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  1. #16
    Mooselini's Avatar
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    Take Dorsey. I don't want him. Give us an option of Chris Long or Jake Long, not Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey.

    You guys take Jake Long, Dorsey is still an option for us, and I don't want that. We need one of the Longs.


  2. #17
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooselini View Post
    Take Dorsey. I don't want him. Give us an option of Chris Long or Jake Long, not Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey.

    You guys take Jake Long, Dorsey is still an option for us, and I don't want that. We need one of the Longs.
    I 'll second that. I don't want Dorsey at all.

    I know a few dolphins fans up here in upstate NY and they are all pulling for Jake Long, for what its worth.

  3. #18
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    Quote Originally Posted by cfh128 View Post
    I 'll second that. I don't want Dorsey at all.

    I know a few dolphins fans up here in upstate NY and they are all pulling for Jake Long, for what its worth.
    Well, I mean Dorsey is going to be good. Don't get me wrong. But we have 4 DT's, 3 of them who are young, one decent veteran.

    We don't have as many DE's. If we address the DE, it will give us time to grow a good DT force in the middle. I think in a few years, Carriker and Ryan will be a good combo. And with Chris Long or Vernon Gholston on the other hand of Little, our DL will be something to reckon.

  4. #19
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    .
    I hope the Fins take GLENN DORSEY

    The guy can play but we are in Dire Straits - we can't afford to take
    any risk.

    I think the Rams are interested in the other 3 (Long bros, & Gholston).

    And Thanks for asking!

  5. #20
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    Anybody but Chris Long suits me down to the ground.

    I think Jake Long makes the most sense for the franchise, as fiscally and need-wise he makes sense. He's also justifiably a top 3 pick, and whilst he may not be outright BPA, when you factor in the other issues, taking him humber 1 would be far from a stretch.

    In order of preference;

    1. Matt Ryan
    2. Glenn Dorsey
    3. Jake Long
    4. Vernon Gholston
    5. Chris Long

    +rep to whever it was that suggested a punter

  6. #21
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    I'm gonna have to agree with Bar-bq. If we take Chris Long, we'll regret it in 2 years. The guy has the least potential of the "big four". He won't help our pass-rush, and will never really get any better throughout his career.

    If Jake Long doesn't go to Miami, he will be ours. He's one of the greatest tackles to ever come out of college. Just try and imagine what he'd do for our running game. If we could keep Pace healthy, and then with J. Long and Bell, Jackson will have a HUGE impact for us next year. We'd instantly have one of the best O-Lines in the league...and we can cope with Barron at Right Guard.

    I wouldn't mind picking Dorsey as long as we then go DE with the #33 pick. Gholston has some huge upside too...he WILL be better than C. Long.

    Anyway, who I think the Fins should draft?

    Matt Ryan

    John Beck? Are you kidding me?

  7. #22
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    after all thats been said in the press about how Miami arent really keen on giving a player number 1 overall money and stuff like that, im beginning to expect that when Miami is on the clock they just sit there for the 15 minutes or whatever it is and then let the Rams pick first overall when they come on the clock

  8. #23
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBulger View Post
    I'm gonna have to agree with Bar-bq. If we take Chris Long, we'll regret it in 2 years. The guy has the least potential of the "big four". He won't help our pass-rush, and will never really get any better throughout his career.
    Oh yeah, he has the least potential. I mean he was only among the top performers at DE in the 40, the shuttle, three cone drill, broad jump, and vertical jump. He only has four main pass rush moves, and he only tied for third in Division I football in sacks. I mean only 14 sacks in 13 games? Come on. His strengths only include quickness, agility, awareness, strength, run-stopping, pursuit, taking good angles to get to the quarterback, technique, leadership, character, and a great motor. Sure, scouts are hard pressed to find any true weakness in his game...but you know, he's just not Vernon Gholston.

    What exactly is limiting Chris Long's potential? Athleticism? Neither Jake Long nor Glenn Dorsey bowled people over with their timed scores. Is he uncoachable? Because he seems to do a pretty good job of learning. Doesn't work out? That can't be it. Even in high school, he'd get one of the janitors to unlock the building so he could sneak back in after basketball games to lift more weights. You think just because he is polished now he won't continue to improve?

  9. #24
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    Oh yeah, he has the least potential. I mean he was only among the top performers at DE in the 40, the shuttle, three cone drill, broad jump, and vertical jump. He only has four main pass rush moves, and he only tied for third in Division I football in sacks. I mean only 14 sacks in 13 games? Come on. His strengths only include quickness, agility, awareness, strength, run-stopping, pursuit, taking good angles to get to the quarterback, technique, leadership, character, and a great motor. Sure, scouts are hard pressed to find any true weakness in his game...but you know, he's just not Vernon Gholston.

    What exactly is limiting Chris Long's potential? Athleticism? Neither Jake Long nor Glenn Dorsey bowled people over with their timed scores. Is he uncoachable? Because he seems to do a pretty good job of learning. Doesn't work out? That can't be it. Even in high school, he'd get one of the janitors to unlock the building so he could sneak back in after basketball games to lift more weights. You think just because he is polished now he won't continue to improve?
    All I know is there's a ceiling for every player and Chris just happens to be much closer to his than the rest of the group.

    So if you're looking for a solid, well rounded DE with limited ceiling, who will pay dividends right now, then Chris is your man.

    However, if you're looking for a guy who has unlimited potential and is already right there with Chris Long, though his true value will probably be realized in the near future, then Gholston's you man.

    I just happen to like the latter set of circumstances a little better.

  10. #25
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    I think both teams have so many holes it's easier to say what both don't need. Whoever you take, we'll take someone else who fills a hole. Both teams aren't anywhere near competing for Super Bowl so take whomever and we'll take whatever.

