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Thread: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    In 2007, the Titans signed Chris Hope, the Steeler safety, to a 6 year, 30.6 million deal.

    That may seem like nothing now, but 7 years ago that was a huge deal for a safety.

    The cap back that year was $109 million, or 22% lower than it is now.

    Just sayin, it seems like Fisher will pay for a safety, and pay big

    And Hope played out the entire deal, so that amount was all paid.

    Barry Waller

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    In 2007, the Titans signed Chris Hope, the Steeler safety, to a 6 year, 30.6 million deal.

    That may seem like nothing now, but 7 years ago that was a huge deal for a safety.

    The cap back that year was $109 million, or 22% lower than it is now.

    Just sayin, it seems like Fisher will pay for a safety, and pay big

    And Hope played out the entire deal, so that amount was all paid.
    So, based upon one player, you have concluded that Jeff Fisher has a history with big safety deals (plural)?

    Okay...

    So does that mean that he'd invest the bulk of the Rams' available cap room on a safety this year?

    Not necessarily.

    This strikes me as the same type of argument as "Jeff Fisher has never drafted an offensive lineman in Round 1, so he won't do so in 2014."

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Barry,

    Are you thinking Fisher will make a run a Byrd?

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    <<<This strikes me as the same type of argument as "Jeff Fisher has never drafted an offensive lineman in Round 1, so he won't do so in 2014.">>>

    Nice false analogy. That seems to be a real 21st century tactic in making a case, say something totally wrong and act like everyone knows it's true.

    Jeff Fisher had good linemen when he took the TEnn job, and he really didn't have control over the draft for years. They had a very strong GM power wise, Floyd Reece.

    Maybe they never took OL because there were way better players when they picked, and t hey never picked really early, where you get franchise OT.

    However, HE DID spend big money on a safety in 2007, and Tennessee never had a ton of cap, so it MAY have been all they had to spend on FA.

    The rams, after redoing or cutting Wells, Dahl, and Finnegan, will have probably $22.5 million to spend.

    You spend $1.5 mil on Clemens, $2 million on Chris Williams, $1.5 million for Dunbar, and you still have $17.5 million.

    You need $4 million for draft picks by training camp.

    So you have $13.5 million

    Byrd probably can be done for a deal that only counts $6 million, maybe even $5 the first year, and the cap soars the next two at least, to $150 million in 2016.

    SO you would still have maybe $8.5 million, and if you can extend langford you can add a couple million more at least.

    I don't get where fans think t he Rams have no cap room.

    The extra $6 milion they just got unexpectedly is by itself enough to sign Byrd or Ward, who came into the NFL as a FS.

    They get significant cap cuts in Laurinaitis and C. long deals too, with no stars getting big increases in their deals .

    In 2015 they have to sign Quinn, so you hope you get him done now, and use the rest of the cap for t hat.

    A new Bradford deal won't increase his cap much from where it is now, and could in fact, lower it a few million.

    if they want to wait on Quinn, knowing they can franchise him with that extra cap space, t hey would have $ 8.5 million for OTHER needs at CB, G, and maybe even to bring back Saffold.

    I don't know where fas are getting their numbers, but the Rams are in very good cap shape now.

    If what you are saying is true, before the extra $6 million, the Rams could not have done ANYTHING at all.

    That's wrong, and now they have the room to add a star, but only at a low paid position like Safety.
    Barry Waller

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    I can't read Fisher's mind, and it could be about where Byrd wants to play as much as the money.
    Just saying I would not rule it out, as Fisher has shown he will pay a lot for a safety, something people think the Rams wouldn't ever do, for some reason, since Seattle will pay a LOT for their safety duo very soon.

    The Rams have had mostly over paid crap at safety since 1995 here. They never made a concerted effort to have a great safty group either. Bush, Butler, Furrey, Bartell, Atogwe, Dahl, Archuleta and on and on, always de-emphasizing safety as you pass on Troy Palumalu, and other great safeties draft after draft.

