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Thread: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

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    Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    " Dwayne Bowe's 5 yr deal with KC is worth $56M with $26M guaranteed. He gets $11M per year. We'll see if Wallace and Jennings can do the same "

    - Jason La Canfora (another one of AV's favourites).

    If this is the market for Wallace and Jennings, yeah I'll pass. Wallace may be worth it, but he does carry some risk. If we could get him to drop the demands a little bit I'd still be interested.



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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Sosa for Bowe to satisfy the fans and make good on that deal, what kind of numbers does he have to put up?

    Jennings was asking for 12 Mil.... Wallace will get 11 million plus...

    If the Pats let Llyod go I would take him for 4 Million as a stop gap rather then paying any of these guys that type of cash. That's just me I like the value meal.

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Sosa for Bowe to satisfy the fans and make good on that deal, what kind of numbers does he have to put up?

    Jennings was asking for 12 Mil.... Wallace will get 11million plus...

    If the Pats let Llyod go I would take him for 4 Million as a stop gap rather then paying any of these guys that type of cash. That's just me I like the value meal.
    Who knows? Everyone will have different opinions, but definitely over 1,000 yards and probably 5+ TD's. He's definitely capable of it. T.O had no trouble putting up big numbers in Andy Reid's system, so we'll see if Dwayne Bowe who is a similar receiver, can try to replicate them.


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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    For 11 mil a year he better put up Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald numbers

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Seems like KC is paying a lot of money to bring back players that lead them to the worst record in football last year.

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Seems like KC is paying a lot of money to bring back players that lead them to the worst record in football last year.
    Well they did have 6 players in the Pro Bowl lol

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    For 11 mil a year he better put up Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald numbers
    Bowe's deal is big, but it's not really on par with either Fitz or CJ. Fitz's deal averages $16 million per year, and Megatron's averages nearly $19 million. Both are over eight years. They are blockbuster deals for receivers, whereas Bowe's deal seems pretty similar to what Vincent Jackson got on the free agent market last year. This seems to be the going price for a #1 receiver in free agency, don't be surprised if Mike Wallace gets a bigger deal.

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Well he got what he wanted at least!
    April Easter Bunnies!

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    For 11 mil a year he better put up Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald numbers
    I must be getting old... I can't get my head around the value being created for a receivers on the market that can gain 1000 - 1200 yards and 5-7 TDs vs a young guy the get 600 - 900 yards and 2-4 TDs.

    11 mil per year vs 600 - 700 K for what? The extra 300 - 400 yards and 3-4 more TDs per year cost what an extra 10 million?

    Holt signed a five-year, $10 million contract, including a $5.4 million signing bonus, with the Rams as a rookie. Then he signed a 7-year $42 million contract extension that included a $12.5 million signing bonus. That's under 8 million per year.

    Holt put up sick numbers and did it for ten years at an avg of 7 million per.

    I just can't get my head around 11 mil per year for 1000 plus yards... is it just me?

    Holt retired in 2010 not that long ago.

    I guess I would rather draft and then sign my own player to a long term deal to average out the over all cost of his career vs paying 11 million per year,
    Last edited by Rambos; -03-05-2013 at 04:13 PM.

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Now that Bowe's getting big money I'll be curious to see if his production heads south.

    I don't necessarily expect it to happen, but won't be surprised if it does.
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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I must be getting old... I can't get my head around the value being created for a receivers on the market that can gain 1000 - 1200 yards and 5-7 TDs vs a young guy the get 600 - 900 yards and 2-4 TDs.

    11 mil per year vs 600 - 700 K for what? The extra 300 - 400 yards and 3-4 more TDs per year cost what an extra 10 million?

    Holt signed a five-year, $10 million contract, including a $5.4 million signing bonus, with the Rams as a rookie. Then he signed a 7-year $42 million contract extension that included a $12.5 million signing bonus. That's under 8 million per year.

    Holt put up sick numbers and did it for ten years at an avg of 7 million per.

    I just can't get my head around 11 mil per year for 1000 plus yards... is it just me?

    Holt retired in 2010 not that long ago.

    I guess I would rather draft and then sign my own player to a long term deal to average out the over all cost of his career vs paying 11 million per year,
    First, Holt got those deals a while back. The NFL has changed and evolved. Who would have thought the highest paid player in NFL history would have been Albert Haynesworth or Mario Williams?

    Even if you breed your own guy into a top player you have to pay them. Exhibit A: Dwayne Bowe, or Antonio Brown, Calvin Johnson, or Larry Fitz.

    Great players make a lot of money. That's the way it'll be.


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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    First, Holt got those deals a while back. The NFL has changed and evolved. Who would have thought the highest paid player in NFL history would have been Albert Haynesworth or Mario Williams?

    Even if you breed your own guy into a top player you have to pay them. Exhibit A: Dwayne Bowe, or Antonio Brown, Calvin Johnson, or Larry Fitz.

