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Thread: JD Clowney anyone?

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Another example: The Houston Texans.

    They had the first pick of a draft in Mario Williams, a 2nd rounder in Connor Barwin who had just come off 11.5 sacks, they had a 2nd rounder in Brooks Reed who had come off 6.0 sacks playing sparingly, and they STILL spent a first round pick on OLB Whitney Mercilus.

    Fast forward a few years and Mario Williams and Connor Barwin aren't even there anymore.



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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Another example: The Houston Texans.

    They had the first pick of a draft in Mario Williams, a 2nd rounder in Connor Barwin who had just come off 11.5 sacks, they had a 2nd rounder in Brooks Reed who had come off 6.0 sacks playing sparingly, and they STILL spent a first round pick on OLB Whitney Mercilus.

    Fast forward a few years and Mario Williams and Connor Barwin aren't even there anymore.

    Pretty sure that Mario was already gone when they picked Mercilus... with the 26th pick in the draft.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    We certainly should be looking at Clowney, especially since we just lost Chris Long to two torn knee ligaments.


    No, no, wait....that wasn't Chris Long, that was Jake Long.

    With a gaping hole at LT and a top notch LT prospect staring us in the face, we're talking about drafting a DE? Really?

    Maybe Clowney is Julius Peppers. Maybe Clowney is Vernon Gholston. But either way, he is NOT a Left Tackle, which is what this team needs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Another example: The Houston Texans.

    They had the first pick of a draft in Mario Williams, a 2nd rounder in Connor Barwin who had just come off 11.5 sacks, they had a 2nd rounder in Brooks Reed who had come off 6.0 sacks playing sparingly, and they STILL spent a first round pick on OLB Whitney Mercilus.

    Fast forward a few years and Mario Williams and Connor Barwin aren't even there anymore.
    Whitney Mercilus was the second overall pick in 2012? Weird, I don't remember that.

    It's as if you're just ignoring the point being made. I'm not suggesting that luxury picks don't happen at all. I'm suggesting they don't happen with the second overall pick.

    Providing examples of times when teams made luxury picks with other selections that aren't the second overall pick does nothing to counter that point.
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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Whitney Mercilus was the second overall pick in 2012? Weird, I don't remember that.

    It's as if you're just ignoring the point being made. I'm not suggesting that luxury picks don't happen at all. I'm suggesting they don't happen with the second overall pick.

    Providing examples of times when teams made luxury picks with other selections that aren't the second overall pick does nothing to counter that point.
    This is where the disconnect is. IMO it doesn't matter whether it's the #2 pick, especially because we have TWO first rounders. Even take a look at the Browns, they had just signed OLB Paul Kruger andhad another good pass rusher in OLB Jabaal Sheard, and yet with their 6th overall pick this past year they happily took OLB Barkevious Mingo.

    The NFL lives and dies by their board. Need is obviously a factor too, but at the end of the day if a prospect is the highest rated on their board, they'll stick with him. Many tore the Jets apart for taking a guy like Sheldon Richardson yet he's been excellent, and I'm sure they're ecstatic they made the pick.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post

    This is where the disconnect is. IMO it doesn't matter whether it's the #2 pick, especially because we have TWO first rounders. Even take a look at the Browns, they had just signed OLB Paul Kruger andhad another good pass rusher in OLB Jabaal Sheard, and yet with their 6th overall pick this past year they happily took OLB Barkevious Mingo.

    The NFL lives and dies by their board. Need is obviously a factor too, but at the end of the day if a prospect is the highest rated on their board, they'll stick with him. Many tore the Jets apart for taking a guy like Sheldon Richardson yet he's been excellent, and I'm sure they're ecstatic they made the pick.
    Richardson did not put an excellent player on the bench.

    And yes... it does matter that we're talking about the second pick in the draft.
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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Whitney Mercilus was the second overall pick in 2012? Weird, I don't remember that.

    It's as if you're just ignoring the point being made. I'm not suggesting that luxury picks don't happen at all. I'm suggesting they don't happen with the second overall pick.

    Providing examples of times when teams made luxury picks with other selections that aren't the second overall pick does nothing to counter that point.
    With all due respect Nick, I am not a fan at all of this term "luxury pick" the Clowney vs. Mathews thing is back to the good old annual debate at ClanRam BPA vs. NEED.

    I do not know how you have him graded but I think Clowney is significantly better than any other DL in the draft...Also I think he falls into the Andrew Luck, Ndamukong Suh, RG3 class of elite prospects that do not come often

    A player with this much potential outweighs NEED; remember Taylor Lewan is still a good Tackle prospect and also yes Jake LOng went down but our biggest need on the Oline is Center and guard pending on Saffold's UFA status. So i would not be surprised if the Rams dont select a single OT and just focus on the interior Oline

    Going BPA should not be considered a "luxury pick" we are a team fighting in a tough division we need to keep adding high caliber talent and that is exactly what Clowney wound give us

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    Even on a pure BPA analysis, I've yet to see any compelling argument for Clowney over Matthews.
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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    This is where the disconnect is. IMO it doesn't matter whether it's the #2 pick
    And IMO it absolutely does, an opinion supported by the lack of examples of other teams making that kind of pick that high in the draft. We'll have to agree to disagree here.