    Look at who the All-Time St louis Rams team would have at safety, compared to the other positions.

    QB Warner
    RB Faulk, Jackson
    WR Holt, Bruce
    TE - E. Conwell
    OT Pace, J. Long
    G - Timmerman, Nutten
    C - McCollum
    DE Little, Carter, Quinn, Long, Wistrom
    DT - Farr, Pickett, Gilbert
    OLB- Phifer, Tinoisamoa
    MLB Laurinaitis, Fletcher
    CB A. Williams, T. Lyght, D. Bly
    S K. Lyle, T. Wright
    Barry Waller

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    <<<This strikes me as the same type of argument as "Jeff Fisher has never drafted an offensive lineman in Round 1, so he won't do so in 2014.">>>

    Nice false analogy. That seems to be a real 21st century tactic in making a case, say something totally wrong and act like everyone knows it's true.

    Jeff Fisher had good linemen when he took the TEnn job, and he really didn't have control over the draft for years. They had a very strong GM power wise, Floyd Reece.

    Maybe they never took OL because there were way better players when they picked, and t hey never picked really early, where you get franchise OT.

    However, HE DID spend big money on a safety in 2007, and Tennessee never had a ton of cap, so it MAY have been all they had to spend on FA.

    The rams, after redoing or cutting Wells, Dahl, and Finnegan, will have probably $22.5 million to spend.

    You spend $1.5 mil on Clemens, $2 million on Chris Williams, $1.5 million for Dunbar, and you still have $17.5 million.

    You need $4 million for draft picks by training camp.

    So you have $13.5 million

    Byrd probably can be done for a deal that only counts $6 million, maybe even $5 the first year, and the cap soars the next two at least, to $150 million in 2016.

    SO you would still have maybe $8.5 million, and if you can extend langford you can add a couple million more at least.

    I don't get where fans think t he Rams have no cap room.

    The extra $6 milion they just got unexpectedly is by itself enough to sign Byrd or Ward, who came into the NFL as a FS.

    They get significant cap cuts in Laurinaitis and C. long deals too, with no stars getting big increases in their deals .

    In 2015 they have to sign Quinn, so you hope you get him done now, and use the rest of the cap for t hat.

    A new Bradford deal won't increase his cap much from where it is now, and could in fact, lower it a few million.

    if they want to wait on Quinn, knowing they can franchise him with that extra cap space, t hey would have $ 8.5 million for OTHER needs at CB, G, and maybe even to bring back Saffold.

    I don't know where fas are getting their numbers, but the Rams are in very good cap shape now.

    If what you are saying is true, before the extra $6 million, the Rams could not have done ANYTHING at all.

    That's wrong, and now they have the room to add a star, but only at a low paid position like Safety.
    I don't know who you are arguing with, as I didn't say anything about the Rams' cap room.

    I'm trying to discern what your point is, and to respond accordingly. You seem to be stating that Fisher's positive experience with Chris Hope suggests that he might make a run at a guy like Jarius Byrd (who you've been advocating for over the last week). My response is simply that, while past experience is relevant, its not determinative (i.e. Fisher might take an OL in Round 1 even though he has not done so previously).

    While you have your sights firmly set on Byrd, I look at FA as more of an open field. With my top choice, Alex Mack, having received a transition tag yesterday, here is an alphabetical list of the top FAs that I think the Rams should consider (prices may vary):

    Jon Asamoah, OG, Kansas City
    Jarius Byrd, S, Buffalo
    Chris Clemons, S, Miami
    Brian De La Puente, C, New Orleans
    Malcolm Jenkins, S, New Orleans
    Captain Munnerlyn, CB, Carolina
    Alterraun Verner, CB, Tennessee
    T.J Ward, S, Cleveland
    Ryan Wendell, C, New England

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    Byrd probably can be done for a deal that only counts $6 million, maybe even $5 the first year, and the cap soars the next two at least, to $150 million in 2016.
    Wow, $150 million in 2016?

