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  1. #61
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Free agency opens March 5th of this year.
    But the Eagles appear to have some kind of window before March 5th to trade Vick, based on the reporting that's been done so far. The only information I've been able to come up with suggests that the first business day of March is when trading can begin, but like I said, I'm not sure. But it wouldn't make sense for reporters to speculate about Vick being traded before free agency if that wasn't possible.

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  2. #62
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    But the Eagles appear to have some kind of window before March 5th to trade Vick, based on the reporting that's been done so far. The only information I've been able to come up with suggests that the first business day of March is when trading can begin, but like I said, I'm not sure. But it wouldn't make sense for reporters to speculate about Vick being traded before free agency if that wasn't possible.
    Yeah I have read alot of reports myself Nick that say maybe the Eagles will trade Vick before they owe him the 1.5million on March 5th. Hence why i posted what i read on rotoworld so there must be something we just arent finding.

  3. #63
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    I contacted Howard Balzer about the situation, and he said that no trades can occur prior to March 5th, but his understanding is that his bonus isn't actually to be paid until March 9th.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I contacted Howard Balzer about the situation, and he said that no trades can occur prior to March 5th, but his understanding is that his bonus isn't actually to be paid until March 9th.
    Oh i see...thanks for finding this out

  5. #65
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r View Post
    When did I say Kyle Boller was better then vick? I said Bulger and Null were better passers. Boller IMO is not better then anybody in the league. Now with that said, yes Null will be a better QB then what we will get if we grab vick. Null has a ceiling that he has yet to reach, and vick is already much past him prime. And for anyone to think Vick will lead anyone to the playoffs before his career as a player ends, I think your out of your mind.
    You said that our backup was a better QB. I took that to mean either one or both of them since both spent time as the backup.

    What have you seen out of Null that truly makes you believe he is a better QB then Vick? The only QB on this roster who is even more accurate than Vick is Bulger. I watched Vick play and I said many times that he was overrated as a passer. But Vick can win you games.

    Anyone that watched Vick play this year saw an improving player. The guy got better week in and week out. He showed he still has good enough speed, he's still got a strong enough arm to zip the ball downfield, and he's still smart enough to be able to read an NFL defense after two years of sitting in jail.

    What did you see from Null? I learned that Ryan Leaf taught his protege very well in the art of throwing interceptions. He did not prove that he can win. He did not prove that he could one day be a starter. He did not prove that he's even really worth a roster spot.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJackson39 View Post
    You said that our backup was a better QB. I took that to mean either one or both of them since both spent time as the backup.

    What have you seen out of Null that truly makes you believe he is a better QB then Vick? The only QB on this roster who is even more accurate than Vick is Bulger. I watched Vick play and I said many times that he was overrated as a passer. But Vick can win you games.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding, I said our #1 and #2 QB were better passers then Vick, Null has moved up a position on the depth chart.

    Null has shown poise in the pocket and above average accuracy for someone coming out of a Div 2 school. He has shown patience and leadership in the huddle. Accuracy, patience, and poise are qualities that Vick has never possesed.

    Anyone that watched Vick play this year saw an improving player. The guy got better week in and week out. He showed he still has good enough speed, he's still got a strong enough arm to zip the ball downfield, and he's still smart enough to be able to read an NFL defense after two years of sitting in jail.
    Thats the problem, you cant say Vick improved week after week, when he didnt play but maybe three plays week after week. And he has never been smart enough to read a defense, on the rare occasions that he throws the ball he has the luxury of throwing the people like Desean Jackson who seems to always be open, and then dump it off the LeSean McCoy.

    What did you see from Null? I learned that Ryan Leaf taught his protege very well in the art of throwing interceptions. He did not prove that he can win. He did not prove that he could one day be a starter. He did not prove that he's even really worth a roster spot.
    Beileve it or not Ryan leaf was a very good QB coming out of College and was in the running for the first overall pick. Null has already shown that he has not inherited Leaf's Temperament, since he did not yell at the media after every loss. Null may not of proved he can win but neither has Vick, the only thing Vick has proved is that when his gimmick plays dont work Mcnabb can come back on the field and lead his team to victory. I never said Null could be a starter, But neither can Vick, and if I had to choose a backup, I would choose Null.

  7. #67
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    I take issue with the term "Vick haters" as used in the thread title.

    I don't consider myself a Vick "hater." True, I don't have a very high opinion of the man's character given his prior actions. But that's not why I don't want him on the Rams. As I've said countless times, I don't think he'd help the team because he is a bad passer (and yes, that is the primary job of a QB).

    If I thought he could help the team, I'd be fine with him being signed (at a reasonable price).

    With respect to Vick's personal life, I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have a dog in that fight.







    Sorry.... poor choice of words.

  8. #68
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    ANYONE THAT THINKS NULL IS BETTER THAN VICK CAN'T BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

    It's like saying David Eckstien is better than Alfonso Soriano because Soriano strikeouts too much.

    You can only argue QB accuracy when the 2 QB's are on the same talent level.

    Null and Vick obviously are not.

  9. #69
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    ANYONE THAT THINKS NULL IS BETTER THAN VICK CAN'T BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

    It's like saying David Eckstien is better than Alfonso Soriano because Soriano strikeouts too much.

    You can only argue QB accuracy when the 2 QB's are on the same talent level.

    Null and Vick obviously are not.
    In the ability to throw, which is what I judge a QB by, Null is most certainly on the same talent level as vick.

