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  1. #1
    Falconator Guest

    Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Hey guys,

    I enjoyed conversing with you guys back in April leading up to the 2008 NFL draft. At the time we were speculating heavily upon you guys picking Chris Long or Glen Dorsey and whether the Falcons would take Glen Dorsey or Matt Ryan.

    The "conventional wisdom" then was that both the Falcons and the Rams wanted Glen Dorsey - I never really believed that the Rams were going to take Dorsey but of course could not be 100% certain - I thought it was a "bluff" and it turned out to be so. Thomas Dimitroff(new Falcons GM) called Devaney's bluff - but the "prize" that the Falcons wanted ended up being Matt Ryan instead of Dorsey anyway......

    So, nothing happened exactly like anybody thought. In Atlanta, I think most of us fans are now very excited about Matt Ryan's prospects. Matt was very "steady" in the pre-season(through first three games) - not flashy but steady - he looks ready. I have no doubts there will be growing pains but he is very mature and cool under pressure. Our offensive line is much improved as well. With Roddy White and Michael Turner(who is straight up "nasty") - the Falcons offense will be decent. Not as confident about the defense. Anyway, back to Matt Ryan - in hindsight, he was the right pick over Glen Dorsey for Atlanta. While Dorsey is a great player - Matt Ryan will be too - I doubted it before but not now and QB is simply the most important position on the field - and #2 is not even close to the QB position. Sam Baker is also looking good for the Falcons - but we got criticized for moving up to get him on draft day. Curtis Lofton looks good as well - Falcons look right now(i know, its early) to have had a very good draft.

    Like you guys, I was concerned about Dorsey's injury history and I think with his problems this pre-season - rightfully so. Bottom-line, I think the Rams and the Falcons made the right decisions - and I am glad the Falcons did not "take the bait" on trading up with the Rams. I have little doubt that Chris Long can be a star and he is high character and high effort player as well.

    Would love to hear your guys "pre-season" thoughts on Rams draft and Falcons too if you want to give us your thoughts there.

    Good luck on the season - you guys should be much better this year than in 2007 - especially if your offensive line and Bulger play better.


  2. #2
    RAMarkable is online now Registered User
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    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
    Hey guys,

    I enjoyed conversing with you guys back in April leading up to the 2008 NFL draft. At the time we were speculating heavily upon you guys picking Chris Long or Glen Dorsey and whether the Falcons would take Glen Dorsey or Matt Ryan.

    The "conventional wisdom" then was that both the Falcons and the Rams wanted Glen Dorsey - I never really believed that the Rams were going to take Dorsey but of course could not be 100% certain - I thought it was a "bluff" and it turned out to be so. Thomas Dimitroff(new Falcons GM) called Devaney's bluff - but the "prize" that the Falcons wanted ended up being Matt Ryan instead of Dorsey anyway......

    So, nothing happened exactly like anybody thought. In Atlanta, I think most of us fans are now very excited about Matt Ryan's prospects. Matt was very "steady" in the pre-season(through first three games) - not flashy but steady - he looks ready. I have no doubts there will be growing pains but he is very mature and cool under pressure. Our offensive line is much improved as well. With Roddy White and Michael Turner(who is straight up "nasty") - the Falcons offense will be decent. Not as confident about the defense. Anyway, back to Matt Ryan - in hindsight, he was the right pick over Glen Dorsey for Atlanta. While Dorsey is a great player - Matt Ryan will be too - I doubted it before but not now and QB is simply the most important position on the field - and #2 is not even close to the QB position. Sam Baker is also looking good for the Falcons - but we got criticized for moving up to get him on draft day. Curtis Lofton looks good as well - Falcons look right now(i know, its early) to have had a very good draft.

    Like you guys, I was concerned about Dorsey's injury history and I think with his problems this pre-season - rightfully so. Bottom-line, I think the Rams and the Falcons made the right decisions - and I am glad the Falcons did not "take the bait" on trading up with the Rams. I have little doubt that Chris Long can be a star and he is high character and high effort player as well.

    Would love to hear your guys "pre-season" thoughts on Rams draft and Falcons too if you want to give us your thoughts there.

    Good luck on the season - you guys should be much better this year than in 2007 - especially if your offensive line and Bulger play better.
    Good to hear from you again, Falconator, as I,too, enjoyed many of your thoughts and opinions concerning the draft and all. As far as the great Chris Long/Glen Dorsey debate goes you may recall that I was considered a "Dorseyite" and therefore my remarks should be taken in that context.

