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  1. #16
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by swatter555 View Post
    I think a point everyone wants to miss is that a great QB pick could propel the Rams to a much better record while a great DT pick will not. Suh may be a stud (time will ultimately tell), but is not the most important piece we need right now. If Suh is a stud, we lose games next year 25-10 rather than 35-10 (and thats being very generous).

    One thing I cannot disagree with more is the notion we are going to find an undrafted or 5th round gem... thats a dumb thing to bet on.
    And with Clausen we lose them 35-17. We're going to lose games next year regardless of who we take-however it is likely that Suh is going to be far more useful in the long run for this team.


  2. #17
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Clausen is a good prospect, and while he had good measurables, he was 16-18 at Notre Dame despite playing on a team with better than average talent. I don't see much difference between Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn.

    And if you're going to look at drafts, I think you need to look at more than the last two. For every Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford, there's a JaMarcus Russell and Alex Smith. "Franchise quarterback" is a tough title to earn, and finding one is a crapshoot.

    When a team in free-fall is picking first, they have to get it right. Choosing the wrong guy can set a franchise back years in the re-building process. Suh is seen as the BPA, has the resume to back it up, fills a vital need for the Rams, and IMO is the best bet to realize his potential.
    Clausen was not 16-18, ND was. You can't place the blame on one player, especially this past season. Offense was not NDs problem this year. And to compare him to Quinn, implying that he will also be a bust, is unfair to say the least. Clausen has a stronger arm, is a more accurate passer, is much, much better when the defense brings pressure, and is simply a better prospect than Quinn was coming out. BTW, it's too early to call Alex Smith a bust. He's played very well this year. Russel might not be a bust either, although he's certainly on that road. Then again, so was Smith.

    You can't single out the QB position when it comes to calling high draft picks a crap shoot. Dorsey was considered to be a sure thing as well, and he has underperformed and is well on his way to being a bust. Suh is a better prospect than Dorsey was, but not even he is guaranteed to be a HOFer in the NFL.

  3. #18
    yesman is offline Registered User
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooselini View Post
    Great post. I don't think anything could've made a better argument than this right here.

    The point is, we have way too many holes to fill. We allowed 137 rushing yards a game. That is 27th in the league.

    There is a prospect who had better stats than entire defensive lines! How do you pass that up? Suh is outperforming entire defensive lines. We happen to need a defensive tackle.

    Yes, we need a QB, but I would rather get the sure pick than a QB who had a losing record in his school.
    27th is pretty good for a team that was the 32nd best team in the league. And you can't blame NDs record on Clausen. He's only played three seasons. The first was as a true freshman. He played fairly well in his second year. He was the best QB in the nation in his third year. NDs pathetic defense is to blame when it comes to the record, not Clausen.

  4. #19
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    And with Clausen we lose them 35-17. We're going to lose games next year regardless of who we take-however it is likely that Suh is going to be far more useful in the long run for this team.
    Not if Clausen is a franchise QB. A pro bowl DT doesn't make nearly the same impact as a franchise QB.

  5. #20
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by yesman View Post
    Not if Clausen is a franchise QB. A pro bowl DT doesn't make nearly the same impact as a franchise QB.
    So why did Chicago go 6-10 with TEH GLORIOUS FRANCHISE QB!!!!!!111111one this season? I think most people would contend that Jay Cutler fits into that category.

    We can do 6-10 with a lock down defense and a game manager QB easily. Why burn a pick on Clausen then?

  6. #21
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    the ignorance here is astounding. i understand you guys have nothing to go on as far as players here are concerned but since when are jay cutler and clausen the same guy? Jay cutler touchdowns and picks in a 1:2 ratio. Thats why they lose games, sub par defense, and QB throwing the ball away, last tiem i checked not all QB's do that. Clausen TD to Int ratio is 7:1, sounds damn good to me, and all that "sub par" competition is still D-1 guys. Offense wasnt teh prob for ND, they couldnt stop the other offense from scoring

    That being said i want us to trade down and pick up another first or second rounder for Suh, as much as i love the guy, this draft stinks of talent, grab the one A grade? or the 3 B+'s?

  7. #22
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    the ignorance here is astounding. i understand you guys have nothing to go on as far as players here are concerned but since when are jay cutler and clausen the same guy? Jay cutler touchdowns and picks in a 1:2 ratio. Thats why they lose games, sub par defense, and QB throwing the ball away, last tiem i checked not all QB's do that. Clausen TD to Int ratio is 7:1, sounds damn good to me, and all that "sub par" competition is still D-1 guys. Offense wasnt teh prob for ND, they couldnt stop the other offense from scoring
    My point was that Cutler was considered a franchise quarterback, and yet Chicago did not succeed. Clearly franchise quarterbacks are not automatic game changers.

    Also, please tell me you understand that there is a huge talent disparity within Division I. Notre Dame didn't play that many good teams, and they played no great teams this season. A 7:1 TD ratio in such an environment is utterly meaningless.

    That being said i want us to trade down and pick up another first or second rounder for Suh, as much as i love the guy, this draft stinks of talent, grab the one A grade? or the 3 B+'s?
    We have plenty of B or B+ grade players now, and went 1-15. I'm ready to try getting some A's or A+'s.

  8. #23
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    So why did Chicago go 6-10 with TEH GLORIOUS FRANCHISE QB!!!!!!111111one this season? I think most people would contend that Jay Cutler fits into that category.

