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Thread: JD Clowney anyone?

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    2 TDs per game and about an INT every other game. I'll take that over any QB in the draft this year, all day. And unlike Romo, Sam has never found a way to blow close games. Also, don't forget Sam did this WITHOUT any semblance of a rushing attack. For a one dimensional offense, those numbers look quite good.
    Well, you actually have to be in close games to blow them. Just to throw out some more random stats, Football Outsiders has him at 19th in Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement (DYAR), 14th in Defense-adjusted Value Over Average (DVOA; rated 5% over average), and 26th in QBR (that weird stat ESPN uses).

    My main point here isn't to be negative about Bradford, though. I'm just saying that regardless of what Fisher says right now, I don't think we can automatically assume that we wouldn't use an early pick on a quarterback. First choice is probably Matthews or trade down, but I would think QB would still be in the mix--especially compared to using a top 10 pick on a DE.


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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    He did nothing to win me over in the 2nd quarter. I wasn't able to actually sit down and watch the 1st quarter.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    He did nothing to win me over in the 2nd quarter. I wasn't able to actually sit down and watch the 1st quarter.
    I don't completely disagree with this.

    Clowney had some nice pass rush moments near the end of the 2nd quarter. Great swim move to get through the tackle and guard to pressure the Wis QB, and earlier in the 1st quarter he had a nice TFL on a play when he was surprisingly unblocked and got to show off his backside speed.

    Having said that, I think Josh Liskiewitz, who works with Russ Lande at GM Jr Scouting, made some nice observations on Twitter about Clowney in this game in that he's getting upright too often and takes himself out of plays by doing so. It's caused him to be neutralized for much of the game, even against single blocks by the LT and TE Jacob Pedersen at times.

    It was also kind of funny to watch the announcers and some on Twitter trip over themselves about how Clowney was quadruple teamed on one play, when really he was only doubled and then shoved into two other people. Ridiculous to imply that Wisconsin assigned four guys to block him on a play like that, but there's no denying that he's getting extra attention and I don't think SC has done a great job taking advantage of that this game.

    Wisconsin is playing him very well and doesn't seem to be having much trouble with him, all things considered. I'm hoping to see more from him in the second half. This first have has been fine but not the kind of half you want to point to if you're trying to defend the hype.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    I really feel sorry for anyone taking Clowney. He will go so high in the draft and get lots of money.

    He doesn't have the feeling that he will give you 100% on and off the field. He doesn't have that it factor anymore....It could be injury, or just lack of chemistry on the field.

    I think his pro game is limited to a 3-4 rusher only......Obviously, he has great natural ability but there hasn't been to many plays were he stands out

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Wisconsin is playing him very well and doesn't seem to be having much trouble with him, all things considered. I'm hoping to see more from him in the second half. This first have has been fine but not the kind of half you want to point to if you're trying to defend the hype.
    I have seen them do a great job vs him. They continue to run at him with success. They've even passed to his side of the field to take him out of the game. I have seen him get stood up like you mention a lot this year. Sorry but a great pass rusher continually gets upright like that and is taken out of plays far too often. Again I wasn't watching the 1st quarter for that TFL but the second and early third weren't very impressive to me.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I have seen them do a great job vs him. They continue to run at him with success. They've even passed to his side of the field to take him out of the game. I have seen him get stood up like you mention a lot this year. Sorry but a great pass rusher continually gets upright like that and is taken out of plays far too often. Again I wasn't watching the 1st quarter for that TFL but the second and early third weren't very impressive to me.
    He was just single blocked on a key third down pass play and was easily corralled around the QB and out of the play. South Carolina still got a sack from others on the play, but I was surprised Clowney didn't try a counter move there against the LT.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    Well, you actually have to be in close games to blow them. Just to throw out some more random stats, Football Outsiders has him at 19th in Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement (DYAR), 14th in Defense-adjusted Value Over Average (DVOA; rated 5% over average), and 26th in QBR (that weird stat ESPN uses).
    Well lets hear some football outsider numbers about our running game when Bradford was QB, then ill draw my conclusions from these stats. Because I know how important a run game is to any sustainable offense.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    He hasn't been great but he hasn't played horrible either; it does seem like he's being blocked one-on-one too easily though. I do think he's making more of a positive impact in this game than Mike Evans did yesterday

