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Thread: If we get the first pick int he draft???

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Maybe I'm mistaken, but I believe Palmer was had for a 2012 first and a 2013 second, a 1, 2, as it were; not 1,1,2,3.
    This is accurate, although that 2013 second rounder is conditional and can become a first. But from a value perspective, it's a deal in which a 32-year-old non-elite quarterback was traded for one first-round pick and potentially a second first-rounder if things go well in Oakland. So two first-round picks would be my starting point (and certainly not my ending point) if I'm negotiating a trade for the top pick and the opportunity to draft an elite prospect at the position.


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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    This is accurate, although that 2013 second rounder is conditional and can become a first. But from a value perspective, it's a deal in which a 32-year-old non-elite quarterback was traded for one first-round pick and potentially a second first-rounder if things go well in Oakland.
    "Well" here defined as the Raiders playing in the AFC title game next year. I'm not a betting man, but I'd take the under on that one.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    "Well" here defined as the Raiders playing in the AFC title game next year. I'm not a betting man, but I'd take the under on that one.
    Perhaps, but even if the Raiders fail at their goal, they set the bar pretty high with a first and second rounder for a 30+ year old QB who was basically retired until the phone rang. With that in mind, the asking price for the first pick and the right to take Luck is certainly going to be higher than that and, IMO, not just marginally.

    Assuming the team in that spot doesn't just take Luck, I'll be shocked if two first-rounders alone gets it done. Maybe it won't be 3-4 first rounders, but some combination of two firsts, other picks, and players. We won't know until it happens (if it happens), but I just don't see any team taking two firsts for a young, elite prospect when a worn-down Carson Palmer was had for essentially the same thing.

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Perhaps, but even if the Raiders fail at their goal, they set the bar pretty high with a first and second rounder for a 30+ year old QB who was basically retired until the phone rang. With that in mind, the asking price for the first pick and the right to take Luck is certainly going to be higher than that and, IMO, not just marginally.

    Assuming the team in that spot doesn't just take Luck, I'll be shocked if two first-rounders alone gets it done. Maybe it won't be 3-4 first rounders, but some combination of two firsts, other picks, and players. We won't know until it happens (if it happens), but I just don't see any team taking two firsts for a young, elite prospect when a worn-down Carson Palmer was had for essentially the same thing.
    Though you and I don't agree on the true value of Luck, there are two things I think you and I can agree on:

    1. The Raiders made a terrible deal. A deal, highly criticized across the football world. I would dare say a poll of NFL GMs would go 31-1 as to which side won that deal.....and it ain't the Raiders. Carson Palmer's value is not a 1st and a 2nd.

    2. Point 1 leads to Point 2.....value at any given time is merely what one entity will pay for something. If the Colts/Rams find an Al Davis (God rest his soul) out there on draft day, they may be able to rob someone too.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    But terrible or not, I'm sure all 31 of those GMs would insist on using that deal as a baseline for any deal for the top pick if they possessed it. It's just like bloated NFL contracts - some mediocre player gets a big deal in a weak free agent market, and a year later, agents of a top player look at that and insist on more.
    39WillRunYaOva likes this.

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    But terrible or not, I'm sure all 31 of those GMs would insist on using that deal as a baseline for any deal for the top pick if they possessed it. It's just like bloated NFL contracts - some mediocre player gets a big deal in a weak free agent market, and a year later, agents of a top player look at that and insist on more.
    Indeed. And if the Rams are that 1 in 31, I just hope they can find a team that will consider it a valid baseline.

    Personally, if I was a GM looking for the Rams/Colts #1 pick and they came at me with the "Palmer Standard", I would have to laugh in their face. But in this day and age, there's probably a team that is so sold on Luck that they will accept the Palmer Standard as the baseline.

    Or at least I hope so.....if the Rams wind up with the pick.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    I actually started a thread like this on 10/2/2011 when the Rams were 0-4 and asked about what the Rams should do if they have the first pick in the 2012 draft. The options in the thread were to take Andrew Luck, take another player, or trade the pick. I few posters on this board thought it was a ridicules thread to start and that it was no way the Rams would have the first pick in the 2012 draft. Now that the possibility for picking first may be a reality. If the rams receive the first pick in the 2012 draft the new front office of the Rams should listen to all offers and trade the pick to the highest bidder. Andre Luck will not be the answer for the Rams. The Rams top needs are left OT, DB's that can cover somebody, and a go to WRs because I do not believe Lloyd will be back with Rams because his man crush Josh McDaniels, will be let go when hopefully Devaney, Spagnuolo, and Flajole are all fired. Go Rams.