    1.) With regards to Chris Long I'm sure you'll agree that it is very early in the process to truly evaluate his progress. Having said that I must confess that I am a little disappointed and somewhat worried from what I've heard about his play so far. After 3 games he has, maybe, 3 or 4 tackles and No sacks, or (even more troubling) NO qb pressures. Additionally, it was reported in the game against Baltimore that he was being knocked off the line on running plays. This concerns me also in that one of Mr. Long strengths was supposed to be his play against the run. While I'm sure he will improve with more time and coaching, let us not forget that it was alleged that he was one of the- if not the most- "NFL-ready" players to come out his year. I just wish I could have the same enthusiasm that you obviously have for Matt Ryan at this point in time. Oh well, time will tell I suppose.

    WHAT SAY YE?

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    KoaKoi is offline Registered User
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    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Hey Falconator... welcome back. Tho i must admit I did not take part in the April draft discussions you mentioned.

    I've noted the things you've said about the Falcons new prospects and think that's great. Ryan's play has seemed to be pretty steady for a rookie signal caller.... dare i say... Roethlisberger-esque? But on top of that, given the Vick legacy, I would think that with naming him the starting qb, and having Turner bust out some pounding runs, that it gives the Falcons a much needed "new face" for the franchise...

    well, enjoy your football season. here's to a great '08!

  4. #4
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Falconator, i live in atlanta and loved your pick of ryan. His preseason performance (notwithstanding the terrible throw and read for the INT in the first home preseason game which i saw in person) was excellent. As we both know, while preseason doesnt mean much, better that he does well than poorly.

    That being said, i think the falcons are making a terrible mistake starting him in week one. I think that they need to take a longer range view and not worry so much about filling the dome in week one until they determine whether they have a functional offensive line, a topic that is certainly open to debate at this point.

    I think ryan is going to be an excellent qb (think hasselbeck) IF they dont rush him and like all other qb's, if they can protect him and give him some kind of running game. I appreciate that he may be better right now than redman, although we will see what happens when the season starts. I just dont see the hurry given the magnitude of the investment and the rebuilding nature of the season anyway.

    Its a lousy idea to pull ryan from the job once you give it to him as confidence, both in himself and from his teamates. If you start redman and he does well (ie you win some games) you have lost nothing. If he does poorly, you at least have given the coaches some time to figure out the offensive line issues and you can bring ryan in with somewhat reduced expectations. If ryan starts too soon and plays poorly, are you not putting his future development at risk?

    The learn on the job theory is a very risky one in the nfl for physical and intellectual reasons. Its one thing if you have weapons and an offensive line in front of you. BUt if its going to be be drop back to pass and run for your life (see david carr) you can do a lot of damage to a qb in a short period of time.

    Best of luck with your season and ramming speed to you and your family

    general counsel

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  5. #5
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Good to hear from you again, Falconator, as I,too, enjoyed many of your thoughts and opinions concerning the draft and all. As far as the great Chris Long/Glen Dorsey debate goes you may recall that I was considered a "Dorseyite" and therefore my remarks should be taken in that context.

    1.) With regards to Chris Long I'm sure you'll agree that it is very early in the process to truly evaluate his progress. Having said that I must confess that I am a little disappointed and somewhat worried from what I've heard about his play so far. After 3 games he has, maybe, 3 or 4 tackles and No sacks, or (even more troubling) NO qb pressures. Additionally, it was reported in the game against Baltimore that he was being knocked off the line on running plays. This concerns me also in that one of Mr. Long strengths was supposed to be his play against the run. While I'm sure he will improve with more time and coaching, let us not forget that it was alleged that he was one of the- if not the most- "NFL-ready" players to come out his year. I just wish I could have the same enthusiasm that you obviously have for Matt Ryan at this point in time. Oh well, time will tell I suppose.

    WHAT SAY YE?
    Yes, definitely agree that it is "very early" to judge the 2008 NFL draft - very, very early - but I think its "fair" to have some "initial impressions". Regarding Chris Long, I would not worry "too much" about his initial showings but I do see your points and causes for concern. For a "low-motor" player the lack of production would be of greater concern. Long will "figure it out" and elevate his game - make take half a season or more and he will probably grow more in weight and strength.

    Maybe I am looking through "rose-colored glasses"on Matt Ryan right now but I really think he is going to develop into a "great QB"........I cannot "prove" it - its just a "feeling" based partly on how he's played and partly on his character and leadership. Now, more than ever, I am a believer in the importance of "intangibles" when evaluating the QB position. Just watch Mike Mayock/Steve Sabol video on "Art vs. Science - evaluating QBs" - good stuff - and watch out for Matt Ryan

  6. #6
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Falconator, i live in atlanta and loved your pick of ryan. His preseason performance (notwithstanding the terrible throw and read for the INT in the first home preseason game which i saw in person) was excellent. As we both know, while preseason doesnt mean much, better that he does well than poorly.