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    Well lets hear some football outsider numbers about our running game when Bradford was QB, then ill draw my conclusions from these stats. Because I know how important a run game is to any sustainable offense.
    Lets not forget that Sam had Steven Jackson for the majority of his career, and he was a pretty good back. Let's look at Andrew Luck and what he's working with: horrible O-line, crap RB's, average WR's and TE's (besides Wayne, who's been hurt all year), below-average defense, yet he's made it to the playoffs twice in two years. Sooner or later Bradford is going to run out of excuses, and I think next year is his last year to prove to the team and they're fans that he's our starting QB for the future. I'd hold off on drafting a QB early in this year's draft, but I'd definitely draft one in the mid or late rounds.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    Lets not forget that Sam had Steven Jackson for the majority of his career, and he was a pretty good back. Let's look at Andrew Luck and what he's working with: horrible O-line, crap RB's, average WR's and TE's (besides Wayne, who's been hurt all year), below-average defense, yet he's made it to the playoffs twice in two years. Sooner or later Bradford is going to run out of excuses, and I think next year is his last year to prove to the team and they're fans that he's our starting QB for the future. I'd hold off on drafting a QB early in this year's draft, but I'd definitely draft one in the mid or late rounds.
    True and look at the line he had with SJax. That's one thing always said is it's sad we never gave SJax a line to run behind.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    Lets not forget that Sam had Steven Jackson for the majority of his career, and he was a pretty good back. Let's look at Andrew Luck and what he's working with: horrible O-line, crap RB's, average WR's and TE's (besides Wayne, who's been hurt all year), below-average defense, yet he's made it to the playoffs twice in two years. Sooner or later Bradford is going to run out of excuses, and I think next year is his last year to prove to the team and they're fans that he's our starting QB for the future. I'd hold off on drafting a QB early in this year's draft, but I'd definitely draft one in the mid or late rounds.
    I wouldn't disagree that next year is a very important year for him, but the notion that he needs excuses is hilarious. His organization backs him and he's had a solid career on the field besides the Mcdaniels debacle. Also, I'm not going to make decisions about my QB based on Andrew Lucks success/failures.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Clowney had a better second half I think, really made his presence felt with a couple of key pass deflections. But I think he finished the day with only one TFL and one QB pressure, which again goes back to the whole point about why a guy with his "once in a decade" type of talent isn't finishing or getting on the stat sheet more.

    Yes, double teams account for some of it, but Wisconsin seemed to have him handled more often than you'd like with single blocks by the LT and even the TE on an island against him at times. The Badgers coach their blockers well, that's for sure, but those are situations he should be taking advantage of. I believe the LT he was going up against for most of the game was a three-star sophomore, and tight end Jacob Pedersen is a projected Day Three pick.

    Ultimately, while Clowney certainly had some moments and showed off the elite talent that everyone agrees he's in possession of, I don't think he changed any opinions with this performance.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    Lets not forget that Sam had Steven Jackson for the majority of his career, and he was a pretty good back. Let's look at Andrew Luck and what he's working with: horrible O-line, crap RB's, average WR's and TE's (besides Wayne, who's been hurt all year), below-average defense, yet he's made it to the playoffs twice in two years. Sooner or later Bradford is going to run out of excuses, and I think next year is his last year to prove to the team and they're fans that he's our starting QB for the future. I'd hold off on drafting a QB early in this year's draft, but I'd definitely draft one in the mid or late rounds.
    Yeah, I mean we could speculate all day. Would a balanced running game have improved Sam's stats? Maybe. Maybe the defense would be stacking the box, allowing Sam more time to throw deeper balls to improve that yards/attempt number. Or maybe it would also mean that Sam would throw less often--especially in the red zone--because we would be running the ball more, meaning that game results would be better but Sam's TD and yardage numbers would be lower.

    At the end of the day, the question I'm asking myself isn't whether I like Sam Bradford; it's what is it going to take for us to knock off teams like the Seahawks and ***** on the way to a championship. This year, he would have been third in quarterback ranking in the NFC West behind two guys who also bring a scrambling ability to the table that he does not. So even if we can say he's a good quarterback, is that good enough for the Rams to be a playoff contender within the next year or two or three? Would we have really been a playoff team in this division this year with a healthy Sam given the strength of the competition? Would shoring up the line be enough to put us over the top with Sam at the helm? Would drafting an elite d-lineman like Clowney to make the defense overwhelmingly good offset inadequacies on offense? If not, we've got to be thinking about what it would really take to get to that level.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    I wouldn't disagree that next year is a very important year for him, but the notion that he needs excuses is hilarious. His organization backs him and he's had a solid career on the field besides the Mcdaniels debacle. Also, I'm not going to make decisions about my QB based on Andrew Lucks success/failures.
    Whether or not Sam needs the excuses, people are always there to have them ready for him. They talk about what he doesn't have around him rather than talk about what he does have. I believe that good QB's prove their worth by making the players around them better, much like Brady or Roethlisberger does for their respective team. However, I do agree that it's unfair of me to compare Sam to a player like Andrew Luck, who most draft experts considered the second highest ranked QB ever to come out of college… I just think that they both were thrown into similar circumstances by going to bad teams.

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    Re: JD Clowney anyone?


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