View Poll Results: Would you/would the Bucs make this trade?

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  • I would, but I doubt the Bucs would.

    34 55.74%
  • I would, and I think the Bucs would too.

    13 21.31%
  • I wouldn't, and I don't think the Bucs would either.

    4 6.56%
  • I wouldn't, but the Bucs would.

    10 16.39%
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  1. #31
    The Optimistic Lamb Guest

    Re: A Fair Rams/Bucs Trade Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramzee View Post
    As much as people would like to think Suh is bust proof, he is not. Very few prospects ever are considered can't miss, if any and I don't see why he would be one of them. Not that can't miss actually means can't miss. Plenty have those have been misses too. As great as a collegiate DT he has been, it could happen to him too.

    I'm so very sick of this argument.
    You dont pass on a great player by citing "what if's". Give me some frickin' proof to have doubt, otherwise it's fear based on no reason. Tell me about a flaw in Suh's game or character, etc.

    And just how many staters do you think we need? I think we need keystone players more than filler players. We have enough "B" & "C" players. We need to get a couple "A's"


  2. #32
    Ramzee Guest

    Re: A Fair Rams/Bucs Trade Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Optimistic Lamb View Post
    I'm so very sick of this argument.
    You dont pass on a great player by citing "what if's". Give me some frickin' proof to have doubt, otherwise it's fear based on no reason. Tell me about a flaw in Suh's game or character, etc.

    And just how many staters do you think we need? I think we need keystone players more than filler players. We have enough "B" & "C" players. We need to get a couple "A's"
    lol you seem angry. Why are you mad that he isn't bust proof? Would you bet your house on it?

    So Suh is perfect and has no flaws? Am I getting that right? First and foremost his leverage is a big issue with me. He played in a read and react two gap scheme at Nebraska. He was their NT. We all know he won't be playing NT for us. He'll have to move over to three technique (UT). So schematically, he's going to have to change systems. He also played under weight, at a self stated 291 lbs. Can he put on more weight? I'm sure he can. That's going to raise some issues with that knee of his though. More weight = more pressure on it. It's great that's he played on it so well the last few years but once a knee injury, always an issue for the rest of your life. Doctors will check that out.

    Now as for his technique. It's far from flawless too. His first move was not forward but usually straight up, where he would literally stand straight up, letting the blockers engage him (not the other way around and that's important) while reading the play. Typically he'd already have lost the leverage battle by this point. Now here's where that unbelievable strength comes into play. How does he disengage those blocks? With his sheer strength. Usually By man handling the guy in front of him.

    Keep in mind he played against some predominant spread offense zone blocking fronts. Those lineman's biggest weakness is against strength and power. Then gee look at what he has as one of his biggest strength's, strength and power. We all know that's not the case in the NFL. You won't man handle nobody at the next level. Hello Adam Carriker . You can't play with poor leverage and use just strength to get by. So yeah this does raise some concerns here.

    My question there is regarding the scheme and how it's played. Is this Suh playing this way naturally or is this what he was taught to do? Can it be corrected and coached out of him? Can he play with good leverage and beat blockers the way their intended to be beat when he moves over into the 3 technique? or is he going to play high, let lineman get under his pads and push him around like a shopping cart? I'm not saying he can't be a great player at the next level. Just saying he has some questions he is going to have to answer, not just one but a couple and that's the biggest one for me right now.

    As far as all the holes this team has. Let me list them all for you.

    QB <-- huge one right there.

    RB2 <-- Not only do we need a guy to spell SJ but we might be drafting his replacement here. Sj is approaching that unbelievable carry mark where RB's just wear down and no longer ineffective anymore. See: LT, Shaun Alexander, LJ, Westbrook, Jamal Lewis among a million more.

    WR <-- We don't have a true #1. Unless Robinson can prove he is capable of improving his game and staying healthy. That might be too tall an order.

    TE <-- RM is done. Fells isn't a legit #1. Definite need here.

    LT/RT <-- We need one of the two. They might rent Barron another year but magically somehow they manage to get a CBA extension done, he'll probably be gone. If not for now, definite need for next year. Not to mention depth here.

    RG <-- We have one of those capable of starting?

    UT <-- Need one.

    NT <-- Need one of these two. Unless you think Ryan is a starter? He might be one by default.

    DE <-- Need a pass rusher to replace LL.

    SLB <-- Vobora is the answer? No.

    WLB <-- Lenon is the answer? No.

    Those are the starting positions we could stand to upgrade, immediately. Chances are between the limited amount of FA and draft picks that we will be in no shape to address them all so of course, we're going to get stuck playing someone we probably don't want to and indeed will be considered under par. Probably at multiple positions. It's going to be another long year, with or without Suh.
    Last edited by Ramzee; -02-25-2010 at 08:31 PM.

  3. #33
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
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    Re: A Fair Rams/Bucs Trade Proposal

    I think we can all agree that no player is "bust proof."

    Its a question of who appears least likely to be a bust.

    In the case of Suh, one could argue that he appears to have an exceptionally low chance of being a bust.

  4. #34
    richtree's Avatar
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    Re: A Fair Rams/Bucs Trade Proposal

    I think you always make the trade if you only going down a few spots.


    Unless there is 1 player and only 1 player that you want at pick 1 -- you trade and get value and picks.

    In this draft if Bradford is the clear cut #1 QB head and shoulders above everyone else you take him, otherwise you get the extra pick and you still may get your guy at pick 3, 4 or 5

  5. #35
    BucsPirate1 Guest

    Re: A Fair Rams/Bucs Trade Proposal

    I just don't see a deal happening. As good as Suh is, the Bucs aren't going to sell the farm to move up and get him, especially with the chances being good you will take Bradford and McCoy will be available at #3. And if you do want Bradford you can't afford to risk moving down to #3, because if Suh is not on the board the Lions will be auctioning off Bradford to the highest bidder at #2.

  6. #36
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    Re: A Fair Rams/Bucs Trade Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by BucsPirate1 View Post
    I just don't see a deal happening. As good as Suh is, the Bucs aren't going to sell the farm to move up and get him, especially with the chances being good you will take Bradford and McCoy will be available at #3. And if you do want Bradford you can't afford to risk moving down to #3, because if Suh is not on the board the Lions will be auctioning off Bradford to the highest bidder at #2.
    There has been a lot of talk on here about a trade between the Rams and the Bucs, and obviously there are a fair few Rams fans who would want that to happen, especially if the Rams desire Bradford. But everytime its been proposed if been unable to see why the Bucs, a team that has a lot of holes, would want to give up picks alongside its first overall to move up a few spots.

    I think thats even less likely considering that if the Bucs stay at #3, they will end up with one of Suh, McCoy or Eric Berry. People all talk about the Bucs needing a DT, but they forget that the Bucs played a lot of single high safety and were terrible against the pass last year. Berry would be a good player for them.

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