    That being said, i think the falcons are making a terrible mistake starting him in week one. I think that they need to take a longer range view and not worry so much about filling the dome in week one until they determine whether they have a functional offensive line, a topic that is certainly open to debate at this point.

    I think ryan is going to be an excellent qb (think hasselbeck) IF they dont rush him and like all other qb's, if they can protect him and give him some kind of running game. I appreciate that he may be better right now than redman, although we will see what happens when the season starts. I just dont see the hurry given the magnitude of the investment and the rebuilding nature of the season anyway.

    Its a lousy idea to pull ryan from the job once you give it to him as confidence, both in himself and from his teamates. If you start redman and he does well (ie you win some games) you have lost nothing. If he does poorly, you at least have given the coaches some time to figure out the offensive line issues and you can bring ryan in with somewhat reduced expectations. If ryan starts too soon and plays poorly, are you not putting his future development at risk?

    The learn on the job theory is a very risky one in the nfl for physical and intellectual reasons. Its one thing if you have weapons and an offensive line in front of you. BUt if its going to be be drop back to pass and run for your life (see david carr) you can do a lot of damage to a qb in a short period of time.

    Best of luck with your season and ramming speed to you and your family

    general counsel

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    general counsel,

    I'm gonna "riverside" you and disagree with you. I understand your logic and many others espouse similiar arguments. However, I maintain that Matt Ryan has a higher aptitude in understanding an NFL offense than others that have gone before him and failed (i.e. Couch, Carr, etc.). Also, I think Ryan's leadership and maturity are "higher" as well - rivaling(dare I say it?) Peyton Manning (not saying he will be as good as Peyton, mind you). Lastly, since your from Atlanta you should know this - the Falcons offensive line has looked "very good" in pre-season. Sam Baker "handled" Kyle Vandenbosh and looked good against Colts and Jags as well. This is KEY.......I agree that if I thought Matt Ryan was going into a "meat grinder" and would be sacked 5 times a game - I would want the guy to sit - and I think the Falcons would as well........I think this was the determining factor in starting Matt Ryan - the improvement of the offensive line. We will see if this "improvement" carries over - I think the Falcons will be "just fine"..........

    Will Matt Ryan make mistakes? you bet - I would not be suprised if he threw 20+ interceptions this year - heck, Peyton threw 28 ints his rookie year - but he's doing OK......You may end up being right but I certainly hope not.........GO FALCONS!!!!

  7. #7
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Your optimism regarding the falcons offense line based on its pre season performance is commendable. Do you have any view regarding an outbreak of world peace or a decline in oil prices at any point in the near future?

    The falcons offensive line may well be fine, but how they performed in pre season is not likely to be a good judge of anything. There is no historical precedent at all tying preseason performance to regular season peformance. There are just way too many variables that are different.

    All i am saying is that they should be a little more patient, not that they should sit him for the full year (which is what i hear from a number of falcons fans i work with).

    Time will tell, you have every right to be optimistic about the future of the falcons as i believe that ryan is the first step in the right direction. I also think Turner will help A LOT IF the oline performs.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  8. #8
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    yeah, guess we just have two different perspectives of thought on the Falcons offensive line - your view is the more "widely held view" by the national media. I am basing my optimism on "what I have seen" in the pre-season but your point is well taken about the "pre-season being the pre-season". We will just have to wait and see.

    My guess is the Falcons O-Line will NOT be as good as they were in the pre-season but will still be infinitely better than they were last year. Tyson Clabo and Harvey Dahl are "nasty" and play the line like old school guys........we shall see......

    thanks for the comments general counsel, koakoi and RAMarkable.......feel free to keep posting - i will respond - thanks again!

  9. #9
    RAMarkable is online now Registered User
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    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Falconator,

    I'm going to have to agree with gc on this one. I also cannot see any huge advantage to throwing M. Ryan "to the wolves" as it were. Everybody (Rams fans included) thinks their guy is ready or advanced enough to start right away; but the annals of the NFL show otherwise. Don't really see any tremendous upside for this move right now.

    Definitely agree on your assessment on M. Turner at rb. He's not eligible for Comeback Player of the Year award, but how about the Coming Out of (virtually) Nowhere award.
    My prediction: a lot of people are going to be saying "Just who in the heck IS this guy?" Of course it's easy to get buried when you play behind LT all of your career.

    I guess you were right that the Falcons would not blink and trade up with the Rams to select G. Dorsey. Now if you're equally correct on Mr. Ryan you can then put 2 feathers in your cap.

    BTW you've already mentioned 3 of your starting linemen, who are the other two? I'm assuming that Jeff Van Note is still not the Falcons center!!

    P.S. I'm glad you finally responded as I was gettin' kinda worried. What with all that goes on out in the Georgia backwoods a lot of ugly stuff can happen if you are unfortunate enough to stumble upon someone's *ahem* "business enterprise".