    We can do 6-10 with a lock down defense and a game manager QB easily. Why burn a pick on Clausen then?
    First, Jay Cutler is not a franchise QB. He passed for a lot of yards in Denver, but he also threw a lot of picks. He had a QB rating under 80 this year. He has never had a passer rating of 90 in his career. I was shocked when the bears gave up so many draft picks to get him. He was one of the most overrated players in the NFL.

    Second, one player at any particular position doesn't guarantee that a team will be successful. But a franchise QB has more impact on the game than any other position.

  9. #24
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by yesman View Post
    First, Jay Cutler is not a franchise QB. He passed for a lot of yards in Denver, but he also threw a lot of picks. He had a QB rating under 80 this year. He has never had a passer rating of 90 in his career. I was shocked when the bears gave up so many draft picks to get him. He was one of the most overrated players in the NFL.

    Second, one player at any particular position doesn't guarantee that a team will be successful. But a franchise QB has more impact on the game than any other position.
    This time last year, if you had asked most fans if Cutler was a franchise quarterback, they would have said yes. You cannot turn around and say he isn't now.

  10. #25
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    the ignorance here is astounding. i understand you guys have nothing to go on as far as players here are concerned but since when are jay cutler and clausen the same guy? Jay cutler touchdowns and picks in a 1:2 ratio. Thats why they lose games, sub par defense, and QB throwing the ball away, last tiem i checked not all QB's do that. Clausen TD to Int ratio is 7:1, sounds damn good to me, and all that "sub par" competition is still D-1 guys. Offense wasnt teh prob for ND, they couldnt stop the other offense from scoring

    That being said i want us to trade down and pick up another first or second rounder for Suh, as much as i love the guy, this draft stinks of talent, grab the one A grade? or the 3 B+'s?
    Good post. 7:1 ratio is extremely impressive. I agree that trading down would be the best option, but it unlikely that any team will trade for the #1 because it's so expensive. Nobody will trade away picks and still have to pay Suh 10 million per year. It's possible that a team might trade up to take a QB, but that's very unlikely. The NFL really needs the draft cap like they have in basketball. Hopefully this is the last season teams have to worry about the crazy money top picks get.

  11. #26
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    This time last year, if you had asked most fans if Cutler was a franchise quarterback, they would have said yes. You cannot turn around and say he isn't now.
    Most fans would have been wrong. Like I said, he was extremely overrated. He was solid, but not franchise. How can a franchise QB never complete 64% of his passes or have a 90 QB rating? His highest rating was 88.5. Hell, Orton almost did that this year, and he's an average QB. Cutler was an above average QB on the Broncos, nothing more, nothing less. He was far below average this season for the Bears.

  12. #27
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by yesman View Post
    Clausen was not 16-18, ND was. You can't place the blame on one player, especially this past season. Offense was not NDs problem this year. And to compare him to Quinn, implying that he will also be a bust, is unfair to say the least. Clausen has a stronger arm, is a more accurate passer, is much, much better when the defense brings pressure, and is simply a better prospect than Quinn was coming out. BTW, it's too early to call Alex Smith a bust. He's played very well this year. Russel might not be a bust either, although he's certainly on that road. Then again, so was Smith.

    You can't single out the QB position when it comes to calling high draft picks a crap shoot. Dorsey was considered to be a sure thing as well, and he has underperformed and is well on his way to being a bust. Suh is a better prospect than Dorsey was, but not even he is guaranteed to be a HOFer in the NFL.
    Clausen was in essence, the "franchise QB" at Notre Dame, and couldn't make a big enough difference in three years of trying. I just don't see him doing anything different with the Rams. IMO he's good, not great. For the #1 pick, you need great.

    I singled out QB's being crap shoots because if you miss, it really puts your team in a hole. Just ask the Browns.

    Again, I like Clausen, but he never wowed me at Notre Dame. Not enough to justify the first pick. That's just the way I see it.

    As far as Dorsey being seen as a sure thing, the fact that he slipped to the fifth pick says more than anything else.

    By the way, welcome to ClanRam. Your posts have been well thoughout and well presented. Keep it up.

  13. #28
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Clausen was in essence, the "franchise QB" at Notre Dame, and couldn't make a big enough difference in three years of trying. I just don't see him doing anything different with the Rams. IMO he's good, not great. For the #1 pick, you need great.

    I singled out QB's being crap shoots because if you miss, it really puts your team in a hole. Just ask the Browns.

    Again, I like Clausen, but he never wowed me at Notre Dame. Not enough to justify the first pick. That's just the way I see it.

    As far as Dorsey being seen as a sure thing, the fact that he slipped to the fifth pick says more than anything else.

    By the way, welcome to ClanRam. Your posts have been well thoughout and well presented. Keep it up.
    Clausen made gradual improvement over his three year career. In his third year, he was great. 68%, 7:1 QB rating in a pro-style offense is phenomenal. His team wasn't that good because the defense stank.

  14. #29
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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by yesman View Post
    Clausen made gradual improvement over his three year career. In his third year, he was great. 68%, 7:1 QB rating in a pro-style offense is phenomenal. His team wasn't that good because the defense stank.
    Without a player the caliber of Suh, the Rams defense will most likely stink too.

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    Re: I hope we learn something from the lions last year and the Falcons the year befor

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Without a player the caliber of Suh, the Rams defense will most likely stink too.
    And without a franchise QB, the offense will probably stink as well.

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