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    I think Arch was rated pretty high his first couple seasons as a strong saftey, if memory serves many thought of him as a pretty good player at the time... I think injuries and being exposed in coverage may have lessoned his value after this but he was hot at first or so I remember him.
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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by Randart View Post
    I think Arch was rated pretty high his first couple seasons as a strong saftey, if memory serves many thought of him as a pretty good player at the time... I think injuries and being exposed in coverage may have lessoned his value after this but he was hot at first or so I remember him.
    I believe you are 100% correct. Until the neck injury effectively ended his career, he was a very solid SS. People like to claim he was never good when that's not the reality IMO.
    HUbison and Randart like this.

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    I like Byrd, but can't see him going nutso with throwing the cap around to get him.

    I know we live in a copycat league and its hard to dispute the results that were on display this superbowl, but not to the detriment of everything else. Think there is a shift again. Can see a lot of defenses geared up to stop the pass attack and a lot of power running games were successful.

    Not saying we will be going back to the 70s but I am saying copycats tend to always play catch-up and falling just short. Seems also that the teams that get a lot of good players and make intelligent fa/draft decisions do a lot better then the teams that go for the ultrastud superstar and give up the bank for it. Go for Byrd, BUT be smart!

    Also have to agree with Avenger, one selection does not make a trend, but that is semantics. Fisher has done it in the past so its not out of the realm of possibility instead of saying history of. Nitpicking really :-)

    I am more interested in the why. What happened the previous year that made him pull the trigger on the deal? Who was the competition at the time? How was the rest of his defense looking? What about Snead? There seems to be a lot of positive collaboration between the two.

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I don't know who you are arguing with, as I didn't say anything about the Rams' cap room.

    I'm trying to discern what your point is, and to respond accordingly. You seem to be stating that Fisher's positive experience with Chris Hope suggests that he might make a run at a guy like Jarius Byrd (who you've been advocating for over the last week). My response is simply that, while past experience is relevant, its not determinative (i.e. Fisher might take an OL in Round 1 even though he has not done so previously).

    While you have your sights firmly set on Byrd, I look at FA as more of an open field. With my top choice, Alex Mack, having received a transition tag yesterday, here is an alphabetical list of the top FAs that I think the Rams should consider (prices may vary):

    Jon Asamoah, OG, Kansas City
    Jarius Byrd, S, Buffalo
    Chris Clemons, S, Miami
    Brian De La Puente, C, New Orleans
    Malcolm Jenkins, S, New Orleans
    Captain Munnerlyn, CB, Carolina
    Alterraun Verner, CB, Tennessee
    T.J Ward, S, Cleveland
    Ryan Wendell, C, New England
    I like Asamoah too, underrated player who's really good at run-blocking. I think I'd still prefer re-signing Saffold just because of his versatility, but if he gets too expensive Asamoah would be a good substitute. Not the biggest fan of De La Puente, he's pretty inconsistent and not that good of a run-blocker in my eyes.

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    So, based upon one player, you have concluded that Jeff Fisher has a history with big safety deals (plural)?

    Okay...

    So does that mean that he'd invest the bulk of the Rams' available cap room on a safety this year?

    Not necessarily.

    This strikes me as the same type of argument as "Jeff Fisher has never drafted an offensive lineman in Round 1, so he won't do so in 2014."
    Agree that the Safety argument is not a very strong one, but the Oline one has about 18 years worth of legs to run on.

    Not quite the same, IMO.

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Nolan Cromwell was the best Safety I ever saw in a Rams uniform.

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Nolan Cromwell was the best Safety I ever saw in a Rams uniform.
    I remember watching him as a kid, he was always around the ball. Also recall him as having one of the best lines in the old "Ram It' rap video lol

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    Re: Fisher Has a History With Big Safety Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Agree that the Safety argument is not a very strong one, but the Oline one has about 18 years worth of legs to run on.

    Not quite the same, IMO.
    18 years of him not having player control tells you he doesn't value offensive linemen in the first? Fishers last three to four years were the only years he had any input in player personnel in Tenn.

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