    WHAT SAY YE?

  10. #10
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    While van note is not playing this year, i hear that bill fralic is in shape. Fralic was beating the crap out of claude humphrey throughout training camp. Humphrey may be ready for the hall of fame, but judging by the photos i saw this weekend, he has not been spending a lot of time on the treadmill lately.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  11. #11
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Falconator,

    I'm going to have to agree with gc on this one. I also cannot see any huge advantage to throwing M. Ryan "to the wolves" as it were. Everybody (Rams fans included) thinks their guy is ready or advanced enough to start right away; but the annals of the NFL show otherwise. Don't really see any tremendous upside for this move right now.

    Definitely agree on your assessment on M. Turner at rb. He's not eligible for Comeback Player of the Year award, but how about the Coming Out of (virtually) Nowhere award.
    My prediction: a lot of people are going to be saying "Just who in the heck IS this guy?" Of course it's easy to get buried when you play behind LT all of your career.

    I guess you were right that the Falcons would not blink and trade up with the Rams to select G. Dorsey. Now if you're equally correct on Mr. Ryan you can then put 2 feathers in your cap.

    BTW you've already mentioned 3 of your starting linemen, who are the other two? I'm assuming that Jeff Van Note is still not the Falcons center!!

    P.S. I'm glad you finally responded as I was gettin' kinda worried. What with all that goes on out in the Georgia backwoods a lot of ugly stuff can happen if you are unfortunate enough to stumble upon someone's *ahem* "business enterprise".

    WHAT SAY YE?
    LT-Sam Baker, LG-Justin Blalock, C-Todd McClure, RG-Harvey Dahl, RT-Tyson Clabo..........Blalock and McClure are the only returning starters from last year - and that's a good thing!

    I'm fairly certain that I am right and you guys are wrong about the Matt Ryan starting thing......no point in me trying to convince you though - the season is here and it will "bare out" eventually. Matt Ryan is of strong mind so if he struggles it should not effect him mentally long term- as long as he does not get "beat down" physically then he will be fine. I think the boys up front will be "average" O-Line and that will be good enough.

    Not sure about all the "backwoods" stuff - last i checked, Atlanta was a bigger market than St. Louis.....

  12. #12
    Falconator Guest

    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    While van note is not playing this year, i hear that bill fralic is in shape. Fralic was beating the crap out of claude humphrey throughout training camp. Humphrey may be ready for the hall of fame, but judging by the photos i saw this weekend, he has not been spending a lot of time on the treadmill lately.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    my how "uppity" you Rams fans are - last time I checked its been what like 8 years since Rams won that SuperBowl?

  13. #13
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Dont be so sensitive Falconator, we are kidding around with you. Uppity is not the right word to express what we all thought was a very productive and interesting thread. If you hang around here, you will see that we constantly make comments about rams of the past all the time, its not limited to former falcons. And for the record, i was a huge tommy nobis fan in days gone by. By the way, is william andrews out of the slam?

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  14. #14
    RAMarkable is online now Registered User
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    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Tommy Nobis was a stud, no question about it. However, the one player that I've never forgot about was Donnie Hampton. I mean I was watching ( on T.V.,ofcourse) when he finally went over the 1,000 yard mark only to be tackled for a 5 yard loss the very next play. He finished the year with 995 yards rushing and I can't recall ever feeling so bad for a non-Ram player. I remember the backfield of Hampton and fullback Art Malone as a pretty formidable duo.

    Also with gc's reference to Claude Humphrey does anybody recall his linemate John Zook? Gosh with a name like that ya'll just had to be good.

    Btw,Falconator, the reference to the backwoods of GA was more of a Southern thing since I live here in Arkansas and all.

    WHAT SAY YE?

  15. #15
    bigredman Guest

    Re: Falconator is Back - reflection on 2008 picks so far...(Chris Long/Matt Ryan)

    Oh my goodness, I thought this guy faded away like the weak comedy stunt of the Falconer on Saturday Night Live.

    I got news for ya Falcon fan.....
    Matt Ryan = Alex Smith
    my how "uppity" you Rams fans are - last time I checked its been what like 8 years since Rams won that SuperBowl?

    And the Falcons won the Super Bowl like.....NEVER....but they sure are champions of chasing hookers on Miami Beach!

    thanks for the comments general counsel, koakoi and RAMarkable.......feel free to keep posting - i will respond - thanks again!

    Falconator, general counsel, koakoi, Ramarkable sittin' in a tree.....K....I....S....S....I....N....G....



    Give me a break...this is a fan of a former divisional rival (that ran scared out of the NFC West because they couldn't hang). I don't see the point.
    Last edited by bigredman; -09-02-2008 at 08:54 PM.

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