are a need the question is what is the best combo of how you acquire talent that will max the value. My sense is there is a greater dropoff of talent at the DE level than at the OL level. So if two players are close (Gholston and Long) then I think you go DE

  9. #24
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    In my mind it has to be Jake Long if Chris Long isn't there. We may be able to solve the DE problem with Justin Smith if we can clear enough cap money. Having a long term solution on the O-Line is a long-range benefit that we need to have. Remember, we are an offensive minded team, not defensive. Edge rushers can be found elsewhere, but blue-chip tackles don't come along as easily.

    Lest we forget, Dick Vermiel traded with Bill Parcells in 1997 to draft Orlando Pace #1. The rest is history.

    I share GC's fear of this draft because it will set us back terribly if we screw it up. That is part of the reason I shy away from Gholston.

    Go Rams!:r

  10. #25
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    What I think people are missing is that the 1st round pick is not the only way to upgrade talent. You have to think about scarcity of talent. The question should be - is it easier to pick up a OT/OG either later in the draft or in FA or to pick up a pass-rushing DE. From all accounts this is a banner year for OL talent, with at least 5-6 OT's with first round grades (one if not two will drop to top of 2nd), and this is a lean year for DE both in FA and in the draft. So both OL and DE are a need the question is what is the best combo of how you acquire talent that will max the value. My sense is there is a greater dropoff of talent at the DE level than at the OL level. So if two players are close (Gholston and Long) then I think you go DE
    This a great point question, is Gholston worth a number two? If we could trade back and get him makes more sense IMO. I agree the talent is deep in this draft for OL, but will we get a pro bowler or just a soild player. Jake to me is a Pace type player, will be a great player, not just a solid guy.

    I still find it hard to believe Chris Long will go one. I thought we would be reaching at 2 to be honest.

  11. #26
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    I would take Gholston over J. Long because a starting o-lineman isnt really a need is it? I mean we had a freakish amount of injuries to our o-line. I think DE is more of a need because we need a starter now.
    When was the last time we had a completely healthy offensive line? 2003? We did have a freakish number of injuries last year, but there's no way to guarantee we don't have any injuries this year.

    And again, why can't Jake Long start on this line in 2008? He could man one of the guard spots and then shift outside to tackle down the road when that job opens up, which could be sooner rather than later. Or he could challenge immediately at RT.

    I don't understand how people can automatically conclude that Long won't be a starter. If we take a guy #2 overall, we're going to find a way for him to contribute.

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    O-line is not a bigger need than DE.
    I agree. Unfortunately you cannot always address your biggest need with your first round pick. DE may be a greater need - that's not to say OT isn't a need at all, though - but at the second overall pick, I think the value of OT is better if Chris Long is off the board.

    The decision that needs to be made by people who make more money than me is whether or not the need at DE justifies taking a guy who is of a lesser grade on your board. Ultimately I'd probably be happy with either of them, but if I'm stacking my board right now, Jake Long is above Vernon Gholston.

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    Now imagine drafting J. Long and starting him at guard with barron and Pace at tackle and our terrible pass rush taking the field.
    So you're saying the only way the Rams can get pass rush help through this draft is in the first round?

    Quote Originally Posted by jquarando View Post
    He definitly cut back the false starts and I dont think he gave up that many sacs. All this while learning on the fly the left tackle position.
    I haven't seen the sack numbers, so I can't comment on that. But while false starts were down, the reduction was not significant, and according to my count, Barron was penalized in general as much this season as he was in 2006. Additionally, I'm not sure how much slack you can cut him for "learning on the fly" at left tackle since that was his primary position in college and where many projected him to as a pro.

    Quote Originally Posted by jquarando View Post
    The guys is an absolute monster and can own even the most dominate de and has proved that at the NFL level. All he needs is a little more maturity and experience. You guys need to remember we have been absolutely spoiled with Pace and a guy like Pace comes around very unfrequently. Barron will play for 10 years at a very dominate level, just give him some time.
    And people wonder where I get the impression that some Rams fans overrate Barron...

  12. #27
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    And people wonder where I get the impression that some Rams fans overrate Barron...
    touche', my friend.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #28
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    Quote Originally Posted by Bar-bq View Post
    GC, Great post.

    Barron had his locker retired in college. He wasn't exactly a penalty waiting to happen. For mind, he was, at the time, the second best OT available, behind Jamaal Brown.

    I don't think you can predict that a player will be a stud on any NFL team without watching him play a down in the NFL. The speed of the game is increased, and I think that's where Barron has stuggled.
    I agree with you on this, but why does C. Long automatically become a elite DE. IMO i think Jake is a safer pick than Chris

  14. #29
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    Re: The draft terrifies me, here is why

    I don't understand how people can automatically conclude that Long won't be a starter. If we take a guy #2 overall, we're going to find a way for him to contribute.
    I agree, if he was a guard and you wanted him to play outside, I would say thats not happen. But moving inside, that's an easier spot you have help on both side. It's like moiving a lock down CB, to play in the dime, not all alone outside.

  15. #30
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    Re: Draft is more than 1st pick

    Quote Originally Posted by ramhard View Post
    What I think people are missing is that the 1st round pick is not the only way to upgrade talent. You have to think about scarcity of talent. The question should be - is it easier to pick up a OT/OG either later in the draft or in FA or to pick up a pass-rushing DE. From all accounts this is a banner year for OL talent, with at least 5-6 OT's with first round grades (one if not two will drop to top of 2nd), and this is a lean year for DE both in FA and in the draft. So both OL and DE are a need the question is what is the best combo of how you acquire talent that will max the value. My sense is there is a greater dropoff of talent at the DE level than at the OL level. So if two players are close (Gholston and Long) then I think you go DE

    I disagree you can get great value at DE all over the draft. Look At Mark Anderson 5th round pick who came in and got 12 sacks as a rookie situational pass rusher. Other 5th round pick Aaron Kampman and Trent Cole. Leonard Little, Jared Allen, Elvis Durmervil, Jason Taylor, and Justin Tuck all 3rd or 4th round picks. All these guy i named are top 15 in the league in sacks except for Little who could've been a top 15 guy if he wasn't injured and Mark Anderson. I'm just saying you could value all over the place. This year if we take Long we should look at guys like Quentin Groves, Lawrence Jackson, and Chris Ellis

    What Alex Barron really needs is some good old Sesame Street. Good old Count von Count then throw in some Elmo and Big Bird for good measure and he will be good. Thats how I learned.

    Most you guys think Chris Long can switch from 3-4 end to 4-3. Why can't Jake Long play guard. There is a bigger discrepancy between 3-4 end to 4-3 end than there is between guard and tackle IMO.

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