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Thread: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    He would have to beat out Eugene Sims first...


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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    That's a good point. As AV points out above, he wouldn't be the 3rd DE, but rather the 4th DE.

    Good catch, fortu.
    When you guys rejoin the rest of us here on Earth, please let me know. You're missing a pretty good discussion down here.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    When you guys rejoin the rest of us here on Earth, please let me know. You're missing a pretty good discussion down here.
    I don't blame you. I'd try to stay away from the facts as well.

    Facts such as:

    1. this team does not need to spend the 2nd pick of the draft to bolster the best unit on the roster
    2. this team absolutely does need to bring in a top OT
    3. as a prospect, Clowney is on par with Matthews
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Nice mock!

    If we didn't have #13 I probably wouldn't be wavering on taking Clowney second overall so much. With the way it shakes out near the top (and if the right amount of underclassmen declare) we could get a quality OT later and come away with a nice haul. IMO, Clowney/Lewan sounds better than Matthews/Clinton-Dix or Matthews/Evans.
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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    I don't blame you. I'd try to stay away from the facts as well.

    Facts such as:

    1. this team does not need to spend the 2nd pick of the draft to bolster the best unit on the roster
    2. this team absolutely does need to bring in a top OT
    3. as a prospect, Clowney is on par with Matthews
    Stay away from facts?

    1. Sometimes it's not as cut and dry as that Hub. Sometimes you just take the BPA and let the chips fall where they may. Obviously the Rams have plenty to look at here, and long term future is not the least of it.

    2. We have the 13th pick as well and I feel that is more than ample ammunition to get a top OT if we so desire.

    3. Clowney has been the number one prospect for over a complete year now. Mathews and others are only being mentioned now because of the media hype that clouded Clowney's season.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Stay away from facts?
    Yes. Such as a comment about some Earth bound discussion you feel that you and nameless others are a part of that does not include the concept of Clowney being anything other than a luxury pick for the Rams.
    1. Sometimes it's not as cut and dry as that Hub. Sometimes you just take the BPA and let the chips fall where they may. Obviously the Rams have plenty to look at here, and long term future is not the least of it.
    I sincerely hope that Fisher and Snead have a better draft strategy than "let the chips fall where they may."
    2. We have the 13th pick as well and I feel that is more than ample ammunition to get a top OT if we so desire.
    I would say there's zero chance of getting Matthews at 13. Slim, if not zero, chance of getting Lewan. One of the lesser ones? Sure.
    3. Clowney has been the number one prospect for over a complete year now. Mathews and others are only being mentioned now because of the media hype that clouded Clowney's season.
    That's simply incorrect. Clowney is the top DE prospect, even the top defensive prospect. But before Matthews decided to stay in school, he was mentioned alongside Joeckel. I've seen just as many opinions give the "top prospect" nod to Matthews as I have Clowney.

    Prospects are always a roll of the dice. None of them are sure bets. Though I'd dare say Matthews is a much safer bet than Clowney. Nonetheless, let's assume both Matthews and Clowney live up to their potential. Clowney as a Ram shares time with two other top notch DEs, and the best rotational DE in the game, until a few years down the road when one or more of the other 3 DEs moves on. Matthews as a Ram is an immediate starter and fixture on the Rams OL.

    With the state of the Rams as they are now, I just don't see the Rams burning the #2 pick on a luxury.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Yes. Such as a comment about some Earth bound discussion you feel that you and nameless others are a part of that does not include the concept of Clowney being anything other than a luxury pick for the Rams. I sincerely hope that Fisher and Snead have a better draft strategy than "let the chips fall where they may."I would say there's zero chance of getting Matthews at 13. Slim, if not zero, chance of getting Lewan. One of the lesser ones? Sure. That's simply incorrect. Clowney is the top DE prospect, even the top defensive prospect. But before Matthews decided to stay in school, he was mentioned alongside Joeckel. I've seen just as many opinions give the "top prospect" nod to Matthews as I have Clowney.

    Prospects are always a roll of the dice. None of them are sure bets. Though I'd dare say Matthews is a much safer bet than Clowney. Nonetheless, let's assume both Matthews and Clowney live up to their potential. Clowney as a Ram shares time with two other top notch DEs, and the best rotational DE in the game, until a few years down the road when one or more of the other 3 DEs moves on. Matthews as a Ram is an immediate starter and fixture on the Rams OL.

    With the state of the Rams as they are now, I just don't see the Rams burning the #2 pick on a luxury.
    You certainly have a right to your opinion, and for the record, I'm not in total disagreement with some of it.

    However, I certainly beg to differ on Mathews being the top prospect that Clowney is. I simply don't believe he is.

    For that matter, I don't even believe an OT can be, by virtue of what he does in a football game, compared to a DE.

    So while Mathews may be the best at his position, his position would rarely if ever allow him to have an impact on a game that Clowney can have.

    A dominant DE can change the outcome of a game by himself. Can an OT do that? Don't think so. He can just block one or two men really well. So as it relates to the actual action on the field, I conclude that it is impossible for an OT to have the impact a DE can have given the same or even near the same level of dominance at their prospective positions.

