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  1. #31
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    I do like Cliff Ryan and especially with Suh lined up next too him.


  2. #32
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Optimistic Lamb View Post
    The difference between us is that I don't hold C. Ryan in as high of regard as you do. Is he a solid player, yes. Would he be a legit starter on other teams? hmmm... idk. To me I see Ryan as a solid player in a weak DT rotation. If an opportunity arises to beef up the rotation, I'll jump on it, but only at the right price. If we have to give up an arm and a leg to get him, you will be right in saying that it is a misuse of the team's resources.
    You do know, of course, that Ryan and Dorsey/Suh play two totally different positions?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #33
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    The only reason IMO where we should try to get Dorsey is if we plan to select a QB with our first overall, and not select a DT within the first 3 rounds of the draft.

    Clifton Ryan is a solid nose tackle. He does what is asked of him, which is to stuff up running lanes and take on double teams. He does that well.

    Dorsey on the other hand, is mainly a UT. He has good technique, but doesn't have the durability to withstand a lot of double teams.

    Suh, can play UT AND NT. Has the strength and leverage to play NT, and has the speed and athleticism to play UT.


    To me, I would prefer us drafting Suh and upgrading our other DE spot opposite of Long, rather than get ANOTHER starting-caliber DT onto our roster. It's a luxury we shouldn't be considering right now.

  4. #34
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    You do know, of course, that Ryan and Dorsey/Suh play two totally different positions?
    What?

    Can you explain this further?

  5. #35
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    You do know, of course, that Ryan and Dorsey/Suh play two totally different positions?
    Not necessarily true. Ryan, like Carriker, has played both DT positions for the Rams in the past. Played 34 DE in college too (5 tech), which usually translates to a 43 UT (3 tech). Very similar in regards to Suh as far as versatility goes, although not on Suh's level. I could see him being a back up at either spot and possibly a starting NT depending how the off season goes. He's definitely not limited to just one position though.

  6. #36
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Optimistic Lamb View Post
    What?

    Can you explain this further?
    There are Nose Tackles (like Clifton Ryan) and there are Under Tackles (like Dorsey and Suh)
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  7. #37
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Not necessarily true. Ryan, like Carriker, has played both DT positions for the Rams in the past.
    Ramzee, I've never seen a game where Ryan was playing UT. And the Carriker at NT experiment didn't exactly go well.

    Cliff Ryan is an NT.
    Dorsey and Suh are both UT.

    Any utilization of them in a different position on more than a gimmick basis would be playing them out of position (much like having Vick as the starting QB.....but that's a different topic).
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #38
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Doesn't Spags system not have UT or NT? I thought it was only LT and RT.

  9. #39
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Ramzee, I've never seen a game where Ryan was playing UT. And the Carriker at NT experiment didn't exactly go well.

    Cliff Ryan is an NT.
    Dorsey and Suh are both UT.

    Any utilization of them in a different position on more than a gimmick basis would be playing them out of position (much like having Vick as the starting QB.....but that's a different topic).
    I think you have, you probably just didn't know it or look for it. When Carriker was playing NT, I assure you, Ryan was playing UT. They were interchangeable their rookie year, not just figuratively but literally.

    They're also interchangeable here too in this system. The above poster is right, Spags runs a LT/RT system instead of the traditional NT/UT. It doesn't mean we don't have a NT or an UT on any given play, we do, it's just that he likes versatility and doesn't want to limit his guys to just being one or the other. The responsibilities change based on alignment (the technique they line up as) and he likes those responsibilities to be universal and interchangeable on any given play. I'm sure you've seen Ryan lineup at 3 tech during games last year too, as well as NT.

    It's one of the reasons Suh has such added value imho to Spags system. Being from a college 2 gap system and being best suited as a 1 gap penetrator. Not to say McCoy isn't but Suh definitely has the edge here.

  10. #40
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianRamsFan View Post
    Doesn't Spags system not have UT or NT? I thought it was only LT and RT.
    See my last post for explanation.

  11. #41
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Forget Dorsey, Suh is better and not injury-prone.

  12. #42
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Id keep Carriker, slim him down a bit and make him a run stuffing DE opposite Long, hes too tall for the tackle spot. Get Suh and have Ryan, Scott, Ramsey battle it out for the 4rth starting spot.I know Carriker is not fast but your pressure would come from Long and Suh and the others could mop up if the pocket moves. We need LBs more than an underachiever 1rst round pick, hell we've had plenty of those.

    And for all we know Carriker is a probowler or a metermaid, he hasnt played enough to show anybody anything.

  13. #43
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Its funny how much is being made of the different DL spots, beat the man infront of you and tackle. Stay under your man to keep leverage, basically the SAME thing they've been doing all there lives to get to this point.

  14. #44
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by dave626 View Post
    Its funny how much is being made of the different DL spots, beat the man infront of you and tackle. Stay under your man to keep leverage, basically the SAME thing they've been doing all there lives to get to this point.
    If only it were so simple. And a lot of these guys haven't been doing this there whole life up until this point. Carriker's problem isn't that he's too tall, it's that he plays too tall and loses the leverage battle by default due to his style of play. He got away with it in college but clearly can't get by on that alone in the pros. So it's an adjustment. Suh appears to have a problem with this as well and we will see how much that is, if any, at the next level.

  15. #45
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    Re: Glen Dorsey to > Rams: Makes sense...

    I think you have, you probably just didn't know it or look for it.
    As I said before, Zach, there will always be situational formations that will include multiple UTs or multiple NTs. Moving DEs into UT assignment (think Spags use of Tuck) or jumbo short yardage formations with an extra Tackle. It's not versatility that we are talking about. It's their base assignment that's being discussed. Ryan is a NT. That is his base assignment that fits his skill set best. Suh is a UT (as is Dorsey since it's germane to the conversation). That fits his skill set best.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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