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Eli Manning maybe a better comparison as to Luck's value then Palmer... Reading this article I'm thinking the value of the pick is three first rounds picks. The best team to trade with would be the Browns, considering they have two first round picks in this upcoming draft.


    Peter King of Sports Illustrated, along with veteran NFL personnel man Ernie Accorsi, came up what it might take to trade up for Luck.

    I think three first-round picks for the first selection in the 2012 draft is more than fair if the team that earns that right is in a dealing mood. One of those picks would have to be in the top 10 of the 2012 draft. "If he's as good as everyone says he is, absolutely it's a realistic price,'' Accorsi said.

    As King points out, Accorsi essentially gave up two firsts, a third- and a fifth-round pick to trade for Eli Manning. With Luck considered to be in a higher class than Manning, the cost could be as high as three first-round picks.

    Star-divide

    That again is why it's reasonable to come up with a team more suitable than the Cleveland Browns to trade up for Luck. Right now, the Browns currently have the 10th pick in the first round, and the 17th which comes from the Atlanta Falcons from the Julio Jones trade. If current Browns quarterback Colt McCoy continues to play as he has this season, that 10th pick could end up being much higher.

    The trade would be attractive for the Rams because they could double dip in the first round and theoretically get an extra pick in 2013. The Browns also have an extra fourth-round pick in 2012 that could sweeten up the deal. The Rams could parlay the two first-round picks into an offensive tackle and cornerback.

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Eli Manning maybe a better comparison as to Luck's value then Palmer... Reading this article I'm thinking the value of the pick is three first rounds picks. The best team to trade with would be the Browns, considering they have two first round picks in this upcoming draft.
    Assuming Holmgren has the Luck man-crush virus that has afflicted so many lately. Maybe he does......hopefully he does.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Eli Manning maybe a better comparison as to Luck's value then Palmer...
    Valid point. And let's keep in mind that the Giants gave all that up essentially to move from the fourth pick to the first. And Luck, IMO, is a better prospect than Eli. I think some package of three-plus first rounders (or the equivalent value in other picks/players) will get a deal done.

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Assuming Holmgren has the Luck man-crush virus that has afflicted so many lately. Maybe he does......hopefully he does.
    Actually considering the fact that Holmgren tried to trade up in the '10 draft to get Sam it is very possible that he would still be very interested in acquiring him should the Rams choose to go in that direction.

    And with two first round picks he could trade just one of them and maybe some other consideration for Brads, and the Browns could then reunite Sam with Pat Shurmer.

    It is still very early in the process but this is a scenario that could come to the fore in due time....

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    This is why I say to the people that trading away Bradford and taking Luck is not in the Rams best interest. Look all the bad scenarios I pointed out before the season about the Rams possibly having a horrindous season and possibly having to fire the staff all came true. So we could possibly be seeing Bradford in his third system in as many years. However, Bradford is a good quarterback and if we do indeed get the first pick taking Luck is a setback in my opinion. If we keep Bradford and get the Browns two first round picks. That is two starters this team gets right away. At the least major contributers. If we trade Bradford and select Luck we only get 1 first round pick this year which is what we already have unless the Browns wanted Bradford. If the Browns want Bradford though they may not give up 2 first round picks this year to get him. I have a Ryan Leaf feeling about Luck, I dont know why but I do. I would rather see us keep Bradford and be able to stock pile a bunch of picks. Of course all of this hinges on the Colts beating the Jags which might be too much to ask but I want the rams to get the 1st pick. I also do not want to see RG3 in a Rams uniform either, I dont think he will be good. However people have Mike Vick sensations about this guy which is why there is so much hype.
    Just Fix It

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    Re: If we get the first pick int he draft???

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Actually considering the fact that Holmgren tried to trade up in the '10 draft to get Sam it is very possible that he would still be very interested in acquiring him should the Rams choose to go in that direction.

    And with two first round picks he could trade just one of them and maybe some other consideration for Brads, and the Browns could then reunite Sam with Pat Shurmer.

    It is still very early in the process but this is a scenario that could come to the fore in due time....
    I would have to consider... trading Bradford drafting Luck and getting the browns two first round draft picks this year 5th and a top 25.

    Or the Browns can have the first pick and send the Rams their two first round picks this year one next year and a two and third rd pick splashed in there somewhere...

    Come on Colts!

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