  11. #26
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    Quote Originally Posted by FinNasty View Post
    Hey guys, Fin fan here...

    Since our pick will probably have a huge impact on who you draft... I am wondering who you are hoping we will take?

    I think we will be one of the Longs. I like Chris the best, but Jake makes more sense for us in terms of need.

    Who are you pulling for us to draft #1?
    Hi FinNasty; welcome to our board. I think, as you see, the consensus answer (with the exception of a couple of wildcards that owe Gholston money) is "anybody not named Chris Long". Our pass rush has suffered from the outside and we have no successor to Little. As well, our interior run stopping has improved, but there's still not a lot of help to the outside. Chris Long fits both those bills, and brings the same intangibles as last year's first rounder Adam Carriker, who has been a success so far.

    For you guys, we've all seen the mocks that have consistently sent Chris Long your way, but personally, I don't see how you pass on Jake Long. Vernon Carey is the only starting Tackle on your roster. If Beck is to get a chance to learn and succeed, how do you pass on Jake Long? IMO, your DE/OLB position has more potential and depth to it than your OT spot does.

    What's your take on it?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #27
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBulger
    I'm gonna have to agree with Bar-bq. If we take Chris Long, we'll regret it in 2 years. The guy has the least potential of the "big four". He won't help our pass-rush, and will never really get any better throughout his career.
    Quote Originally Posted by niner
    All I know is there's a ceiling for every player and Chris just happens to be much closer to his than the rest of the group.
    And what evidence is this based on? Anything material, or just the proverbial gut feeling?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #28
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    So if you're looking for a solid, well rounded DE with limited ceiling, who will pay dividends right now, then Chris is your man.

    However, if you're looking for a guy who has unlimited potential and is already right there with Chris Long, though his true value will probably be realized in the near future, then Gholston's you man.
    I, too, would be curious how you are gauging Chris Long's ceiling. His father was an All-Pro, so the genetics would seem to favor him. I was thumbing the Sporting News Draft Report earlier today, and they quoted Virginia Head Coach Al Groh as saying he had only ever coached one player other who just made plays no matter what like Long does, and that was Lawrence Taylor. The draft mag itself noted that their scouts considered Chris Long not only the most polished defensive end prospect but quite possibly the best defensive end prospect they had ever evaluated. Steve Rosner, who represented Howie Long and Lawrence Taylor also observed "Chris is as close to Lawrence Taylor as anybody I've ever seen" (as recounted in a Sports Illustrated article a few weeks ago). As former Dallas GM Gil Brandt observed, the 40 isn't even that important for a defensive end because he is not going to run 40 yards at a time in a game. He argued that an explosive first step is more important and that, he said, is what Chris Long has.

    I would not think people would be comparing him to LT--one of the best defensive players in NFL history-- if they thought Chris was a player with limited upside who was already as good as he was ever going to be. His work ethic has never been questioned and the harshest criticism of his athletic ability has been that it is "average". I think critics mistakenly label Chris Long as a guy who won't be able to generate much of a pass rush when in fact he was one of the most dominant pass rushers in college football last season.

    As far as Gholston already being right there with Long, that might have been true in college, but in the pros, speed alone doesn't cut it. Otherwise, we'd just line up sprinters as pass rushers. Gholston might be able to run and benchpress, but can he bull rush, spin, rip, club, headfake...anything other than "run the long way around the edge"? I'd argue that it's not a coincidence that he puts sacks up in bunches followed by several game droughts. Match him up against a guy who isn't athletic enough to keep pace and he'll put up 3 or 4 sacks. Match him up against an athletic pro left tackle, and maybe his performance will resemble the 6 out of 13 games he didn't record a sack in 2007 (the Michigan and Wisconsin games contributed half of his sack total for the season).
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -04-15-2008 at 12:34 AM.

  14. #29
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    [QUOTE=Goldenfleece;224578] His work ethic has never been questioned and the harshest criticism of his athletic ability has been that it is "average".


    There in lies part of the answer to your question.

    There is no doubt Chris is technically sound. Why would he not be, with a HOF dad coaching him all of his life.

    However, I believe his ceiling is limited because of that coaching. Sure he'll continue to pick up suttle nuances of his position, but the bulk of his learning has already been done. That is why he's so technically sound.

    No other player in this draft has had the advantage of having a HOFamer teaching them from even before the first time they stepped on a football field, so it's not hard to understand why he's considered by many the most NFL ready player in the draft.

    Does that mean he's the best? Maybe right now he is, but in time, when others with more natural ability (Gholston) learn what Chris has been privelaged to learn to this point, there will be a new sheriff in town.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -04-15-2008 at 12:47 AM.

  15. #30
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    Re: Fin fan here... who do you hope we take?

    [QUOTE=Fortuninerhater;224631]
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    No other player in this draft has had the advantage of having a HOFamer teaching them from even before the first time they stepped on a football field, so it's not hard to understand why he's considered by many the most NFL ready player in the draft.
    Now that's not exactly true. Howie didn't even bring up the idea of playing football. Chris did, and when he joined the team, Howie told the coach he wasn't convinced his son would stay interested. Howie did volunteer part-time to help coach his team in high school, but as you probably know, Howie Long has a pretty successful broadcasting and advertising career that keeps him away from his small town Virginia home. Undoubtedly he got tips from his dad, but it's not like he was groomed for this since he was little. He didn't even play at one of the better schools for high school football. Whatever Howie taught Chris in high school, I think it's safe to assume that when Chris was away at college trying to make a name for himself separate from his father, that Howie was not there at practices teaching him how to do things.

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