    The other thing I totally disagree with is if they both are on top of their games, Clowney would be a rotational player.

    That's borderline insanity. Unless you mean for his initial preseason. While I like Chris and believe he's a good player, he's yet to make a probowl in his 5 or 6 years. So it's not like Clowney would have to beat out Reggie White or Bruce Smith.
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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    So while Mathews may be the best at his position, his position would rarely if ever allow him to have an impact on a game that Clowney can have.
    Actually, a guy in Matthews' position would likely line up accross from a guy in Clowney's position. Therefore, it would stand to reason that if Matthews (or any other LT) were to shut down Clowney (or any other top end-rusher), he'd be having a huge impact on the game.
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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    For that matter, I don't even believe an OT can be, by virtue of what he does in a football game, compared to a DE.

    So while Mathews may be the best at his position, his position would rarely if ever allow him to have an impact on a game that Clowney can have.

    A dominant DE can change the outcome of a game by himself. Can an OT do that? Don't think so. He can just block one or two men really well. So as it relates to the actual action on the field, I conclude that it is impossible for an OT to have the impact a DE can have given the same or even near the same level of dominance at their prospective positions.
    So a DE can change a game. But an OT, whose job it is to stop a DE, can't? So as to be clear, the OT that stops the "game changing" DE is, by definition, changing the game. Much as the Wisconsin LT nullified this same "game changing" DE just yesterday.
    The other thing I totally disagree with is if they both are on top of their games, Clowney would be a rotational player.

    That's borderline insanity. Unless you mean for his initial preseason.
    So you would suggest that, if drafted, Clowney will be a starting DE at Week 1?
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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    So a DE can change a game. But an OT, whose job it is to stop a DE, can't? So as to be clear, the OT that stops the "game changing" DE is, by definition, changing the game. Much as the Wisconsin LT nullified this same "game changing" DE just yesterday.
    Get out of my brain!

    So you would suggest that, if drafted, Clowney will be a starting DE at Week 1?
    But, HUb... Clowney had 13 sacks in an NCAA season once! What has Chris Long ever done?

    I mean, apart from having 13 sacks in an NFL season?
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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Actually, a guy in Matthews' position would likely line up accross from a guy in Clowney's position. Therefore, it would stand to reason that if Matthews (or any other LT) were to shut down Clowney (or any other top end-rusher), he'd be having a huge impact on the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    So a DE can change a game. But an OT, whose job it is to stop a DE, can't?
    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing as I caught up with this thread.

    If a dominant DE can change the outcome of a game by himself, then surely a lineman who can neutralize that kind of DE can be considered a game changer as well.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    The thing I hate so much about all this, is when people say "Jake Mathews is so safe.. You plug him in and let him hold it down for 10+ years"... This BS and garbage like that is clouding people's evaluations and it's nearly SICKENING. Clowney is pegged as "boom or bust", "risky", "bad work ethic", but Mathews is "safe", "10+ year starter", "flawless"...... Ok, let's relax here and get back to the tape.

    Both guys are good players. There are a ton of good OT prospects. I simply slide with the BPA. Clowney is so good and so special that he allows me to do this. Remember when we took Jason Smith? We sat there and took him at #2. The Bengals took Andre Smith at #6 and Jaguars take Eugene Monroe at #8. Both Monroe and Smith are 50x better than Jason Smith. Oh yeah, how "safe" was Aaron Curry? LMAO!

    Now I am not saying Jake Mathews is a bad prospect or anything like that. I'm not even saying you can't prefer him to Clowney. What I am saying is don't give me that garbage like "safe" "and 10 year starter" as reasons why he is worth the #2 pick over a prospect such as Clowney.


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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    The thing I hate so much about all this, is when people say "Jake Mathews is so safe.. You plug him in and let him hold it down for 10+ years"... This BS and garbage like that is clouding people's evaluations and it's nearly SICKENING.
    So I'm guessing that you're equally sickened by those who would cloud evaluations with the hyperbole of Clowney being a "once in a decade" talent, right?
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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Get out of my brain!



    But, HUb... Clowney had 13 sacks in an NCAA season once! What has Chris Long ever done?

    I mean, apart from having 13 sacks in an NFL season?
    Oh and exactly how long did that take, uuhhh........4 years.

    So while 13 sacks in a season in the NFL is impressive, the 17.5 over 3 years to start his career are not particularly since Robert Quinn just had 19 this passed season.

    So while you bash Clowney for what you deem an unproductive season, perhaps you want to take a look in your own backyard first, before you continue with this nonsense.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Oh and exactly how long did that take, uuhhh........4 years.

    So while 13 sacks in a season in the NFL is impressive, the 17.5 over 3 years to start his career are not particularly since Robert Quinn just had 19 this passed season.

    So while you bash Clowney for what you deem an unproductive season, perhaps you want to take a look in your own backyard first, before you continue with this nonsense.
    Clowney (2013): 3.0 sacks against college OL
    Long (2013): 8.5 sacks against Pro OL

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