    Great players make a lot of money. That's the way it'll be.
    I'm aware of Holt played awhile back and I also understand that great players get paid. IMO the cost does not bring back a big enough return in my eyes. For a few hundred more yards and a few more TD seems like a lot of cap dollars spent on one player. If you cost average a players pay including four years under say a rookie wage scale like 600 thousand per year and then signed a bigger deal, like Holt did it makes more sense to me. That being said I think KC did the right thing to resign him. But he needs to keep playing at a high level and I think he will.

    Only time will tell if having the highest paid receiver like Megaton will bring a championship team or just a record holding player.

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I must be getting old... I can't get my head around the value being created for a receivers on the market that can gain 1000 - 1200 yards and 5-7 TDs vs a young guy the get 600 - 900 yards and 2-4 TDs.

    11 mil per year vs 600 - 700 K for what? The extra 300 - 400 yards and 3-4 more TDs per year cost what an extra 10 million?

    Holt signed a five-year, $10 million contract, including a $5.4 million signing bonus, with the Rams as a rookie. Then he signed a 7-year $42 million contract extension that included a $12.5 million signing bonus. That's under 8 million per year.

    Holt put up sick numbers and did it for ten years at an avg of 7 million per.

    I just can't get my head around 11 mil per year for 1000 plus yards... is it just me?

    Holt retired in 2010 not that long ago.

    I guess I would rather draft and then sign my own player to a long term deal to average out the over all cost of his career vs paying 11 million per year,
    You can't just ignore inflation and growth of contracts and how the NFL has become a passing league. Holt probably would have been offered around $15 mil a year if he was a free agent in his prime in 2013. A receiver who can get multiple 1200 yard seasons is usually a player who can beat 1 on 1 coverage whenever he wants and can alter the way defenses need to play his team. An extra 300-400 yards is also a pretty big percentage a player's total yards on the season so it is significant.

    The difference in the skill level required and overall effect on the team's offense of a guy who can get 1200 yards a year compared to someone getting 700 yards is pretty huge, so I would say that they are worth those contracts. Teams just have to avoid giving big contracts to average receivers and there are definitely question marks about whether or not Wallace, Bowe or Jennings will be pro bowl quality players over the next 4 years.

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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I'm aware of Holt played awhile back and I also understand that great players get paid. IMO the cost does not bring back a big enough return in my eyes. For a few hundred more yards and a few more TD seems like a lot of cap dollars spent on one player. If you cost average a players pay including four years under say a rookie wage scale like 600 thousand per year and then signed a bigger deal, like Holt did it makes more sense to me. That being said I think KC did the right thing to resign him. But he needs to keep playing at a high level and I think he will.

    Only time will tell if having the highest paid receiver like Megaton will bring a championship team or just a record holding player.
    Plus it isn't just the numbers that count. Asante Samuel (two years ago I believe) had more INT's than Darrelle Revis, does that make him better? 300-400 yards is a significant number, but not just that. Players that make $16 million or big money are guys that make catches when they shouldn't, make due when they are double and triple covered all game, open up big areas for other players.

    Take for example Calvin Johnson. Teams played him with a PUNT COVERAGE! He got DOUBLE TEAMED in the red zone every time!! 2 guys on the LOS! When has that ever happened before? Never.

    Stats aren't even close to the whole story.


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    Re: Dwayne Bowe got PAID!

    This sums it up for me. I think the pay scale has grown so high to a point where the return just can't be met. Vincent Jackson is what I fear with overpaying for top talent.

    Performance Based Value: Wide Receivers
    Peter Damilatis

    In this series of pieces, Pro Football Focus is hammering into the value of players. To us it’s a “Performance Based Value” number, telling you what players were worth (by our grading) in 2012.

    • It’s solely about what a player did on the field in 2012

    • Players are grouped by positions so their play essentially earns them a portion of the positional salary pool
    • It’s all about cap hits (these values are approximate)

    Let’s look at 2012′s most overvalued wide receivers.

    1. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals

    2012 Cap Hit: $14.5m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $2.6m
    Value Differential: -$11.9m

    Being one of the highest-paid players in the league, Fitzgerald could have been our top-graded receiver and still may have received a negative value differential. So when hapless quarterbacking sunk his production in 2012, he was doomed to lead this list by a healthy margin. Having never finished a season with a grade worse than seventh at his position, he was 61st out of 105 receivers in 2012. The league-leading 12 interceptions thrown on his targets resulted in a 39.8 QB Rating, the lowest of any receiver who saw more than 30 passes. It’s hard to blame Fitz when only 51.4 % of his targets were catchable in the first place. This goes to show how even the best receivers’ values are often at the mercy of their quarterback.

    2. Santonio Holmes, New York Jets

    2012 Cap Hit: $9.3m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $825k
    Value Differential: -$8.4m

    Back in 2011 we viewed Santonio Holmes as a good receiver, but the Jets decided to pay him like a great one. He did nothing to reward their faith, as his -8.3 grade and 1.14 Yards Per Route Run that season were among the worst at his position. Throw in his theatrical sideline antics, and it was enough to make one think that his massive cap commitment was the only thing ensuring his return to New York. Holmes needed a big rebound to justify his contract, but a Week 4 Lisfranc injury sealed his spot near the top of this list.