    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Even take a look at the Browns, they had just signed OLB Paul Kruger andhad another good pass rusher in OLB Jabaal Sheard, and yet with their 6th overall pick this past year they happily took OLB Barkevious Mingo.
    We already hashed out the Browns example three weeks ago when talking about adding Barr; this offseason is going to get tiring very quickly if the same poor examples keep getting trotted out.

    The Browns signed Kruger to a big starter-type deal, but Sheard was a holdover from a previous regime and was a big question mark transitioning to a 3-4 defense, so much so that there were rumors he was on the trade block that offseason. Mingo was a great fit for the defense and is going to make Sheard either a back-up or entirely expendable.

    This isn't comparable at all to the Rams' situation, where they have two established high quality starters and a quality back-up already in place who all fit a scheme that isn't changing.


    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    With all due respect Nick, I am not a fan at all of this term "luxury pick"
    I'm sorry to hear that...? Sorry, I don't really know what else to say to that. It's a phrase that's pretty common in draft discussions and reporting.


    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    I do not know how you have him graded but I think Clowney is significantly better than any other DL in the draft...Also I think he falls into the Andrew Luck, Ndamukong Suh, RG3 class of elite prospects that do not come often
    He's the best DL prospect in this class, but as for being among the "once in a ______" prospects, I'm honestly not so sure. His physical tools absolutely qualify, but fair or not, I have questions about his intangibles.


    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    Going BPA should not be considered a "luxury pick"
    It absolutely is when that BPA plays a position that is arguably the strongest one on your existing roster.
    Last edited by Nick; -12-29-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    still don't know how some argue that clowney wouldn't be a luxury pick...

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Richardson did not put an excellent player on the bench.

    And yes... it does matter that we're talking about the second pick in the draft.
    I love Chris Long, but in no way would I consider him an excellent player. He's a very good player though, and I'd much rather trade the Clowney pick than have the Rams draft him

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Again, there is a reason that Miller was inserted into Denver' starting line-up from Day One; had he been a luxury pick, that wouldn't have happened because he would have been sharing time as a situational player behind other established players at the position.
    Ok, I got it. Best example...Reggie Bush going second overall in 2006. The Saints already had an established RB on their roster in Deuce McAllister (who was arguably their best player before Drew Brees arrived that off season). Bush was not a starter from Day One and he was behind the established McAllister, so....luxury pick? If you argue they got Reggie on the field primarily on punt returns I'll laugh because that would be the equivalent of Clowney getting mixed in on clear passing downs. I think this is the best example anyone can come up with and it's at second overall nonetheless.

    That's the type of dilemma the Rams could be faced with here. Just like Bush was the overwhelming BPA in 2006, Clowney might be that this year for the Rams. If he blows up the combine the chants for Jadeveon to be a Ram will only grow louder but they could also increase the trade interest in our pick as well. I'm ELATED the Redskins were able to lose out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post

    I love Chris Long, but in no way would I consider him an excellent player. He's a very good player though, and I'd much rather trade the Clowney pick than have the Rams draft him
    Long is among the league leaders in sacks, pressures and QB hits over the past several seasons.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    I don't know how anyone watching this Seattle game could possibly say we should draft another defensive end over an offensive lineman. I don't care how good Clowney is if we can't run the ball and protect the QB we'll be 7-9 again next year.
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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
    Ok, I got it. Best example...Reggie Bush going second overall in 2006.
    That's probably the best comparison you're going to find in recent history, so let's examine it.

    When the Saints selected Bush, they already had McAllister. Entering the 2006 season, McAllister was two years removed from his last Pro Bowl, had just turned 27 in December, and only played in five games that season because he tore his ACL, leaving his future effectiveness slightly unclear.

    Compare that to the Rams, who already have Pro Bowler Robert Quinn having the best year of his career, a starter in Chris Long who a few believe has slipped but still is an effective player and team leader, and a quality back-up to spell them in William Hayes who was just resigned this offseason, I believe.

    While I agree that the Saints's pick of Reggie Bush in 2006 is probably the closest you're going to find to a team using a second overall pick on a luxury selection, I think it goes without saying that the Saints' situation at RB that year was no where near as strong to the Rams' situation at DE right now.

    Look, I don't think we're making any headway here. Either you think Clowney is a realistic option for the Rams' second overall pick or you don't. I don't see it happening, but I've certainly been wrong before. We'll see what happens in May.

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