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  1. #16
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    It tells me that with some good coaching V Gholston has a lot more
    up side Than C Long !!
    Jim Tressel's program doesn't have good coaching?

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #17
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    The ? is who and what kind of competition did C Long get his 14 SACKS against??

    Compared against who and what kind of competition V Gholston got his 14 SACKS??
    Yes, Randy, we get the question. The answer is both Long and Gholston played against Division 1 offensive linemen. And if we really want to push the issue, Gholston's LEO position was designed to move him away from double teams, whereas Long spent the vast majority of his time as a 3-4 DE taking on double teams every snap.

    So if we really want to look at through the "tougher competition" kaleidiscope, Long saw tougher competition just from the sheer number of linemen he had to go through to get to the QB.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #18
    RANDYRAM Guest

    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Come on, Randy; this is just silly. Vernon Gholston beats Jake Long on 1 snap of the 72 attempts, and that's supposed to mean something?

    Okay, I'll play along........how 'bout this?

    WHO did NOT get beat by Jake Long over the past 4 years? It wasn't Vernon Gholston!! C. Long@#2



    See what I mean, Randy? Kind of silly, huh?
    You are right HUB we should not count that sack against J Long
    it was
    just silly of me to think when the top OT in the draft
    GETS KNOCKED on his BACKSIDE for his only sack given up! That doesn't
    count! YA RIGHT

  4. #19
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    The Guy Got Beat For One Play!!! It Happens To Everyone!!! Let It Go!!! He Stopped So Gholston 71 Times!!! Maybe He Just Felt Bad For The Guy!!! Tell Me How Many Sacks Joe Thomas Gave Up!!! Tell Me How Many Sacks Robert Gallery Gave Up!!! How About Orlando Pace!!! I Bet It Wasn't 2!!!

    You Don't Need To Use Caps For No Freaking Reason!!!

  5. #20
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Identical 10-splits, though Long had the faster 10-split at the Combine
    Their 10-yard splits at the combine were identical - 1.53 seconds.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Three
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



  6. #21
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    I think either DE would be a great fit for our rams. Vernon Gholston is outstanding. Chris Long is good and a son of the one and only Howie Long. Both have great work ethics.

    However, which is better than the other? Sure, in college its one story, but after the college games...NFL is what counts. And we'll find out whos better here in several months.

  7. #22
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Randy, he's not saying that we shouldn't count that sack. However, everyone makes it bigger than it really is because it happens to be the only sack he gave up in the last three years. Statistically, it makes sense that it was him, as he played him every year and Gholston is a top collegiate pass rusher in a position designed to put him one on one.

    Another example of how it's made too much of a big deal is your own post.
    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM
    just silly of me to think when the top OT in the draft
    GETS KNOCKED on his BACKSIDE for his only sack given up! That doesn't
    count! YA RIGHT
    No, it does count, but how many other tackles have ever gone three years without giving up a sack? He was due. Against an elite pass rusher it makes sense that it would come against Gholston. In football, if you take one misstep or hesitate for half a second you get beat. One minus against seventy pluses doesn't make a huge impact.

    Think of it this way. If you failed making three peanut butter and jelly sandwiches in two hundred attempts, would you even notice? How about if you only were able to successfully make three in two hundred attempts?

  8. #23
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Think of it this way. If you failed making three peanut and butter in two hundred attempts, would you even notice?
    If you stood to make $30 million doing it...

  9. #24
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    The ? is who and what kind of competition did C Long get his 14 SACKS against??

    Compared against who and what kind of competition V Gholston got his 14 SACKS??
    While the ACC was down, so was the Big Ten...so I'm filing that under "push"

    If C long went 100% every game and got 14 sacks. Then V Gholston from what Ive heard on this site took 1/2 the games off and still got 14 sacks!
    Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but I tend to fixate on the bolded part rather than the number of sacks he got.

    And we all know that C Long has better use of his hands and better
    coaching from his HOF dad!!
    Which means the Rams won't have to teach him mechanics, but can skip straight to the playbook. "Plus" in his favor.

    It tells me that with some good coaching V Gholston has a lot more
    up side Than C Long !! He also faced tougher competition and came
    up BIG in BIG games!!
    While Jim Tressel neither runs a clean program nor suffers for high quality recruits, the fact of the matter is that he is 203-78-2 over his career, has one D-IA National title, and 4 D-IAA National Titles (building Youngstown State from nothing to a national power in the process.) There are worse coaches, methinks.

    Oh...BTW, for the big games thing...was he really big in the last two OSU National Championship losses?

    C Long already knows how to use his hands and is closer to his peek
    than V Gholston! This why I like Gholston! He has some learning to do
    but it might be worth the wait!
    There was a time I thought Jimmy Kennedy was worth the wait as well.

    If he's not this franchise just wasted $30 million. It is much better to go with the relatively sure thing than taking a gamble on someone who might be slightly better, but could easily be worse.

  10. #25
    RANDYRAM Guest

    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooselini View Post
    I think either DE would be a great fit for our rams. Vernon Gholston is outstanding. Chris Long is good and a son of the one and only Howie Long. Both have great work ethics.

    However, which is better than the other? Sure, in college its one story, but after the college games...NFL is what counts. And we'll find out whos better here in several months.

    YOU GOT IT! Mooselini.

    THIS CAPS 4 U!! RED YOU HAVE IT 2!
    MY FRIENDS CALL ME THE CALMING INFLUENCE!!
    Last edited by RANDYRAM; -04-16-2008 at 12:52 AM.

  11. #26
    RANDYRAM Guest

    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    While the ACC was down, so was the Big Ten...so I'm filing that under "push"

    SO what your saying is that playing against the best team in the nation
    4 the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP DOESN'T COUNT!!!
    (Plus 4 VG)


    Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but I tend to fixate on the bolded part rather than the number of sacks he got.

