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Thread: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    So I'm guessing that you're equally sickened by those who would cloud evaluations with the hyperbole of Clowney being a "once in a decade" talent, right?
    Relatively so. It's not as bad, but that exact phrase is thrown out every single year for some specific player that at this point, it has relatively close to no meaning,



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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    How about this analysis:

    If the Rams pass on Jake Matthews and, as a result, don't have a strong LT in place, it could substantially impact Sam Bradford's peformance and subject him to hits which could lead to injury.

    If the Rams pass on Jadeveon Clowney, they will still have one of the top DE rotations in the NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Relatively so. It's not as bad
    Oh believe me, it is.
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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    So a DE can change a game. But an OT, whose job it is to stop a DE, can't? So as to be clear, the OT that stops the "game changing" DE is, by definition, changing the game. Much as the Wisconsin LT nullified this same "game changing" DE just yesterday.So you would suggest that, if drafted, Clowney will be a starting DE at Week 1?
    When Jake Mathews neutralizes Jadaveon Clowney one on one in a game, that's when I'll believe he is as good a prospect. Until then, you have your opinion and I have mine.

    Nullified?????

    I saw a player being doubled and run away from most of the time. When Wisconsin did run his way, he was in on the play. 5 tackles, a couple hits on the QB, a couple pressures, and a tackle for a loss. For most DEs that's a great game, but for Clowney, it's about average.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    How about this analysis:

    If the Rams pass on Jake Matthews and, as a result, don't have a strong LT in place, it could substantially impact Sam Bradford's peformance and subject him to hits which could lead to injury.

    If the Rams pass on Jadeveon Clowney, they will still have one of the top DE rotations in the NFL.
    I don't believe anybody's debating the fact that we should draft a good prospect that plays OT. The difference of opinion simply lies in when to draft him.

    And the fact that Jake Mathews is rated the number one tackle means absolutely nothing as far as injuries to Sam Bradford are concerned. Sam Bradford could get injured trotting out to the huddle or celebrating a TD or running to the sideline. None of which Anthony Munoz could positively affect, let alone Jake Mathews. So yes, that's a poor analogy.

    With Clowney they'd have the very best, just sayin'.

    But bottom line is, a trade down is the best case scenario because none of those players alone are likely to out produce 2 or 3 additional players.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Clowney (2013): 3.0 sacks against college OL
    Long (2013): 8.5 sacks against Pro OL
    That's 3 sacks while dogging it according to you. Probably translates to say.....double digits if he's really playing. Besides, I doubt he benefitted from having the best DE in the league on the other side.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Yeah, you keep saying that Clowney is the best, but his performance this year simply does not support that. I don't buy the double-team argument. There are plenty of pass rushers in college who face double teams and still put up more than 3 sacks.

    In my mind, there are two explanations for Clowney's diminished productivity (which, by the way, was also evident in his tackles and TFL numbers):

    1. He is not as good as some people think he is; or
    2. He was dogging it because he didn't want to risk injury.

    Neither of these explanations are favorable to him as a draft prospect.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Here's an interesting comparison:

    Player #1
    is a 6'6, 274 lb., DE who played in the SEC, and had 35 tackles, 10.5 TFL, 3.0 sacks, 0 Int., 2 PD, and 1 FF in 2013.

    Player #2 is a 6'5, 275 lb. DE who played in the SEC, and had 31 tackles, 9.0 TFL, 5.0 sacks, 1 Int., 5 PD and 1 FF in 2013.

    Sounds pretty comparable, no?

    Player #1 is Jadeveon Clowney.

    Anyone know who Player #2 is?

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Actually, a guy in Matthews' position would likely line up accross from a guy in Clowney's position. Therefore, it would stand to reason that if Matthews (or any other LT) were to shut down Clowney (or any other top end-rusher), he'd be having a huge impact on the game.
    Never said he couldn't have a huge impact on the game. Said he couldn't possibly have the same impact a DE could by virtue of the position he plays.

    Sure he could be dominant blocking on one small portion of the field, but a DE can wreak havoc by sacking the QB, hitting the QB, pressuring the QB, causing fumbles, deflecting passes, making tackles for loss, intercepting passes on rare occassions, and scoring touchdowns.

    Never once saw an Offensive lineman receive an MVP trophy at the end of any game on any level and never will.

    I believe we can close this chapter.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Who had a bigger impact on the Rams Super Bowl Champion team... Kevin Carter or Orlando Pace?

    NOW, I believe we can close this chapter.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Yeah, you keep saying that Clowney is the best, but his performance this year simply does not support that. I don't buy the double-team argument. There are plenty of pass rushers in college who face double teams and still put up more than 3 sacks.

    In my mind, there are two explanations for Clowney's diminished productivity (which, by the way, was also evident in his tackles and TFL numbers):

    1. He is not as good as some people think he is; or
    2. He was dogging it because he didn't want to risk injury.

    Neither of these explanations are favorable to him as a draft prospect.
    Well, if it's the latter, while it may not be favorable, it was certainly understandable, and thus will not hurt his draft status at all.

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Yeah, you keep saying that Clowney is the best, but his performance this year simply does not support that. I don't buy the double-team argument. There are plenty of pass rushers in college who face double teams and still put up more than 3 sacks.

    In my mind, there are two explanations for Clowney's diminished productivity (which, by the way, was also evident in his tackles and TFL numbers):

    1. He is not as good as some people think he is; or
    2. He was dogging it because he didn't want to risk injury.

    Neither of these explanations are favorable to him as a draft prospect.
    Well considering almost everyone who is paid to evaluate players continuously rate Jadeveon Clowney as their top guy, I think you can exclude the "He is not as good as people think" argument.... There is a reason everyone and their mothers thinks he is the top guy. If you can't see it, that's fine, we all have differing opinions, but when it's 500 vs 1, I don't get how your argument of "I don't think he's good he had 3 sacks" is going to hold up or have any virtue to it.


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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Well, if it's the latter, while it may not be favorable, it was certainly understandable, and thus will not hurt his draft status at all.
    If I were a GM, it would for my team. I want guys who love the game and could never imagine stepping on the field and giving less than 100%. Guys who do it for a paycheck worry me (See Alex Barron, Albert Haynesworth, etc.).

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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Well considering almost everyone who is paid to evaluate players continuously rate Jadeveon Clowney as their top guy.
    Really? This one Jake Matthews has him at #2 behind, you guessed it... Jake Matthews:
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    Re: Happy New Year! Nick's First Mock of 2014, Surprise Pick from Me @ 2nd Overall

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Who had a bigger impact on the Rams Super Bowl Champion team... Kevin Carter or Orlando Pace?

    NOW, I believe we can close this chapter.
    Would have to look that up. But it still wouldn't change anything.

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