  10. #70
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r View Post
    In the ability to throw, which is what I judge a QB by, Null is most certainly on the same talent level as vick.

    Yeah, but only judging his ability to throw is like judging a hitter by his batting average only.

    Look at Kerry Collins he coudn't win -- insert Vince Young franchise turned around.

    Its like saying the best running backs can only be judged by yards per carry and all receptions out of the backfield don't matter.

  11. #71
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    Look at Kerry Collins he coudn't win -- insert Vince Young franchise turned around.
    Actually, in 2008, Collins replaced Young and lead the Titans to the playoffs. In 2009, the situation nearly reversed, with Young taking over and turning the team around.

    Bottom line, though, is that I sure hope that the Rams have options other than Vick and Null.

  12. #72
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    You can only argue QB accuracy when the 2 QB's are on the same talent level.

    Null and Vick obviously are not.
    See, that just doesn't make sense to me to say that it doesn't matter if one is more accurate than the other because he's "less talented". I'd say accuracy and decision-making would be the top two characteristics necessary for an NFL quarterback to succeed. Arm strength and mobility are secondary characteristics.

    The problem with Vick--off-field issues aside--is that not only is he inaccurate, but he doesn't read the field well either. I recall reading somewhere that he threw to the tight end more than half the time. When he left, people found out Roddy White actually was a pretty good receiver when someone other than Vick was throwing the ball.

    That said, Null's yards/attempt average is 4.8 so far, which is terrible. If you're going to average less than 5 yards per attempt, you might as well run the ball on every down to avoid the risk of interception. I'd be very disappointed if we planned on having either of them start next season.

  13. #73
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Roddy White improved because A)He improved his work ethic with the help of Hue Jackson and actually Bobby Petrino out of all people. There are a few articles about this as well. B)He was put in a vertical offense where he belongs C)He got playing time- Roddy White started more games in 2007 than he started in his first two years in the league combined. He started 5 games in Vick's last year. Roddy White didn't have a breakout year because the all-world Joey Harrington was throwing him the ball. Harrington has worse career stats in every body's favorite statistics in completion percentage and touchdowns career wise than Vick does. And if Vick were the problem them numerous receivers or at least more than one when he left Atlanta would have lived up to their potential. But Roddy White is the only one. Not Peerless Price, not Ashley Lelie, not Alge Crumpler, Dez White, etc. That's because Vick wasn't the problem. And there's a reason he didn't hold Crumpler back. Because Crumpler was the only playmaking starter on the team. Roddy WHite started 5 games i People have been miseducated with regards to Michael Vick the football player.

  14. #74
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    Yeah, but only judging his ability to throw is like judging a hitter by his batting average only.

    Look at Kerry Collins he coudn't win -- insert Vince Young franchise turned around.

    Its like saying the best running backs can only be judged by yards per carry and all receptions out of the backfield don't matter.
    The ability to throw is the main attribute in a QB, I dont see how you can say that a QB shouldnt be judged only by his ability to throw, isn't that the main job of a QB

    Peyton Manning does not run, he only throws. You only judge him by his ability to throw the ball. You dont take away from his greatness by saying, "He doesnt scramble out of pressure".

    Adrian Peterson was a horrible receiver out of the backfield his first two year. Yet he was still considered the best back in football, even if he didnt have the best hands.

    You judge the position on how successful they are with their main attribute, anything else they do is simply a plus, yes it make them better, but if they dont do that extra it does not make them a bad player.

    Now Vick plays QB, a QB's main job is to throw to WR's TE's and RB's. He does none of that better then our current options, so what is the point in getting him?

  15. #75
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    Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

    Quote Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r View Post
    The ability to throw is the main attribute in a QB, I dont see how you can say that a QB shouldnt be judged only by his ability to throw, isn't that the main job of a QB

    Peyton Manning does not run, he only throws. You only judge him by his ability to throw the ball. You dont take away from his greatness by saying, "He doesnt scramble out of pressure".

    Adrian Peterson was a horrible receiver out of the backfield his first two year. Yet he was still considered the best back in football, even if he didnt have the best hands.

    You judge the position on how successful they are with their main attribute, anything else they do is simply a plus, yes it make them better, but if they dont do that extra it does not make them a bad player.

    Now Vick plays QB, a QB's main job is to throw to WR's TE's and RB's. He does none of that better then our current options, so what is the point in getting him?
    So you're assuming his abilities as a passer have regressed? Certainly you couldn't hold this opinion if you think his ability as a passer didn't decline since he was last a starter. Because if you think Null is a better passer than Vick was in 2006, that certainly is not a logical argument. I often state that Vick was top 10 in the league in total TDs in 3 of his 4 years as a starter. Well in his last year in the league he was top 10 in the league in passing touchdowns. And that is without a starting top 10 WR, not even close to one. Roddy WHite started only 5 games that year. More importantly he did this while having one of the better TD/INT ratios in the league. The idea that people think guys who have as many interceptions as touchdowns or even more interceptions than touchdowns than Vick just because of a ridiculous stat like completion percentage (which Im not even sure was the case) is mind boggling. But I guess some will just not let facts get in the way of their opinion. The Rams QBs stats last season 11 TDs 21 INTs 63.1 in every one's favorite passer rating. Oh but let me guess since they completed 57% of their passes, that means that Vick even if he didn't regress wouldn't be a better than anyone on the Rams roster at the QB position.
    Last edited by JoePublic; -02-09-2010 at 05:02 PM.

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