    Thats funny! I thought the Rams needed a sacks specialist!!
    not a run stopper the rams have those already("Plus" 4 VG)


    Which means the Rams won't have to teach him mechanics, but can skip straight to the playbook. "Plus" in his favor.

    I agree!



    While Jim Tressel neither runs a clean program nor suffers for high quality recruits, the fact of the matter is that he is 203-78-2 over his career, has one D-IA National title, and 4 D-IAA National Titles (building Youngstown State from nothing to a national power in the process.) There are worse coaches, methinks.

    Oh...BTW, for the big games thing...was he really big in the last two OSU National Championship losses?

    Where were YOU and C Long sitting at home watching TV WISHING YOU WERE THERE !!!

    There was a time I thought Jimmy Kennedy was worth the wait as well.

    Not every pic is a winner it's 50/50 at best!! C Long could fall off his motorcycle you never know 4 sure???

    If he's not this franchise just wasted $30 million. It is much better to go with the relatively sure thing than taking a gamble on someone who might be slightly better, but could easily be worse.
    Big deal they wasted 30 mill last year on WR Bennett! 65 mill on Bulger!!
    and how much have they wasted on Olando pace and Pisa 50 the last few years!
    Cut the only GOOD FB this team had in years??

    Traded the only starter TE and drafted 2 TE flops

    Took Ty hill instead of cormartie.

    They are going to waste 30 mill on somebody ???
    THIS IS BS THESE ROOKIES GET THIS KIND OF $$$:\

  12. #27
    evil disco man's Avatar
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    Big deal they wasted 30 mill last year on WR Bennett! 65 mill on Bulger!!
    and how much have they wasted on Olando pace and Pisa 50 the last few years!
    Cut the only GOOD FB this team had in years??

    Traded the only starter TE and drafted 2 TE flops

    Took Ty hill instead of cormartie.

    They are going to waste 30 mill on somebody ???
    THIS IS BS THESE ROOKIES GET THIS KIND OF $$$:\


    So... what you're saying is, because they've wasted all that money they should go ahead and waste some more? I don't get it.

    :l

    -jake-

  13. #28
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Their 10-yard splits at the combine were identical - 1.53 seconds.
    Are you sure? I thought Gholston ran 1.59 split at the Combine and 1.53 at his Pro day. Or was it the other way around? Either way, he ran a 1.59 once and 1.53 once.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  14. #29
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    You are right HUB we should not count that sack against J Long
    it was
    just silly of me to think when the top OT in the draft
    GETS KNOCKED on his BACKSIDE for his only sack given up! That doesn't
    count! YA RIGHT
    Randy, which is more indicative? The ONE time Gholston beat Long, or the 71 times he didn't?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  15. #30
    TekeRam's Avatar
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    Re: How good is Gholston? Just ask Michigan's Long

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    Big deal they wasted 30 mill last year on WR Bennett!
    I'll give you this one, because he wasn't that good last year. However, let me remind you that playing in the slot and getting short dump passes isn't how he should be used and hasn't been how he was successful in Tennessee.
    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    65 mill on Bulger!!
    and how much have they wasted on Olando pace and Pisa 50 the last few years!
    10million/year for a pro bowl QB who after he broke several ribs and got a concussion, STILL wanted to go out and play? When the season was done for anyway, and he stood to maybe have a career threatening, or even life threatening, injury due to the ones he already sustained? That's a waste? Same goes for Pace, who hasn't been healthy, yes, but when he is, he's one of the best tackles in the game? Pisa can't go a whole season, true, but he continues to play even after he breaks bones and was pissed when he was put on IR last year because he wanted to come back.

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    Cut the only GOOD FB this team had in years??
    One thing, Hedgecock was never that amazing when he was here. That said, I agree that it was a mistake to let him go, as we got no use out of the guy who replaced him. However, we'll see what happens this year with Leonard. Perhaps after a year of conditioning and strength training he can become a Mike Alstott.

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    Traded the only starter TE and drafted 2 TE flops
    Manumaleuna was never great when he was with us either. He blocked ok and caught the occasional pass. We also got a rather good ransom for him from the Chargers. For the Chargers he caught some passes and blocked ok. Nothing special. As for our pickups, Byrd was stupid, I admit that. Klop never was given a shot. He started on day one, was used as a blocker, which he can't do, and wasn't used as a receiver, which he is. Then they benched him for his second year. Now they have a former first round blocking TE. What can you expect from the guy when they keep bringing in vets to put ahead of him. Not his fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    Took Ty hill instead of cormartie.
    He was higher on the draft chart due to injury concerns. Get over it. Oh, and their names are Tye Hill and Antonio Cromartie, for future reference.
    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    They are going to waste 30 mill on somebody ???
    THIS IS BS THESE ROOKIES GET THIS KIND OF $$$:\
    We actually agree on something else. I agree with Bill Polian, the Colts' President in saying that the draft is broken. It needs to have slotted draft picks, but for some reason the union is opposed to it, even though that it would mean more money to veterans, and a more balanced pay scale for all rookies, not just the guys at the top. As for wasting money on someone at #2, it depends on who they take. If they take one of the Longs, I doubt it will be a waste as they are both firmly established players who are intelligent and have a great football IQ and awareness. Dorsey will overfill a position and yes, we'll waste money on either him or Carriker as they rotate in and out. With Gholston, he'll either be a good pick, or a horrid one that puts us in Lionsville. I'd rather go with a safe one and pick outside the top 10 next year.
    Last edited by TekeRam; -04-16-2008 at 11:26 AM.

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