    3. Darrius Heyward-Bey, Oakland Raiders

    2012 Cap Hit: $8.2m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $1.8m
    Value Differential: -$6.4m

    Ah, the perils of the old rookie contracts. Heyward-Bey has done little in the past four seasons to live up to his seventh overall draft selection or his $38 million deal. He caught only 53.2% of his targets this season, thanks a 12.77% Drop Rate that was among the highest at his position. Scheduled for a $10.6 million cap hit in 2013, “DHB” will need a huge leap to avoid this list next season.

    4. Dwayne Bowe, Kansas City Chiefs

    2012 Cap Hit: $9.5m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $3.7m
    Value Differential: -$5.8m

    As Fitzgerald showed us, paying for a top receiver when you have a hodgepodge of quarterbacks is like buying a Ferrari for a teenager. Cutting his Drop Rate to a career-low 9.23% and surpassing a 2.00 YPRR for the third straight year was not enough for Bowe to outperform his franchise tag salary. His brand new deal sets a lofty bar for the receiver, but it’s a good sign that Alex Smith’s 70.2 completion rate in 2012 was significantly higher than the 60.7 rate of catchable passes Bowe saw from Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn.

    5. Greg Jennings, Green Bay Packers

    2012 Cap Hit: $7.5m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $1.9m
    Value Differential: -$5.6m

    Injuries and a crowded Packers receiving corps limited Jennings to his fewest snaps and lowest grade since we started charting games in 2008. However, the fact remains that his production has declined across the board over the past three seasons. He hit new lows with 10.2 Yards Per Reception and 1.28 Yards Per Route Run, and after being one of the most productive home run threats in years past, he managed just one catch for 27 yards on Deep Passes this season. Whatever team gives him a big contract this offseason will be betting on him reversing those trends.

    6. Mike Thomas, Jacksonville Jaguars/Detroit Lions

    2012 Cap Hit: $5.6m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $700k
    Value Differential: -$4.9m

    Thomas is on this list for having not one, but two teams pay him a premium salary for minimum return. With his 6.2 yards per catch, 18.75 Drop Rate and 0.47 YPRR, it took Jacksonville’s new regime only seven weeks to sour on him and trade him to the Lions. Yet despite lining up opposite Calvin Johnson and upgrading from Blaine Gabbert to Matthew Stafford, Thomas’ awful numbers somehow worsened in Detroit.

    7. Vincent Jackson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

    2012 Cap Hit: $15.4m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $10.7m
    Value Differential: -$4.8m

    Jackson is on this list not for poor play, but for having a salary too rich to outperform. He sparked the Buccaneers’ offense while earning the fifth-highest grade of all receivers this season. His 19.2 yards per catch was the highest of any receiver with over 20 targets, and his 633 yards on Deep Passes was second to only Calvin Johnson. As his cap hits decrease over the next few seasons, his value differential should only go up.

    8. Steve Breaston, Kansas City Chiefs

    2012 Cap Hit: $4.6m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $700k
    Value Differential: -$3.9m

    After starring as a third receiver for the Cardinals (let’s just call it “The Kurt Warner Effect”), Breaston was brought on by the Chiefs to hopefully be the complement to Bowe. However his final year in Kansas City included just seven catches on 152 pass routes and ended with numerous healthy scratches in the final month of the season. After being cut in February and reportedly considering knee surgery, Breaston’s next cap hit will be considerably smaller.

    9. Santana Moss, Washington Redskins

    2012 Cap Hit: $4.7m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $1.4m
    Value Differential: -$3.3m

    The arrival of Robert Griffin III sparked Santana Moss just as it did the rest of the Redskins’ franchise. A 68.3 completion percentage, eight touchdowns, and just one interception on the veteran receiver’s targets made Griffin-to-Moss one of the most fruitful connections in the league. However, the Redskins still paid a starter’s salary to a slot receiver who played just 43.7% of their offensive snaps. As his cap hit rises next season, the Redskins may finally decide that Moss’ big cap hit does not befit his new role as a backup.

    10. Wes Welker, New England Patriots

    2012 Cap Hit: $9.5m
    2012 Performance Based Value: $6.3m
    Value Differential: -$3.2m

    The franchise tag sets a player’s cap hit so high that even finishing 12th in our wide receiver rankings wasn’t enough to keep Welker off this list. Despite some early-season playing time concerns, the veteran filled his usual uber-productive role for the Patriots. He finished the regular season with 114 more Yards After Catch and 173 more Slot Yards than any other receiver in the league. Still, his 15 drops (not including another four in the playoffs) led the league and sunk his value enough to keep the Patriots from tagging him again.
    Last edited by Rambos; -03-06-2013 at 01:55 PM.

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